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SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA #722459
06/26/13 10:39 AM
06/26/13 10:39 AM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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In a 5-4 decision the Supreme court has stricken down the Defense of Marriage Act. This means gay couples who are married can get federal benefits. A huge win and a great decision imho. Now lets see what they do with Prop 8.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722465
06/26/13 11:04 AM
06/26/13 11:04 AM
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123JoeSchmo Offline
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A truly great day for America!! Great job Anthony Kennedy for being the deciding vote in striking this down


"Don't ever go against the family again. Ever"- Michael Corleone
Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: 123JoeSchmo] #722466
06/26/13 11:06 AM
06/26/13 11:06 AM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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In American history where there is a battle between the status quo and more progressive ideas, the progressive ideas always win out. It has happened again.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722467
06/26/13 11:12 AM
06/26/13 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
In American history where there is a battle between the status quo and more progressive ideas, the progressive ideas always win out. It has happened again.


This is a great victory for all in favor of marriage equality amongst consenting adults, and is proof that we live in a progressive nation.


"Growing up my dad was like 'You have a great last name, Galifianakis. Galifianakis...begins with a gal...and ends with a kiss...' I'm like that's great dad, can we get it changed to 'Galifianafuck' please?" -- Zach Galifianakis



Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: XDCX] #722469
06/26/13 11:18 AM
06/26/13 11:18 AM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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Makes me proud to be an American


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722471
06/26/13 11:37 AM
06/26/13 11:37 AM
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ronnierocketAGO Offline
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The Prop 8 suit was also dismissed, so SSM is now legal in California again.

I actually kinda admire that they didn't go for a sweeping broad decision on either case like the SCOTUS at its worst can be at times. It's aware of the momentum behind an issue and applied reasonable judicial restraint without overreaching.

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722475
06/26/13 12:11 PM
06/26/13 12:11 PM
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East Tennessee
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ronnierocketAGO Offline
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Type in "Gay" at Google and see what easter egg pops up. LOL

D.C. churches ringing bells for gay marriage

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post...log-entry-48985

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722477
06/26/13 12:14 PM
06/26/13 12:14 PM
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ronnierocketAGO Offline
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This is classic.

Mike Huckabee tweeted this:

Quote:
My thoughts on the SCOTUS ruling that determined that same sex marriage is okay: "Jesus wept."


Gay activist Dan Savage replied:

Quote:
And so did I, Mike.

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #722478
06/26/13 12:18 PM
06/26/13 12:18 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
This is classic.

Mike Huckabee tweeted this:

Quote:
My thoughts on the SCOTUS ruling that determined that same sex marriage is okay: "Jesus wept."





I catch a little of Huckabee's radio show every week. I will definitely tune in today in about 40 minutes.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722480
06/26/13 12:23 PM
06/26/13 12:23 PM
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olivant Offline
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As I usually caution about SCOTUS rulings, read the fine print and also what those rulings don't say. I just read about the DOMA ruling on the CNN site. It states that the Court overturned DOMA. No it didn't. It's opinion applies only to the federal recognition of same sex marriages in states where same sex marriage is legal.

As far as I can tell, it did not rule as unconstitutional that portion of the Act that allows states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages performed under the laws of other states.

So, be careful.

Last edited by olivant; 06/26/13 12:25 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: olivant] #722486
06/26/13 12:40 PM
06/26/13 12:40 PM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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You are correct Oli, however the application of Federal benefits to gay couples married in one state and then moving to another would ingerently create an equal protection issue down the road.

With the decision in Prop 8, as I read it everything gets kicked down to the District Court that first held it unconsitiutional, thus allowing gay marriage in California.

As more states adopt gay marriage the harder it will be for the court to duck what they avoided today, which was probably a concession to Kennedy.

The corner has been turned.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #722487
06/26/13 12:45 PM
06/26/13 12:45 PM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
This is classic.

