I'm still confused about the whole situation. We're the Calabria mob involved at all or was it all within the family ? As far as I understand it was desjardins or whatever his name was trying to take the power from Vito Rizzuto. If that's true can somebody just explain to me briefly what happened and why is a non Italian that high up in the organisation?

To many theories out there. In Montreal before Rizzuto went away the Sicilians and Calabrians were all under one umbrella with equal stature but a Sicilian boss. The French people, Irish, Bikers, etc were all level playing field and they had a commission between the Irish mob, Italian Mon and Bikers. They all worked with street gangs. Very multicultural approach. So now its hard to tell whats really going on. Who split up and who is attacking the Rizzutos. The sides are blurred.

I don't know the situation well as I don't live in Canada, but from all the discussions on different forums the picture may be like this:

Joe Di Maulo conspired with his brother-in-law Raynald Desjardins and the former Bonanno boss Salvatore Montagna to take over the Rizzuto clan. So they killed Nick and some of his underlings while Vito was in prison. Later, they had a conflict within their own group and Desjardins had Montagna killed with either Di Maulo's or the Bonanno's permission (maybe both of them). Once Vito got out, he had Di Maulo killed and now is on top again. He also took revenge on Desjardins who is now in prison by killing his right-hand man Gaetan Gosselin.

As for Desjardins, he has a position in the mafia because his sister is Joe Di Maulo's wife. He is also rumored to be a made member even though not Italian, even though I don't know how true it is.

If I got something wrong, please correct me.

Dwalin,

You nailed it right on the head. The Arcuri's were part of that faction against Rizzuto as well.

Thanks guys, that cleared it up a bit. I mean what a tale of real Mafia power and betrayal...

Sounds about right! Although I doubt they got permission to take out Montagna...There had already been an attempt on Desjardin's life and he is definitely not made...So I'm assuming he thought it was Montagna and had to hit before he got hit...Desjardins must have wanted to be the boss and that's what started the rift or they just didn't want Montagna to be the boss and he was making a stink about it using his Bonnano position as reasoning...In the early 90's Police use to refer to those guys as the Rizzuto-Desjardins organization and most of Desjardins guy are French but then Desjardins went to jail and Rizzuto flourished...Desjardins was closer to Cotroni side as was Dimaulo but they were all paying up for year. Rizzuto SR must have wanted to wait for his son to get out and not give up any power thus the decision to take him out...Desjardins also had a beef with the Rizzutos because Arcadi approved a hit on a family member of his I think in 04-05.

By the way, does anybody know what was Di Maulo's official position? Capo, underboss etc?

Its hard to say who is boss, underboss, etc because in all evidence(video and audio of the Consenza Café) from Project Colisee it showed Rizzuto SR, Arcadi, Renda and Sollecito all splitting their earnings 5 ways(1 for Vito) as if they all had equal stature although it is widely thought that the Rizzutos were the head of the table. Why would they split 5 ways equally if they had the traditional structure. Rizzuto was on wire tap in the early 90's saying they have 20 something made guys and all of equal stature with no boss. So that being said I don't have the answer and its very hard to give an answer unless you are directly directly involved.

I doubt anyone in Canada is asking the Bonnanno's for permission about anything up there. It seems after George was killed the affiliation stopped being so friendly.

Great summary Dwalin, and good question about whether or not Desjardins is made. The Rizzuto's have worked with non-Italians for a long time, and I have wondered if they have elevated any of the non-Italians to "made status". It is impossible to know unless someone flips and tells us.



This is another questions that has me curious - what, if any, involvement do the Bonanno's have in Montreal. The whole Montagna thing makes one think that they were still involved. It also seems that since George was whacked, Montreal acted as its own family. My gut instinct is that the Bonanno's still had some minor involvement with the Rizzuto's, and when Montagna went to Montreal, the relations picked up. Now that Montagna is dead, my guess is there is little to no contact.

It suprises me how long this debate on whether Fernandez and Desjardins are made endures. Fernandez was a gorilla who talked and behaved loudly and his statements should be taken with a grain of salt.

