In the book Murder Machine it says that Roy DeMeo was killed at one of Patty Testa's garages by Nino Gaggi, and also by Joey Testa and Anthony Senter.
However, in the more recent (2008) biography of Casso, he states that Roy was killed at Patty Testa's house in Flatlands, and that he was killed by Testa and Senter themselves as he was about to receive a cup of coffee. It says that Nino Gaggi wasn't even there during it. However, he almost certainly ordered Senter and Testa to do the hit.
Which is correct? Murder Machine or Casso's biography? (Which do you think?)

I believe Casso's version.
The contract was first given to Gotti who couldnt get close to him then to Frank DeCicco who couldnt get to Roy either, finally DeCicco went to Paul Castellano and suggested reaching out to Anthony Casso (who knew the Testa's).
A deal was struck where the Gemini twins would whack Roy and they would then go to work for Casso.
The Twins really didnt have a choice, when the boss of bosses wants someone gone you do as your told - if they hadnt killed Roy then they would have been killed themselves.
Roy supposedly went to a meeting at Patty Testa's house where he let his guard down as he felt safe amongst 3 of his best men.
He was seated and about to recieve coffee when Joey and Anthony opened fire.
Albert Demeo later said his father had a hole in his hand which suggested Roy saw it coming and threw his hands to cover his face in a final futile act.

Ya I believe that too. I really have a hard time believing that Nino Gaggi was there and actually performed the hit himself. And ya thats true about the Gemini Twins, they would have been dead if they didn't do it.

I agree with Gary... Casso's version seems more in tune with how it could have gone down.

Many theory's are behind DeMeo's murder. One Theory was Paul Castellano had put a contract on DeMeo and John was willing to do it. Sammy Gravano had said in court that Frank DeCicco was behind DeMeo's murder but cannot get to him. The Other Theory was that DeMeo's own crew were given the job due to the fact they were closer and bigger than DeMeo lol.

What page is this DeMeo on in the paperback version of Casso's book? Damn thing doesn't have an index, and I don't feel like going through it page by page to find it.

thanks in advance

According to Anthony Casso's 2008 biography, DeMeo was killed at Patrick Testa's East Flatbush home by Joseph Testa and Anthony Senter following an agreement with Casso, who was given the contract by Gotti and DeCicco after they were unable to kill DeMeo during the fall of 1982. The Casso biography notes that DeMeo was seated, about to receive coffee, when Testa and Senter opened fire. Anthony Gaggi was not present.

John was terrified of Demeo and it was actually caught on wiretape. In 1982 Gene said taht John was wary of taking on Demeo because he had an army of killers

In any case, Al DeMeo said that Roy left all his jewelry and wallet ( I think??) the day he went. I'm not sure it would have mattered if Nino was there or not; he just had to know that whatever he was set to do that day, could likely be his last. I recall reading somewhere that Tony Spilotro did something similar?

What a feeling that must be, just walking into the lion's den. Talk about accepting your fate!

I don't know about leaving behind valuables but I think either Tony Spilotro said something to his loved ones like "If I'm not back by night, something very bad has happened."

Sonny Black is the one guy who was famous for leaving behind his jewelry and whatnot. They show Lefty doing this in the movie, but it was really Sonny Black if I remember right.

Yup that was sonny Black. Also i think Danny Grillo of the demeo crew did something like that. He made sure he said goodbye to his family before he left to be killed

Why do you think did they change that in the movie? If Sonny Black was in that scene instead of Lefty, it wouldn't be less impressive.

Hollywood always makes changes, their films are never totally true to the books.
They change whatever they think will juice it up for the audience!

Lately, I have been exchanging emails with a son of a made guy who passed away in the 1980s. He recently told me about a friend of his father´s (this friend was also a made member) who was killed in the 1950s.
I have promised not to mention any names, so I will not do that. But this story is powerful so I thought I´ll share it with you.

"My father had told me a story of a guy being killed, shortly after being made, for breaking one of the rules. Over the years, I got a few more details. After he was killed, his wife moved into our building, or maybe she was already neighbor and my family did not know her. Anyway, my mother and her became friendly, both being mothers with children in the same playground, and being neighbors. The wife said that in weeks before he was killed, he had set up a small religious shrine, and the night he went out and got killed, he was on his knees praying to it before leaving. He would not tell her what was the matter. But somehow he had a feeling that he was going to get killed."

because lefty was a major character as where sonny was more of a supporting character.

