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May 27th, 2012
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Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #666924
09/20/12 01:35 PM
09/20/12 01:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 371
Wilson Offline
Capo
Wilson  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2012
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Instead of Hollywood releasing these movies that glorify the mob, how about releasing a movie about how the mob really is? It would be a really intense drama and I think that it would be good for everyone if a movie came out like this. Show a made guy having to miss out on holidays with his families or having to kill his best friend for the mob. Show him being treated like shit by his fellow associates.

Last edited by Wilson; 09/20/12 01:36 PM.
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Wilson] #666981
09/21/12 04:24 AM
09/21/12 04:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,252
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted By: Wilson
Instead of Hollywood releasing these movies that glorify the mob, how about releasing a movie about how the mob really is? It would be a really intense drama and I think that it would be good for everyone if a movie came out like this. Show a made guy having to miss out on holidays with his families or having to kill his best friend for the mob. Show him being treated like shit by his fellow associates.


Did you see Casino and Goodfellas ? You just described those two, and there are others, mostly low budget. Even The godfather which some say makes Mafia look good, had betrayals, even Fredo and Michael betraying each other.

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #667006
09/21/12 11:48 AM
09/21/12 11:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 885
Your Mom's House
Jimmy_Two_Times Offline
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Your Mom's House
You got that right Jace..I think the Sorpranos did a pretty good job not gilding the lilly in places as well... when Christopher got made he found out how hard it was to actually MAKE money to kick upstairs...

I don't know if that's all valid, but for me it would seem very likely that the life is not as glamorous as we were meant to believe at one point.

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Jimmy_Two_Times] #668803
10/04/12 04:42 PM
10/04/12 04:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 319
SEAN_SOUTH Offline
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One of the biggest mob myths is that it was 'the St. Valentine's Days Massacre' that finished Bugs Moran as a power in the Chicago underworld.

He held on and slayed many men that he felt betrayed him and he had strong alliances in St. Louis too. The St. Valentine's Day Massacre hit was a big setback but the reality is that Bugs Moran held onto North Side territory and it was only law enforcement's insistence on hounding him out of town that eventually made his reign in the Chicago underworld untenable.

He actually outlived Capone, had a fearsome reputation as a bank robber and was well aligned with all the big hitters in that era who plyed their trade so famously in the 30's, Dillinger of course foremost amongst the most legendary names but there were many others too.

George Bugs Moran also attempted to infiltrate the LA underworld and again it was his only his status as "Public Enenmy Number One" that prevented him from doing so.

Years later there was an FBI Files related program about the era that defined Bugs Moran by the moniker "Public Enemy Number One" and even after the St. Valentine's Day massacre he remained number one on the police radar despite the rise to prominence of the Outfit.

Whether this reflected the reality or whether the new power in Chicago the Outfit had the Feds payed off may be a contributing factor that sealed his fate in organised crime it could be argued but often in hindsight things are simplified in terms of one hit and Bugs Moran was a very tough crook, as many of them were in them days.

They had to be but Bugs Moran was more determined than most and his adventures after the St. Valentine's Day Massacre are often left unmerited when if you read the catalogues of his crimes, the many gun battles,, murders and connections he had after the all time no.1 hit then I think many would be surprised at how revealing this chapter of his life turned out to be.

Quite handy with his fists too, once two muggers tried to rob him at knife point and he knocked them both out with two straight punches, a witness told the press, thowing his coat over one like a net and then busting the other's jaw and leaving him sunbathing in the street.

Very underestimated underworld figure in my opinion. One tough old school mobster for sure.

Last edited by SEAN_SOUTH; 10/04/12 04:47 PM.

'So I say, ďLive and let live.Ē Thatís my motto. ďLive and let live.Ē Anyone who canít go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. Itís a simple philosophy, but itís always worked in our family.'

George Carlin
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #668895
10/05/12 12:17 AM
10/05/12 12:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,425
Bamboo Lounge
NickyEyes1 Offline
Hawks Bears Bulls Sox
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Bamboo Lounge
So does anyone know when the north side mob became defunct?

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: NickyEyes1] #668944
10/05/12 06:56 AM
10/05/12 06:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
Camarel Offline
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Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
So does anyone know when the north side mob became defunct?