There is a brittish guy made my the camorra.he gets a monthly stipend in jail and all.so it has happened at least 1time

I very much doubt Fernandez was a made guy, I highly doubt that Desjardins was made either. It would have came out in some way shape or form. I think Fernandez was running his mouth and he felt to comfortable out there maybe that's why he was murdered not to level power but because he was telling people he was made...Who knows, it could be anything but anyway .... I don't think Desjardin' position in the Mafia is because of his marriage. He was well established as a major player in Quebec. I think the marriage was more of a strategic alliance. Italian mafia is known to intertwine families with marriage and I think for Desjardins to be accepted in Italian circles and to sit at the table with the big boys he married in to it. He was closer to the Cotronis but Rizzuto being boss and Desjardins the biggest player in Quebec it only made sense they hooked up. Weather Desjardin married her or not he was major major smuggler but he needed the international reach that the Rizzutos had to really play on the International stage. They use to refer to their organization as the Dejardins-Rizzuto organization in the early 90's. Desjardins went to prison and Rizzuto flourished, expanding in to Ontario with Desjardins muscle (Fernandez). Then in the 2000's while in prison a member of Desjardins family was murdered and rumor on the street is Arcadi ordered it. This started the rift that is playing out the war today...

Does anyone have the Rizzuto hierarchy?

Fernandez and Desjardins were made as evidenced by wiretaps of Fernandez's conversations with other Sicilian and Canadian mobsters before his death.

"One of his non-Italian inductees, Juan Ramon Fernandez, who was born in Spain and seen as his rock-ribbed, loyal henchman, was recently killed in Sicily, apparently because he was reluctant to choose sides in Montreal’s deadly Mafia war.
Another, Quebecer Raynald Desjardins, has been named as the architect of the rebellious faction that challenged the leadership of Mr. Rizzuto in Montreal, authorities allege.
The wiretaps were released to the National Post on Friday after a large police operation in Sicily that arrested 21 men on Wednesday.
They shed fascinating and unexpected light on the perplexing and deadly struggle for control of Canada’s underworld — a struggle that has claimed 20 lives — after police in Sicily monitored conversations between dozens of mobsters, including Canadians visiting and living in the birthplace of the Mafia.
Declaring that Mr. Rizzuto “makes the f–king rules” regardless of what Mafia bosses in Sicily thought, Mr. Fernandez asserted his right to sit at the table with other “men of honour.”
“Vito ‘made’ me and my compare, Raynald,” Mr. Fernandez is heard saying on a wiretap, a reference to being officially inducted into the Mafia, a right previously reserved for Italians.
“You’re not Italian,” said the surprised man he was speaking with.
“No, no. Me and my compare,” Mr. Fernandez insisted, were “made” men despite their lineage.
When faced with further disbelief, Mr. Fernandez, who was an intensely intimidating man, started bellowing.
“Show some respect. I sit at the right hand of God, that’s how close I am,” he said of his relationship with Mr. Rizzuto.
“But I thought that…” the man stammered back, apparently realizing the danger, his voice turning quiet and meek, “I just thought you couldn’t because you’re not Italian.”
Even though Mr. Fernandez spoke passionately about the power of Mr. Rizzuto and his affinity for him, he remained reluctant to rededicate his sword to the veteran mob boss in the underworld war for supremacy in Montreal, the wiretaps suggest."

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2013/05/montreal-godfather-vito-rizzuto.html

Thanks Dap, I was not aware of those wire transcripts.

I thought that tony magi and joseph ducarme had something to do with nick jr death.
Its kind of easier for vito rizutto because most of his enemies either killed each other, or are in jail at this point.

I think he just has a big mouth...I don't think that if he were a made guy that he would have to go to Italy and start telling people he was made...His boss would call and say he is a friend of ours and to treat him like so...its no shit he ended up dead. This guy was subject to countless wiretaps and undercover agents over years and years in Canada and not once was he ever referred to as a made guy or anyone who was treated as such. He was street muscle.

I think Magi and Joseph carried out the hit but I don't think they planned it or put the plot together. For them it was probably just a job with promises to advance themselves or something but those guys are not seen around Montreal anymore. They even shot at Magi's wife while she was driving a couple of blocks from his home. The arcuris went running. Di Maulo is dead as is Montagna. Desjardins is back in jail so yeah it looks you're right about it being pretty easy for Rizzuto right now. He still isn't done though, I'm predicting more blood shed before the dust settles.

i think ducarme is still in jail.

