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Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: thebigfella] #714134
05/05/13 06:11 PM
05/05/13 06:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
Faithful1 Offline
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Faithful1  Offline
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Guys, I'd recommend slowing down on saying who was who in the early years of the Outfit. I've been researching this for over 20 years, know a bunch of Outfit relatives and insiders and can tell you that there are conflicting stories about who ran the Outfit in the 1930s and 40s. The consensus is that Al Capone ran it from 1925 to 1931/32, but after that there's confusion. Traditionally most think the top spot went to Frank Nitto, but there are many good sources who say that Ricca was the top boss, and there's a minority position who says it was Louis Campagna. I tend to go with Ricca and Campagna. Accardo was the Outfit boss from around 1947 to 1956, then Giancana, however the guy ultimately in charge was Ricca. I also found out that the Chicago Outfit isn't set up the same as other crime families: each crew is almost like its own Family and the most powerful one is in charge. Ricca, Campagna and Giancana were all part of the Taylor Street Crew and Accardo and Cerone with the old Grand Avenue/Elmwood Park one. After Ricca died the power went to Cicero (where Aiuppa was from), then back to Elmwood Park. Taylor Street was also broken up to 26th Street/Chinatown and Grand Avenue (different from old Grand Avenue) to dilute its power.

Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: Faithful1] #714137
05/05/13 06:25 PM
05/05/13 06:25 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1
After Ricca died the power went to Cicero (where Aiuppa was from), then back to Elmwood Park.

But do you think Aiuppa was a power on his own or did he just do what Accardo told him to?


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: thebigfella] #714140
05/05/13 06:53 PM
05/05/13 06:53 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,684
new jersey
T
thebigfella Offline OP
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thebigfella  Offline OP
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new jersey


"McGurn likes you, so I make you. So you are now one of us, if you fuck up, we take it out on McGurn. He is your sponsor. Fuck up, it's his ass. You work in his crew, he is your capo."
Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: Dwalin2011] #714149
05/05/13 08:17 PM
05/05/13 08:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
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Faithful1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: Faithful1
After Ricca died the power went to Cicero (where Aiuppa was from), then back to Elmwood Park.

But do you think Aiuppa was a power on his own or did he just do what Accardo told him to?


Accardo was mostly retired by the time Aiuppa was in power. Accardo was respected and influential, but he was only in charge when there was no one else available. The question to ask is if Accardo was so powerful and had anything to do with the killings of all those Taylor Street members, why did they only happen after Ricca died and not before? The answer is that Aiuppa gave the orders and that's what he wanted done, and that he didn't succeed to that position until Ricca was out of the way.

Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: Faithful1] #714152
05/05/13 08:33 PM
05/05/13 08:33 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Ricca was indeed a clever gangster. It's strange why did he go to prison twice while Accardo not even once.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: Dwalin2011] #714173
05/05/13 11:13 PM
05/05/13 11:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
Faithful1 Offline
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Faithful1  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Ricca was indeed a clever gangster. It's strange why did he go to prison twice while Accardo not even once.


The problem with Ricca is that he stole someone's identity in coming to America which made him subject to deportation while Accardo was born in Chicago. Ricca was also either the top or number two guy at the time of his arrest in the Hollywood extortion case and Accardo was out of the loop.

Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: thebigfella] #714175
05/06/13 12:12 AM
05/06/13 12:12 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,684
new jersey
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thebigfella Offline OP
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thebigfella  Offline OP
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Nitti was in charge and ricca did things behind his back to undermind him, nitti and ricca never liked each other, ricca was one sneaky s.o.b


"McGurn likes you, so I make you. So you are now one of us, if you fuck up, we take it out on McGurn. He is your sponsor. Fuck up, it's his ass. You work in his crew, he is your capo."
Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: Faithful1] #714178
05/06/13 12:36 AM
05/06/13 12:36 AM
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cookcounty Offline
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: Faithful1
After Ricca died the power went to Cicero (where Aiuppa was from), then back to Elmwood Park.

But do you think Aiuppa was a power on his own or did he just do what Accardo told him to?