Soon after the repeal of prohibition

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: NickyEyes1] #668996
10/05/12 12:00 PM
10/05/12 12:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 319
SEAN_SOUTH Offline
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In a Waukegan Tavern E. Barnett, a former North Side Gang hauler who had left the gang's employ bumped into a reflective George Moran who ruminated on Clark street (the massacre). "Those were good boys" he said to Moran.

Moran said that he hadn't forgotten and had gone some way to eveen the score despite the heavy police surveillance that was suffocating every move he seemed to be making at the time. He told the old North Sider that he had gone to the East Coast to kill Bob Carey, the main lookout who called the North Clark Street killers into action on that fateful day.

Carey and his girlfirend were found stretched out on the flooor and riddled with bullets. The murder was never solved.

The North Siders kept interests in the area well into the 30's . Bugs Moran wanted to move his gang to LA to move away from the glare of the law, really putting the fear into local villains and small time crooks who pleaded with the police to prevent Moran from setting up there.

Moran's links to St. Louis were strong and as his interests moved to the fringe of Chicago, the racetracks (owned by O'Brien in collusion with corrupt policial officials) and other clubs and locations the North Side Gang increasingly became dispersed, fragmented, went into bank robbery or became in later years absorbed into the East St. Louis organised crime faction which was run by Buster Wortman who had peace with the Outfit and stayed within his own territory.

The North Siders had contacts in Ohio, New York, Florida and California. When Frank Foster was arrested after a raid in the early 30's a letter was found that convinced the authorities the North Siders were moving in on LA. The LA Times noted "Moran has been in Los Angeles on more than one occasion. The authorities believe he may also have contacts in Florida.

(They) assert that Foster was paving the way for the extending of Moran's criminal enterprise here and that "the big boss" would arrive to make his headquarters only after preliminary details had worked out and "the business" was operating on a Chicago like basis.

A rattled local operative in the LA underworld was relieved this article had exposed the move, causing Moran to temporarily abort the operation gratefully informing a local reporter "If they'd ever put it over, we'd have had to fold up and get out of town cos we wouldn't have a Chinaman's chance of standing up to that level of competetion"

Moran planned to re-open the Sheridan Wave Club, scene of the St. Valenine's Day massacre, even sending out engraved invitations but the authorities turned him down.

Moran attempted to consolidate his power by tightening his alliances in St Paul-Minneapolis. Muscle power was needed in a war with the Weisman Gang of Kansas City and as the body count in the region started to rise it was clear Moran had stamped his authority on yet another conflict. He became embroiled in other conflicts in the region with many other rival factions.

Moran held busineess interests in clubs and businesses in Chicago such as th Central Cleaning Company, across Minnesota/St.Paul/the mid-West until his imprisonment and death. His operations extended northwards as the authorities put the squeeze on his North Side rackets and he took control of the gambling rackets in Wisconsin, remained a powerful underworld figure until that time. His ex-wife ran the Doll house, a famous hideout for the likes of Tommy Carroll, Dillinger and baby Faced Nelson.

Leo Mongoven and Bugs Moran would supervise slot machine rackets in Lake Country until 1936, when Moran's newer business interests took him elsewhere.

Wht remained of the Chicago North Side Gang (as recognised in the bootlegging war) largely disintegrated into different factions by the mid-30's. Leo Mongoven ran some minor book and slot machine action that the Outfit did not interfere with and he lived to a ripe old age passing away in 1980, a rare survivor from the North Side ranks. Some of the relatives of North Side members still hold business interests (legally) in the area today.

Sadly because alot of the Cops of the time were crooked and most of the media interest was in Capone alot of these great tales died with the North Side's activities.

The East St.Louis and Minneapolis organised crime elements kept their power base until the mid-80's.


Last edited by SEAN_SOUTH; 10/05/12 12:13 PM.

'So I say, ďLive and let live.Ē Thatís my motto. ďLive and let live.Ē Anyone who canít go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. Itís a simple philosophy, but itís always worked in our family.'

George Carlin
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Jimmy_Two_Times] #676864
11/15/12 12:13 AM
11/15/12 12:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 674
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gamms Offline
Was: sitonmyface11
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Underboss
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you aint gonna give a guy a sportsbook, even if hes ur fucking son, if he dont know how to change the lines. the sopranos were bullshit. the bookies are the winners. they re going to always be ahead of the wiseguys. a big book can make more than a teamsters pension fund can.