Mike Huckabee tweeted this:

Quote:
My thoughts on the SCOTUS ruling that determined that same sex marriage is okay: "Jesus wept."


Gay activist Dan Savage replied:


Quote:
And so did I, Mike.



Weep all you want. Lex lex est.

Anyway you wont have to weep long. Afer all Glenn Beck has promised to reveal something that was going to blow up the whole system. Oh I forgot that was supposed to happen yesterday. Ah well, maybe there's some apocalypse comet out there, or perhaps a natural disaster that can be blamed on these decisions. The deluded will always be among us.


BTW read your ACTS of Apostles, especially the passages from Peter where he says people should ignore old rituals and laws and act OUT.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722492
06/26/13 01:12 PM
06/26/13 01:12 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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Okay, I just heard Huckabee's intro remarks on the SCOTUS DOMA decision. I'm so disappointed. He opined that old, stale argument that the Court should not have even heard a case about legislation passed by the Congress and signed by the President. He also referred to the 5 justices who signed the majority opinion as rogue. Madonne!


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: olivant] #722497
06/26/13 01:27 PM
06/26/13 01:27 PM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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LOL a majority of the supreme court is "rogue." These people will say anything.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722510
06/26/13 02:13 PM
06/26/13 02:13 PM
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afsaneh77 Offline
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Quote:
"Doma writes inequality into the entire United States Code," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in the ruling.


So how about that quote? Isn't it a hint that if a case were to be heard based on equal protection clause that gay marriage would be recognized as constitutional?


"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: afsaneh77] #722515
06/26/13 02:25 PM
06/26/13 02:25 PM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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Possible, but he doesn't go quite that far. Doesn't have to.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722516
06/26/13 02:25 PM
06/26/13 02:25 PM
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So-Cal
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Good for them. If they want to be miserable too, why not?


Frank Costello: Fucking rats. It's wearing me thin. Mr. French: Francis, it's a nation of fucking rats.
Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: afsaneh77] #722530
06/26/13 02:54 PM
06/26/13 02:54 PM
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted By: afsaneh77
Quote:
"Doma writes inequality into the entire United States Code," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in the ruling.


So how about that quote? Isn't it a hint that if a case were to be heard based on equal protection clause that gay marriage would be recognized as constitutional?


No. Court opinions are largely a function of the litigants' arguments and precedent. Predicting outcomes is a precarious business.

Last edited by olivant; 06/26/13 02:55 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722561
06/26/13 05:39 PM
06/26/13 05:39 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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It only took the U.S. president and the Governor of California refusing to do their duty to represent their jurisdictions, and 5 corrupt Supreme Court justices, to change the definition of marriage; despite this being decided long ago in relation to polygamy.

Obama's comments particularly made me sick. Funny how he has such of change of heart after he's safely in his second term. And it's funny how not one of the liberal hacks on this board have said one word about it. Or about Clinton's flip flop, for that matter.

That said, I can live with the DOMA decision because it should be left up to the states. Therein, however, the Supreme Court is again being hypocritical. They strike down DOMA because New York state law needed to be respected in the plaintiff's case. And yet they turn right around and snub the will of the people in California with their Prop 8 non-decision. Which, in turn, was originally snubbed by a gay judge. Conflict of interest, anyone?

Hide and watch. Now the judiciary will attempt to overrule each state's right to ban gay marriage. And they'll start by trying to force those states to recognize gay marriages that have taken place in other states. This is how our Constitution will come to "hang by a thread" - through corrupt lawyers and judges. For now, I'm grateful to live in a state like Utah where degeneracy isn't enshrined and wickedness celebrated.


"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" - Isaiah 5:20


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722598
06/26/13 09:03 PM
06/26/13 09:03 PM
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ronnierocketAGO Offline
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Speaking of random alliances I never thought I would ever see, the ACLU has hired former Dubya advisor/McCain campaign manager Steve Schmidt to lead a $10 million effort to bring Republicans into the pro-SSM fold.

http://www.aclu.org/lgbt-rights/aclu-hires-steve-schmidt-bring-republicans-same-sex-marriage-push

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: IvyLeague] #722632
06/27/13 12:49 AM
06/27/13 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
And yet they turn right around and snub the will of the people in California with their Prop 8 non-decision. Which, in turn, was originally snubbed by a gay judge. Conflict of interest, anyone?