Well decicco was the one who really passed teh contract on. Gotti was scared shitless of demeo. In fact Big Paul orginally asked gotti to do it but Gotti tried to duck this assignment and gave his reservations about it and lucky for gotti paul forgot about it. Im not saying Gotti wasnt tough but he did fear certain people

I'm not sure Gotti "feared" DeMeo and that's why he passed on the hit...remember he killed Castellano who had the backing of the entire Gaggi crew.

What was the Gotti quote again.."you don't lie, if you lie it means you fear someone..I don't lie" - or something like that!

Maybe not fear, but he was likely nervous about taking on DeMeo considering everyone in DeMeo's circle were psychopathic killers

Possibly....although there were a fair share of killers in the Gotti crew - the Carneglias, Willie Boy, Gravano etc and you'd have to work on the assumption that the demeo crew would risk an unsanctioned hit on Gotti just to avenge demeo's murder.

I reckon it was more of a hidden lack of willingness to do Castellano any favours - if Gotti could get out of any situation which might help Castellano, he would've at that point. Remember, Castellano wanted Demeo dead incase he turned infomant, so what's Gotti to gain in carrying out the hit if he could avoid it?

Yeah but gotti was always a talker lol. Gotti always talked tough and he was tough but its pretty clear from FBI bugs that Gotti wanted no part of Demeo. also in regards to Castellano remember Paul was very vulnerable at taht time. Roy was dead, Gaggi was in jail, and frank decicco and sammy joined gotti so it wasnt that tough to take him out

i do no think gravano was in gotti's crew before they whacked out big paulie.. just what ive heard.. thought i would share....

this is regarding fergie's post.

thats right sammy was actually in Toddo Aurello's crew. I might have mispelled the name but thats the guy he was under from 1976-1985

I agree, I believe the Gemini Twins(Joey&Anthony)cause as you said they went to work for Casso soon after and then were made in that family ,just from what Ive heard and read..

I know Joey was made but did Senter get made also??

Great quote.
I've always thought that Castellano had the Gemini twins kill DeMeo, no one else having been considered.

Senter couldn't b made

y not??

Richard Kuklinski the "ICEMAN" also claims to have killed Roy Demeo

Kuklinski was responsible for every mob related murder in NY nad NJ from 1960 to 1986 if you believe him!

He wasn't italian.they say it in either murder machine or cassos book.im pretty sure he couldn't b made

Senter was of Italian descent; misspelling of his name somewhere along the line. Senter/Senta

Im pretty sure he was 100% Italian. I kno its been talked about here before but couldn't find the thread. Can someone confirm this? Maybe Hairy Knuckles or Pizza Boy?

I think you are right. Senter is not a common Italian name, but you can find it among the northern Italian population, especially in the Trantino province bordering Austria.
It is very much possible, but I can´t confirm it, that Senter´s mother was of southern Italian origin which allowed him entrance into the Mafia as a made guy.

Thats what I thought thanks HK

That is pretty interesting. The mindset was totally different just a little bit further back in time. Solid, resolved to their organization.

Not trying to souund like a know it all.. because im not but Gravano wasnt in gotti's crew. Sammy was in toddo aurello's crew.

sorry i already said that... lol i didnt realize this was a old post .... forgive me

This is a tough one... I think overall Capeci's record is much better than Carlo's for getting it right.

I also "like" the Nino theory; Roy was paranoid, had a feeling he'd be whacked. I could see him hooking up with Nino in those final days... He knew what his own crew was capable of -- after all, he had taught them...

Senter is an Italian name it's not extremely common but there are indeed Italian last names that don't end in vowels and not meaning the people who had it taken off. Like HN said its names like Senter for example, or DeAngelis that can be found more in the northern regional area of Italy. Good example:Furio Junter

Speaking of Senters, anyone know whatever became of Robert Senter, the guy that killed Manny Gambino? Is he still alive? I know they tried to poison him in prison once but thats pretty much the last i heard of him.

I read he was born in 1936 so if he's still alive he has to be 76 or 77 now.

You make a great point about not all Italian names ending a vowel, Southend. Like you say, it's not just the ones that are shortened, either. I know a whole clan of DeRobertises who still use that name in the Basilicata region. In America such a name might have become Roberts way back when.

But you picked a poor example to demonstate your point. Furio's last name was Giunta: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0011350/.

Unless you were making a joke. In which case I completely appreciate the sarcasm .

Do you mean Furio Giunta? Junter, LOL

No disrespect but that was funny.

Edit: Pizzaboy caught me first!

^^^^
I caught that, too. Read the post above yours, LCN .

Yeah, I saw your reply after I had replied. I do however remember hearing someone on the show pronounce it "Junter". Remember when that woman ( a real estate agent?) told Carmela that Furio's house just went up for sale? She says: "Junter, Junta, is that how you say it?". Funny indeed

My point was the difference between his name being pronounced with an R or spelt with an R. I don't know who said it but Senter's last name was never Senta.