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #694144
02/03/13 06:09 PM
02/03/13 06:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 522
tommykarate Offline
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Myth fate Pete wasn't shot cus casso thought he was a snitch.he was shot cus he was pleading guilty in the windows case and casso and amuso were a part of it


One thing about wiseguys...the hustle never ends.-tony soprano
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #697167
02/16/13 05:58 PM
02/16/13 05:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,514
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,514
Texas


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #698246
02/21/13 12:48 AM
02/21/13 12:48 AM
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UnderTheClock Offline
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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Interesting info about Moran. Didn't know his tentacles stretched that far.

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #698844
02/23/13 05:16 AM
02/23/13 05:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 132
East US
Viceguy Offline
ManOnTheMake
Viceguy  Offline
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East US
Does it always work when a made man has an interest in a business? Supposedly he gets a piece of the profits and provides protection from anybody muscling in, that much I get.

I ask because of the union guy O'Connor who arranged the dismantling of a business supposedly constructed with non-union workers.

Unknown to O'Connor the Gambinos had a hidden interest and Gotti was caught on tape ordering Fat Ang to bust O'connor up for which the Don was later charged and ultimately acquitted.

O'Connor was initially offered a 5 G bribe, but refused it. Why would the owner offer anything since they were connected? Why didn't they just go to their guy and report?


N..... or no, bastard had balls, shame to kill him...
I got nuthin', I got nuthin...

Coming to bb is like going to the dollar store. You came for one thing, but once in now youse cant leave.
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #706541
03/27/13 04:33 PM
03/27/13 04:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 94
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BaltimoreSteel69 Offline
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Button
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What's wrong with glorifying mobsters?



"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #715397
05/13/13 05:04 AM
05/13/13 05:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,835
OC, CA
Faithful1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: BaltimoreSteel69

What's wrong with glorifying mobsters?


Seriously?!? Uh, well, because the rob, steal, extort, bribe and murder. They have lives that revolve around committing evil deeds.

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #715425
05/13/13 09:54 AM
05/13/13 09:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,053
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bronx Offline
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viceguy..the person who owned that restaurant was a made guy,

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Don Cardi] #716081
05/17/13 07:33 PM
05/17/13 07:33 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 33
bensonhurst brooklyn
S
SHOREHAVEN Offline
Wiseguy
SHOREHAVEN  Offline
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Wiseguy
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 33
bensonhurst brooklyn
your a mademan so you would know

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: SHOREHAVEN] #716264
05/18/13 11:57 PM
05/18/13 11:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
Camarel Offline
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Camarel  Offline
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Originally Posted By: SHOREHAVEN
your a mademan so you would know


Who are you talking to? confused

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Camarel] #716393
05/19/13 06:42 PM
05/19/13 06:42 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 33
bensonhurst brooklyn
S
SHOREHAVEN Offline
Wiseguy
SHOREHAVEN  Offline
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Wiseguy
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bensonhurst brooklyn
bronx

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: SHOREHAVEN] #716458
05/19/13 10:21 PM
05/19/13 10:21 PM
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bronx Offline
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with what family..the koshernostra

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #717207
05/24/13 03:22 PM
05/24/13 03:22 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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mulberry Offline
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I totally disagree. Washing dishes might be better for normal people, but most of these mobsters are not normal people. They are extremely greedy, power hungry, and sociopathic. Do you think guys like John Gotti, Tony Spilotro, or Carmine Persico would ever trade their lives to wash dishes if they could do it all over again? One died in prison, another was beaten to death, and the other has spent most of his adult life in prison. I bet none of them ever even regretted their mob life for a second and wished they were a car salesman or janitor. Even Sammy Gravano, when he had a second chance, went straight back to a life of crime even though he had plenty of money and two successful businesses in Arizona.

Last edited by mulberry; 05/24/13 03:24 PM.
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Faithful1] #717208
05/24/13 03:25 PM
05/24/13 03:25 PM
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Posts: 999
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mulberry Offline
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Originally Posted By: BaltimoreSteel69

What's wrong with glorifying mobsters?


Seriously?!? Uh, well, because the rob, steal, extort, bribe and murder. They have lives that revolve around committing evil deeds.