I don't think it's a conflict of interest any more than if a devoutly religious judge ruled against gay marriage based solely on his or her religious beliefs, although I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with that, hm?


"Growing up my dad was like 'You have a great last name, Galifianakis. Galifianakis...begins with a gal...and ends with a kiss...' I'm like that's great dad, can we get it changed to 'Galifianafuck' please?" -- Zach Galifianakis



Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722668
06/27/13 08:36 AM
06/27/13 08:36 AM
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fathersson Offline
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
LOL a majority of the supreme court is "rogue." These people will say anything.



No, put as some will point out- they are not voted in by the people. Like you said before...about replacing some others with ones that feel the same was you do to get the rulings that you want.

Confrimation by a select few, with deals and everything else done behind closed doors make the system even more upstetting by many.

and this passed by one vote, so as always one vote could have turned it either way. But no matter which way it went half the people would be upset.

Lets watch and see how they untangle all this mess now. On all levels and combos that interwind.


ONLY gun owners have the POWER to PROTECT and PRESERVE our FREEDOM.
"...it is their (the people's) right and duty to be at all times armed" - Thomas Jefferson, June 5, 1824

Everyone should read. "HOW TO KILL A MOCKING BIRD"

CAUTION: This Post has not been approved by Don Cardi.

You really don't expect people to believe your shit do you?

Read: "The Daily Apple"- Telling America and the Gangster BB like it really is!
Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: fathersson] #722681
06/27/13 10:47 AM
06/27/13 10:47 AM
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klydon1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: fathersson
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
LOL a majority of the supreme court is "rogue." These people will say anything.



No, put as some will point out- they are not voted in by the people. Like you said before...about replacing some others with ones that feel the same was you do to get the rulings that you want.

Confrimation by a select few, with deals and everything else done behind closed doors make the system even more upstetting by many.

and this passed by one vote, so as always one vote could have turned it either way. But no matter which way it went half the people would be upset.

Lets watch and see how they untangle all this mess now. On all levels and combos that interwind.


The appointment of Supreme Court justices by the executive branch with confirmation by the legislative branch is part of the checks and balances designed to secure separation of powers. Moreover, the Framers recognized that an independent judiciary is necessary to safeguard constitutional rights, which would be opposed by the political majority.

The system is not the "behind closed doors," secretive process you imply. The decision is the result of federal litigation with testimony, a district court ruling and published opinion, followed by a Notice of Appeal that identifies basis for appeal, briefs submitted to the Circuit Court, an appellate decision, citing precedent, fact and Constitutional provisions, a petition to allow an appeal to SCOTUS with briefs a decision granting allowance of appeal, oral argument of the parties before the Court and a final published and read decision with dissent, all of which are done in the public. It doesn't get any more open than that.

If you want an elected Supreme Court, you deal with justiceswho receive large sums of money from nonprofits, who don't disclose their donors, and PACs.

As far as the 5-4 decision, keep in mind that the Heller case, which in 2008 found an individual right to own a firearm under the Second Amendment for the first time in American history, was a 5-4 decision. It's disengenuous to condemn the process only when it yields results, with which you don't agree.

And keep in mind that the DOMA decision is limited in scope. The federal government must recognize the valid marriages of its states. It does not make a broad, sweeping proclamation making gay marriage the law of the land.

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: klydon1] #722684
06/27/13 10:54 AM
06/27/13 10:54 AM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: klydon1
Originally Posted By: fathersson
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
LOL a majority of the supreme court is "rogue." These people will say anything.