With all the bodies falling, I'm surprised that Magi is still standing. I assume he never leaves his house?

How many people are actually left though. Hes not coming back to what he built.

Also what has happened to greg wooley and his plans to unite some of the street gangs?
I hear hes a very powerful individual both on the inside and outside.

Do you think Vito will be satisfied with doing away with those who ordered Nick's murder or will he kill the hitmen also? Are there any theories about who the sniper who shot Nick was?

@Scorsese - Ducarme is out confirmed 100%. Word on the street hiding in his mansion about an hour outside Montreal. He was only in for parole violation. After his cousin Lamartine Severe Paul and Chenier Dupuy were murdered he lost a lot of backup. Those guys were his street bosses. Apparently Dupuy slapped Wooley at a summit to unite the street gangs then slapped out a member of Wooleys puppet club the Syndicate. They were both murdered shortly after. Wooley is a huge force inside and out. First black Hell's Memember and only got to get gangsterism charges twice in Canada. He is the charismatic leader type. I heard he has achieved his plan to unite the street gangs and took out his only obstacles. Lamartine and Chenier were huge underworld figures and to see them go scared a lot of street gang members from rebelling all they want really is to make money and with Wooley they will make the most. Wooley would have had a serious problem if he didn't take care of that quickly.

@mike68 - I heard Magi is out and about but minimally and with 6-7 bodyguards at all times in 2 armored SUV's. He has a lot of money through real estate and legal money. He was never known to do anything illegal really. He was partners with Rizzuto JR on many real estate developments.

@Dwalin2011 - I'm pretty sure the hitmen will get theres if they haven't already...

Rizzuto got hit hard because all his shot callers were in or still are in prison. His dad was practically retired and he was pushing his son towards more legit enterprises. You're talking guys like Francseco Del Balso, Lorenzo Giordano, Arcadi, Sollecito, and the list goes on. When all these guys get out in the next 2-3 years its going to be super mayhem because they all lost family and soldiers as well and they will also want their revenge. There is still a sleeping giant in Montreal.

That would make him too easy of a target. But then again Magi is apparantly also hiding in his personal bunker. Ironically these are the guys who haven't been shot yet. Maybe your own house really is the safest place to hide.



An indication of this are the two Bo-Gars who are detained for the murder of Gosselin. A third suspect was killed a month before their arrest and was said to be connected to Wooley. Wooley in turn is believed to be alligned with the Rizzuto family.

In the wider context of the conversation, Bravo says Vito makes the rules in the beginning and thus implying that the guys over in Italy were the ones to have initially inquired whether he was actually made or not and had the right to sit in discussions with other made guys. He wasnt the one to broach the topic which shows that the discussion that followed and his responses (unless he was bullshitting, unlikely you dont lie about that to other made guys especially in Sicily) are valid.

Sorry if my writing came out sounding like legalese, been reading some construction contracts all day that my lawyers sent over.

One one hand, Sal Vitale testified that after the murder of Sciascia back in the late 1990's, the Bonanno family and the Montreal faction severed ties. On the other hand, Rizzuto reportedly had a conversation where he said he refused to recognize Sal Montagna as his boss. This was when Montagna was acting boss in New York. So, there may still be some ties but not like it was in years past. And people can bring up Montagna getting involved in affairs in Montreal but he had been born in Canada and was only back there to begin with because he was deported.



The wiretap aside, I'd have to see more evidence to believe these non-Italians were made. How much power Rizzuto had isn't going to make these other guys automatically recognized by others.

Juan Joe Bravo Fernandez n Reynalds Desjardins r not "made men" in the official sense. They were the Meyer Lansky n Bugsy Siegel of The Montreal underworld in terms of their status, the respect they received n their direct connections to Vito n the Sicilian faction. They were as close to the seat of power, the inner circle n the top level operations within the crime family that any non-Italian associate was gonna get.