The same could be said about Bush and Obama, but millions still glorify them.

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #717820
05/30/13 03:44 PM
05/30/13 03:44 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 6
Crazy_Casso Offline
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I wonder where it all went wrong for the mob. They had it all, they could buy off local cops, judges, you name it. Hell, even some FBI agents. As long as the money was flowing, they were not able to be taken down. "Nobody in New York City can be made a judge without Costello's consent."

Of course, wouldn't it be a repeating cycle of getting caught, buying off the cops, starting over, etc. Where did the first gear break off?

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Crazy_Casso] #718406
06/03/13 12:11 AM
06/03/13 12:11 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 202
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elmwoodparker Offline
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Made Member
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Like everything else, Greed. Also, a couple of other things besides Greed. 1). The law enforcement became much better, like agent Pistone infiltrating the Disorganized Bonnano Family. 2). Rico Act in 1985. 3). Too many made guys in New York trying to eat off the same plate. Too much QUANTITY and not enough QUALITY.

Last edited by elmwoodparker; 06/03/13 12:11 AM.
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: elmwoodparker] #727282
07/17/13 07:37 AM
07/17/13 07:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
C
Chicago Offline
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Chicago  Offline
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Illinois
Can't really argue with those points. The Bonnano Family was not disorganized, they simply allowed themselves to be compromised. The Feds during that time were starting to catch on slowly but surely about the American Mafia.

Last edited by Chicago; 07/17/13 07:39 AM.
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #727741
07/18/13 10:07 PM
07/18/13 10:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 376
In a wide open city
Tony_Pro Offline
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Tony_Pro  Offline
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In a wide open city
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Both Sedway and Greenbaum were associates of Lansky. Sedway operated out of NY, Greenbaum was with the Outfit. Tony Accardo specifically asked Greenbaum to manage the Riviera Hotel in Vegas. According to many stories, Greenbaum was murdered in '58 on orders from Accardo because he was skimming.

We'd have to infer that both were involved with Siegel's hit--especially after they showed up at the Flamingo about an hour after he was killed--but the triggerman or men have never been identified. The movie would have us believe that Mickey Cohen pulled the trigger, but I doubt it.


I've always heard that the triggermen were Dragna people. It's always fascinated me that this one of the rare hits carried out with a rifle (in this case a military surplus M1 Carbine).


This life of ours, this is a wonderful life. If you can get through life like this, hey, thats great. But it's very, very unpredictable. There are so many ways you can screw it up.-Paul Castellano (he would know)

"I'm not talking about Italians, I'm talking about criminals."-Joe Valachi
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #734074
08/13/13 02:25 AM
08/13/13 02:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,835
OC, CA
Faithful1 Offline
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Faithful1  Offline
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OC, CA
Bill Bonanno said that a Jewish mobster accompanied the Dragna shooter on the Siegel hit. Don't know if what he wrote is accurate, but that was his claim. I think the shooter was Eddie Cannizzaro, a Dragna soldier.

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #734088
08/13/13 03:09 AM
08/13/13 03:09 AM
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Posts: 368
H
ht2 Offline
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Capo
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I doubt even Joe Bonanno Sr knew the exact details. There's no corroboration for the identity of the shooter so I don't believe these claims. Might as well believe Kuklinski killed Hoffa or Big Paul.

I read that all the curtains in the mansion were normally drawn closed and that the ones behind him were opened and Siegel didn't notice. If true, this would suggest more than one person.

Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Tony_Pro] #739558
09/12/13 02:33 PM
09/12/13 02:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8
BigEarner Offline
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BigEarner  Offline
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Posts: 8
What about Frankie Carbo? He was mentioned as the shooter.


Sorry for my english wink
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: BigEarner] #740344
09/17/13 09:22 PM
09/17/13 09:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 18,146
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 18,146
AZ
Could be. Carbo was in on the Big Greenie hit with Siegel.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu Ť sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Mob myths, facts and realities [Re: Turnbull] #744267
10/13/13 11:29 PM
10/13/13 11:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,514
Texas
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olivant Offline
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O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,514
Texas
Speaking of Siegel, I just watched a Pawn Stars rerun from 2011. In it Corey spouted off with the bull legend about Siegel being the originator of the Flamingo and naming it after Virginia Hill.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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