No, put as some will point out- they are not voted in by the people. Like you said before...about replacing some others with ones that feel the same was you do to get the rulings that you want.

Confrimation by a select few, with deals and everything else done behind closed doors make the system even more upstetting by many.

and this passed by one vote, so as always one vote could have turned it either way. But no matter which way it went half the people would be upset.

Lets watch and see how they untangle all this mess now. On all levels and combos that interwind.


The appointment of Supreme Court justices by the executive branch with confirmation by the legislative branch is part of the checks and balances designed to secure separation of powers. Moreover, the Framers recognized that an independent judiciary is necessary to safeguard constitutional rights, which would be opposed by the political majority.

The system is not the "behind closed doors," secretive process you imply. The decision is the result of federal litigation with testimony, a district court ruling and published opinion, followed by a Notice of Appeal that identifies basis for appeal, briefs submitted to the Circuit Court, an appellate decision, citing precedent, fact and Constitutional provisions, a petition to allow an appeal to SCOTUS with briefs a decision granting allowance of appeal, oral argument of the parties before the Court and a final published and read decision with dissent, all of which are done in the public. It doesn't get any more open than that.

If you want an elected Supreme Court, you deal with justiceswho receive large sums of money from nonprofits, who don't disclose their donors, and PACs.

As far as the 5-4 decision, keep in mind that the Heller case, which in 2008 found an individual right to own a firearm under the Second Amendment for the first time in American history, was a 5-4 decision. It's disengenuous to condemn the process only when it yields results, with which you don't agree.

And keep in mind that the DOMA decision is limited in scope. The federal government must recognize the valid marriages of its states. It does not make a broad, sweeping proclamation making gay marriage the law of the land.



What is all this belly-aching about the Supremes being appointed and meeting in secret? This is the origiinal intent by the founding fathers. I thought conservatives loved original intent. I thought they believe it was handed to the founders on tablets by Jesus Himself confused

Now their ox is gored by a progressive decision on gay rights and they have their collective panties in a wad? mad


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: klydon1] #722685
06/27/13 10:57 AM
06/27/13 10:57 AM
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olivant Offline
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Thank you Kly. You stated it more eloquently and substantively than I could. Also, thank you for pointing out the Heller vote. There are plenty other 5/4 votes that SCOTUS critics wold be loathe to dispense with.

Here in Texas, the election of all judges except municipal judges is lamented because of just what you point out: their vulnerability to fianancial enticement by campaign donors and the influence upon their opinions by those donors. In fact, in the textbook I use for class it has a section that asks Is Justice for Sale in Texas?

And DT, yes, conservatives are so fond of original intent when it results in a pleasing Court opinion, but only then.


Last edited by olivant; 06/27/13 10:58 AM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
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Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: olivant] #722700
06/27/13 11:49 AM
06/27/13 11:49 AM
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dontomasso Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: olivant


Here in Texas, the election of all judges except municipal judges is lamented because of just what you point out: their vulnerability to fianancial enticement by campaign donors and the influence upon their opinions by those donors. In fact, in the textbook I use for class it has a section that asks Is Justice for Sale in Texas?




In Fla in 2012 there was a concerted effort to unseat two State Supreme Court Justices. I believe Koch money was involved. Fortunately it did not work. I have a good friend who is a circuit Court judge, running unopposed for re-election. He was advised to raise 100K just to scare off opposition. It is a crazy way to select judges.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722704
06/27/13 12:02 PM
06/27/13 12:02 PM
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Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Pennsylvania elects its common pleas, superior, and supreme court judges. We are presently short a supreme court judge as she is serving time after recently being sentenced for using state employees to campaign for her on the state payroll.

I once had an oral argument before the PA Supreme Court when one justice, who would later be removed from office for corruption, had accused a fellow justice in public of trying to kill him by running him over in a car. It was very bizarre as they were seated next to each other on the bench leaning away from each other.

These judges, once elected to a ten year term, run for retention. It's rare when a judge is not retained.