Fernandez was just puffing his chest, bragging, something he's known for. As far as the transcripts go, like so many situations that concern conversations n transcripts, they can be taken out of context n can be interpreted differently by individuals. Desjardins was close to Vito n his right-hand concerning drug n construction operations, n was the leader of the non-Italian/French-Canadian faction within the family. Fernandez was head of the Ontario operations for Vito, these were two high level non-Italian leaders, who commanded a great deal of respect n authority, but regardless if Vito were to "make" them, which he wouldnt bcuz the Rizzuto-Manno-Cammilleri-Renda clan were absolute Sicilian mafia traditionalists when it came to the traditions, rules n codes of Cosa Nostra (certainly not with business practises, lol). Nobody outside of the inner circle would have recognized them officially as "men of honor", especially not in Sicily.

I mentioned on the Joe Bravo hit post on how he n his associate were most likely hit exactly bcuz they were non-Sicilians n not "made men" n would not be trusted by the Bagheria clan after the big raid. The Bagheria clan members n others within Cosa Nostra would definitely give Fernandez n his right hand man Pimentel much respect n defer to Joe Bravo as a Vito Rizzuto "Representato." But the way I see it, the most likely scenario concerning the Fernandez n Pimentel murders was that they were not "men of honor", not even Sicilians n as soon as the 21 Cosa Nostra members were rounded up n the operation exposed, the leaders saw the two Spanish or Canadian transplants as a threat n they were ordered hit, the leaders sending the Bagheria clan members, the Scaduto brothers to do the job. Salvatore having operating in Toronto n associated with Fernandez n the Ontario Rizzuto faction in the past, thus he would be trusted by Fernandez. After the raid, the Scadutos probably set it up with the two Canadians to meet, playing like they wanted to being them up to speed on the situation n help them hide or get out of Sicily......n then.......Boom, they get whacked n "bruciato" to a crisp. So much for the "lupara bianca."

But once again, just my oinion...n as I stated before...we know what opinions are like! Lol

Sidenote - BTW, the answer to this question of "are they officially made men or regarded as men of honor" would be easy to answer if anybody has ever heard of either Fernandez or Desjardins as being introduced as "A Friend of Ours" or "A Friend of Mine" when being introduced known mafiosi.I wonder if they have anything that solid from past surveillance of the two mobsters over the years?

^^^^
LJS:

When the Italian-language articles first came out on May 8 (some may have been published on May 7), they mentioned that Fernandez and Pimentel were fugitives, being sought, etc., as these two were going to be arrested once caught and were going to be charged with certain offences -- just as the 21 others had been arrested and charged in Operazione Argo on May 7 or thereabouts.

Only one day after the articles were published did the revelation come out that Fernandez and Pimentel had very likely been killed on April 9 -- this predates the roundup of the 21 by four weeks.

Perhaps the Sicilians in Bagheria anticipated a roundup one month beforehand and collectively decided, for who knows what reasons, to eliminate Fernandez and Pimentel -- bear in mind that Carmelo Bartolone of Bagheria went missing in February and has not yet been found, so there might have been important background information about the internal dissent in Bagheria to which we are not privy. Or perhaps only a few of the Sicilians in Bagheria were in on the plot to kill Fernandez and Pimentel, regardless of whether orders came from Canada.

Fernandez could have had interaction with Pietro Scaduto (allegedly one of his killers) in the Montreal area in the 1990s or in the Toronto area in 2004 or both, as the latter was serving as a bodyguard and muscle for Michele Modica. Fernandez also could have had interaction with Salvatore Scaduto (also allegedly one of his killers) in the Montreal area in the 1990s.

Peter Scarcella, although at odds with Modica, could also have had interaction with Pietro Scaduto in the Toronto area in 2004. I sometimes forget that when Scarcella and others were charged a year after the California Sandwiches shootings in Toronto in 2004, he was not charged in relation to the 2004 attempted murders of Modica et al. because he apparently plotted to kill Modica after the 2004 incident.

The pentito who is also one of Fernandez and Pimentel's killers, Giuseppe Carbone, has claimed the Scaduto brothers were trying to wrest power in Bagheria after the murder of those two and that the brothers had a plan to kill Modica as soon as Modica got out of prison.

When you look at all the connections and interactions between Vito Rizzuto, Raynald Desjardins, Fernandez, Scarcella, Modica, the Scadutos, and the Carbones (Giuseppe Carbone's brother Andrea also acted as one of Modica's bodyguards in Toronto), you start to see there are many angles and theories as to how and why Fernandez and Pimentel were killed.

Little Joe Shots, check your PM's.