Accardo was mostly retired by the time Aiuppa was in power. Accardo was respected and influential, but he was only in charge when there was no one else available. The question to ask is if Accardo was so powerful and had anything to do with the killings of all those Taylor Street members, why did they only happen after Ricca died and not before? The answer is that Aiuppa gave the orders and that's what he wanted done, and that he didn't succeed to that position until Ricca was out of the way.



accardo respected ricca and ricca helped keep accardo outta the can

so why would accardo betray ricca

ricca died and accardo, aiuppa, and cerone took over....thee end

Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: Faithful1] #714183
05/06/13 01:14 AM
05/06/13 01:14 AM
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jonnynonos Offline
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Guys, I'd recommend slowing down on saying who was who in the early years of the Outfit. I've been researching this for over 20 years, know a bunch of Outfit relatives and insiders and can tell you that there are conflicting stories about who ran the Outfit in the 1930s and 40s. The consensus is that Al Capone ran it from 1925 to 1931/32, but after that there's confusion. Traditionally most think the top spot went to Frank Nitto, but there are many good sources who say that Ricca was the top boss, and there's a minority position who says it was Louis Campagna. I tend to go with Ricca and Campagna. Accardo was the Outfit boss from around 1947 to 1956, then Giancana, however the guy ultimately in charge was Ricca. I also found out that the Chicago Outfit isn't set up the same as other crime families: each crew is almost like its own Family and the most powerful one is in charge. Ricca, Campagna and Giancana were all part of the Taylor Street Crew and Accardo and Cerone with the old Grand Avenue/Elmwood Park one. After Ricca died the power went to Cicero (where Aiuppa was from), then back to Elmwood Park. Taylor Street was also broken up to 26th Street/Chinatown and Grand Avenue (different from old Grand Avenue) to dilute its power.


If you read Gus Russo's book he doesn't pay a whole lot of attention to the structure at the very top. (Ricca, Accardo, Giancana, Humpreys.) Obviously he was most impressed with Humphreys.

I think that is a mature and realistic approach. These guys, particularly back then, were into making money and little else. They weren't acting out a scene from the Godfather. Presumably at all points one person did have ultimate authority but it almost seemed to be a nonissue. There didn't seem to be a lot of "don" shit going on.

I think sometimes people get a little too hung up on the formal authority.

Just like in a company you can have a lame duck CEO, there may have been times during the Outfit's history when the nominal "boss" was more of an advisor.

No matter what the chart says, the smartest person is generally in charge, because everyone else relies on them to pull their ass out of the fire, etc.

Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: thebigfella] #714184
05/06/13 01:16 AM
05/06/13 01:16 AM
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jonnynonos Offline
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Although I do take Rudy Fratto at his word that he "is da bos of dis place... no one else!"

Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: thebigfella] #714187
05/06/13 01:39 AM
05/06/13 01:39 AM
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jace Offline
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What was Capone's cause of death? I had always thought it was advanced Syphilis.

Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: thebigfella] #714192
05/06/13 02:02 AM
05/06/13 02:02 AM
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Posts: 1,156
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jonnynonos Offline
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Yes it was. Stroke > pneunmonia > heart attack.

Interesting thing I learned in my career, if the ME doesn't want to cause trouble they can always check "cardiac arrest" as COD. (Not saying that's what happened with Capone.)

Everyone dies of cardiac arrest, ultimately. I remember going through some old death certificates and there was a specific note on it: "DO NOT CHECK CARDIAC ARREST IF OTHER CAUSE DETERMINABLE." etc. Something like that.

Well, I knew, from other circumstances, this person had died of something other than cardiac arrest, but there it was, checked: "Cardiac arrest."

He was indigent, had died of something sordid, and they probably just did not want to deal with it, embarrass his family etc.

Last edited by jonnynonos; 05/06/13 02:02 AM.
Re: was al capone the first vincent gigante? [Re: furio_from_naples] #714271
05/06/13 01:38 PM
05/06/13 01:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,205
Your Mom's House
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Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
Al Capone was sick with syphilis as early as 19 years, which is why his son was born deaf because of neonatal syphilis, Capone if he really wanted to take up the reins of powerwould come back to Chicago, instead of hanging out in florida, but now the tertiary syphilis had devoured his brain, so it is dead so he wanted giovane.Se after Nitti committed suicide in 1942, might well have once again become the boss of Chicago, where he had so many loyal men.


I thought it was because of syphallis that he was crazy at the end.

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