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: klydon1] #722717
06/27/13 12:48 PM
06/27/13 12:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline OP
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Judges are almost always retained because no one outside the legal community really knows who they are. Unless one commits a crime or some other dastardly thing, they are pretty much under the radar. Unfortunately there are many mediocre people on the bench.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722754
06/27/13 03:36 PM
06/27/13 03:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
ronnierocketAGO  Offline
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Electing judges as a concept is just baffling to me.

Re: SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN DOMA [Re: dontomasso] #722776
06/27/13 05:47 PM
06/27/13 05:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,595
fathersson Offline
Underboss
fathersson  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,595
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Originally Posted By: klydon1
Originally Posted By: fathersson
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
LOL a majority of the supreme court is "rogue." These people will say anything.



No, put as some will point out- they are not voted in by the people. Like you said before...about replacing some others with ones that feel the same was you do to get the rulings that you want.

Confrimation by a select few, with deals and everything else done behind closed doors make the system even more upstetting by many.

and this passed by one vote, so as always one vote could have turned it either way. But no matter which way it went half the people would be upset.

Lets watch and see how they untangle all this mess now. On all levels and combos that interwind.


The appointment of Supreme Court justices by the executive branch with confirmation by the legislative branch is part of the checks and balances designed to secure separation of powers. Moreover, the Framers recognized that an independent judiciary is necessary to safeguard constitutional rights, which would be opposed by the political majority.

The system is not the "behind closed doors," secretive process you imply. The decision is the result of federal litigation with testimony, a district court ruling and published opinion, followed by a Notice of Appeal that identifies basis for appeal, briefs submitted to the Circuit Court, an appellate decision, citing precedent, fact and Constitutional provisions, a petition to allow an appeal to SCOTUS with briefs a decision granting allowance of appeal, oral argument of the parties before the Court and a final published and read decision with dissent, all of which are done in the public. It doesn't get any more open than that.

If you want an elected Supreme Court, you deal with justiceswho receive large sums of money from nonprofits, who don't disclose their donors, and PACs.

As far as the 5-4 decision, keep in mind that the Heller case, which in 2008 found an individual right to own a firearm under the Second Amendment for the first time in American history, was a 5-4 decision. It's disengenuous to condemn the process only when it yields results, with which you don't agree.

And keep in mind that the DOMA decision is limited in scope. The federal government must recognize the valid marriages of its states. It does not make a broad, sweeping proclamation making gay marriage the law of the land.



What is all this belly-aching about the Supremes being appointed and meeting in secret? This is the origiinal intent by the founding fathers. I thought conservatives loved original intent. I thought they believe it was handed to the founders on tablets by Jesus Himself confused

Now their ox is gored by a progressive decision on gay rights and they have their collective panties in a wad? mad



Pleae take it easy DT we don't want you to have an attack. People do have a right to think and express how they think and feel, right or wrong as you well know from posting here long enough.

I personally understand what Klydon posted but that isn't going to help the people who don't understand the process or agree with their rulings. As I pointed out even you made the comment about getting a certain type on there for some people benifit did you not?
and what does your mad do to help for that matter? Attacking conservatives even.
Seems like your the one who may have to untwist your panties. lol and your super happy abut the ruling. confused so why get so upset?

This has been a very passionate subject for so many. Almost as bad as abortion talk.

Klydon - always a great job postering without the drama. Thanks

But lets face it, lets not ne navie Kay- There are always things happening behind the scenes. No has trust anymore. Just look at what has happened in the news these very days.


ONLY gun owners have the POWER to PROTECT and PRESERVE our FREEDOM.
"...it is their (the people's) right and duty to be at all times armed" - Thomas Jefferson, June 5, 1824

Everyone should read. "HOW TO KILL A MOCKING BIRD"

CAUTION: This Post has not been approved by Don Cardi.

You really don't expect people to believe your shit do you?

Read: "The Daily Apple"- Telling America and the Gangster BB like it really is!
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