Also Tony DelSanter. Former Cleveland underboss

desantis is also a name that was changed

The Gemini Twins took the contract issued by Gaspipe then they whacked Roy. As part of the deal Casso reassured Joey Testa that both he and Anthony Senter would both be "straightened out" and released from the Gambino family. They were officially inducted into the Lucchese borgata by Vic Amuso. Al D'Arco, a captain soon to be named the acting boss of the family at that particular time said that Joey & Anthony participated in the same ceremony where his own son was made that same day. He revealed this info in his autobiography.

I wonder how theY handled it. Obviously, they did not have a choice. But I wonder if there was any guilt? You wack a guy who brought you into the Mob, showed them how to be killers, took them on camping trips, and barbecue. I just wonder the mindset, these guys murdered countless people together, and then there Roy is dead on the floor. having to carry his body out and everything? I would think there would be some sort of sadness? Maybe im wrong, but typically during a murder, when someone covers victim up, it is evidence of shame or guilt. According to the FBI profilers.

I wonder if that would apply to this case, with them putting the chandelier on top of roys corpes. It possibly might be a sign of shame. Why else would they do that?

Gaggi was a capo. Usually capi isolate themselves from murders and they let soldiers do it. I found it very hard to believe that he did it himself.

Gaggi was involved in the Eppolito hit and the hit in a hotel room where they had to amscray in the middle of beheading someone because there were construction workers outside - forget the specifics.

And... he also tried to kill a cop.

Here's my 2 cents.

Why would Demeo take off his jewelry and leave his wallet behind unless he was summoned by a superior (Nino)? It had to be Nino.

It's hard to imagine Demeo leaving behind jewelry and his wallet just to meet up with the Gemini twins for the umpteenth time, or to meet someone outside of the Gambino family for coffee.

What it looks like is that Nino summoned Roy to a meeting to "talk things over". They served him coffee, and then Nino whacked him on Paul's orders. The Twins finished him off to show allegiance.

ivan, the murder machine version of demeos murder can be found on page 358. the author [ jerry capeci ] feels his original source is most assuredly correct, he was recently questioned about his sources for all of the book. and his response was { my sources are impeccable] nino gaggi killed roy demeo, as page 358 of murder machine clearly states.

Binnie, it's interesting that no one has considered the possibility that Casso was engaging in embellishment and self aggrandizement of his criminal career in taking credit for the killing of Roy DeMeo.

It is possible that this is exactly what Casso did.

its not only possible, but, undoubtably true.

Bumped, Monday marks the 39th Anniversary of Roy's murder.

This is more than likely the scenario that played out.

Couldn’t it have been Nino summons Roy, the sit down and out pops hitter(s)? Nino doesn’t necessarily have to be the trigger man but he was obviously a part of the conspiracy.

Nino brought Roy in so it fell on him to rid the family of the liability Roy posed. The only thing is that it weakend Paul's Brooklyn faction to the point where Gotti did not fear internal familial retaliation.

. Yes Roy was in Ninos crew so it was his responsibility. There is no doubt that no having the Demeo crew around made Paul more vulnerable. Obviously Decicco and Sammy turning against him was the final dagger

Casso told the FBI he set up Demeo with Frank Deccico and that Senter and Testa did the work
It’s why that entire crew was transferred to Casso after the Murder when the Gambinos released them
Gaspipe was given Anthony Senter,Joey and Patty Testa and Carlo Profeta.....

Casso, like Kuklinski was full of shit. Roy left his wallet and Vig book at home so he knew he might get killed. My theory is that Nino called Roy and told him to meet the twins at Patty Testa's garage where he was surprised by Nino and killed when he sat down.

The three of them; Casso, DeMeo, and this psychotic idiot Kuklinski, were all lunatics. I don't imagine too many tears were shed for any of em.

. Agreed. Kuklinski was full of shit with a lot of stories he spewed out but there us no doubt he was still a nut case

Yeah, they shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence. Kuklinski wasn't a lunatic and only played that part to get on HBO. Casso was brutal but didn't go after civvies quite like Roy and the Gemini Crew did. Nothing and no one was safe if they turned their murderous eyes you..

New podcast today with live footage of Roy's childhood home, elementary school in the Flatlands, Yacht Club in Canarsie where his Caddilac was found and the NYS Highway Patrol yard where the trunk of his car was opened and his body discovered.

I actually think Kuklinski was a fucking lying genius, he had a book and a movie made on his bullshit, all from prison.

On YouTube right now