I think that's overstating things. Yes, Gravano did a lot of damage to the Gambino family, as well as some additional damage to the other families. But it's not really accurate to single one rat out as "the final wrecking ball" that knocked the LCN out.

If we're using that analogy, the LCN is still standing, albeit severely weakened and crumbling. And the wrecking ball would be a combination of general attrition and RICO hitting it over and over again. But it's a slow process. And is still going on.

really? it's seem too much, if it's true the mafia is still very strong in the states

That may have been referring to the combined profits of the 4 major crime syndicates in Italy - Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, Camorra, and Sacra Corona Unita - not the U.S. mob. More recent estimates have been even higher.

Personally, I take all estimates regarding OC profits with a big dump truck of salt. Even the official figures often don't agree and are all over the place.

if the sources talk about mafia in italy the estimate are even bigger, even more than 100 billions a year, probably 150-200

Gross profit as opposed to net, whole-sale vs. retail and figures inflated to the potential maximum for every bust; this seems to be the norm for most reported seizures and arrests.



Of course DC stated his own opinion, but Id have to agree more with IvyLeague's. If any one trend could be singled out, the general attrition theory is the one that holds the most weight IMO. That and the RICO Act have had far more impact on LCn as a whole than any one rat or informant.

I actually agree with this. The reported 'Ndrangheta profits alone are astronomical; combined with those of the Sicilians and Neapolitans the figures are insane. A diplomatic estimate of Calabrian mafia profits was rated as approx. 3% of the Italian GDP.

http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/News/Canada...kiLeaks-cable/1

any idea how much could earn the mafia in the states a year? are there fbi estimates?

In 2002 the FBI estimated that the Mafia earns $50–$90 billion a year - This is for the US mob.

Read here http://www.cnbc.com/id/37593438

Same on WIkipedia

And same here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ2SmvPdMs0&feature=related - 7:50,but on the video on 7:50 it say 100 billion.

I dont know if its true or not,

in italy and sicily it makes something like 160 billion either iin pound or euros. but its 8% of italys gdp

if it's true the mafia in the states earn so much it's still very strong

True,maybe they dont have manpower but if this is true they have money and they are involved a lot

That can't possibly be true. I imagine combined net profits for all made guys and associates is probably about $1 billion. That would work out an average annual income for every member and associate of about $100,000 - and that's for a very high end estimate of 10,000 members and associates combined (i.e., 10-15 associates for every made guy). And I wouldn't be surprised if it were a fair bit less than that.

Ralph Vito Perna – capo in the Jersey crew. Was arrested in December 2007 with Joseph DiNapoli and Matthew Madonna. The Jersey crew ran an illegal gambling operation that earned approximately $2.2 billion overa 15-month period. The crew also worked with New Jersey correction officers and members of Nine Trey Gangster, a set, or subgroup, of the Bloods street gang. The Jersey crew used Bloods members to smuggle illegal drugs and prepaid cell phones into the New Jersey state prisons

Plus the other 400 mil gambling ring which one of the ruling panel capos were involved in. and the amount of money they make on superbowl

I'm aware of those big gambling rings, but those figures are likely inflated. Second, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the figures given are for the gross revenues, not net profit.

A gambling ring with net profits of 2 billion dollars would have to have gross revenues of like 20 billion. Which, for example, would have to have a structure of, say, 2 million people wagering $10,000 each. Color me skeptical.

yeah if there was that much money floating around how come those two members felt the need to work with the bloods?

Exactly, Ivan. If the Feds pick up a wiretap of one guy winning a thousand on the Giants and one guy losing a thousand on the 49ers, they write it up as a two thousand dollar wager. It doesn't even matter to them that the bookies only see ten percent of the losing side of that bet (the vig). But it makes for good copy in the papers, so they report it however they want.

so what about the gambino mobilephone fraud which made 650 million in six year or something? plenty more mobsters will be getting into these sophisticated crimes!

Well, that was kind of an anomaly. Just because that happened at that scale one time a decade ago doesn't mean it's common enough to add up to forty billion dollars annual revenue for the mob.

No one is saying that they're not making money anymore. Ivan only pointed out that gambling numbers are ALWAYS inflated by the Feds. And he's 100% right.

As far as "plenty more mobsters getting into sophisticated crimes." I'm sure a few of them will, but most of them are imbeciles who will rely on the tried and true (gambling and shylocking).

I'm skeptical also, big difference between revenue and profit and also collecting on all that money. Seems like a big stretch there are so many high stake gamblers.

i was just making a point. and yh it might of happened but who says there something making more money in those types frauds now? i think they would be making an absolute max of 7 to 10 bill. ABSOLUTE max

On October 1, 2009 DiNapoli was indicted in a racketeering scheme that made approximately $400 million from gambling, loansharking, gun trafficking and extortion

Salvatore "Tore" LoCascio along with Richard Martino, Salvatore introduced the Gambinos to online pornography operations that earned the family up to $350 million per year

Agree its about 5-10 billions per year.No way its 100 billions or something since mob in italy earns over 100 billion with 20,000+ made members and 300,000+ associates.

gambling numbers reported by the FBI/authorities are ridiculous. If anyone ran a network of books that was netting what the FBI claims than Steve Wynn would probably personally make that person an executive

like everyone said above money passing through a book doesn't equal money made by a book. I even find some of those numbers, like the ones in the billions, to be obscene if we're talking about total wagers. thats crazy to me. but it is a crazy world so who knows

probably the american mob is close to 20 billions a year at most

heck no, i would say DEF less than $1B and prob less than $100 million...

I am hesitant to take them at face value as well. Even just one billion dollars in total bets (not just profits) would require some crazy combination of bettors, the most even distribution being something like roughly 32,000 gamblers betting 32,000 dollars each. Think of the logistics behind that.

Now, if the wagering were done on the internet with computers somehow, really huge quantities of bettors over a massive geographic area (made possible by the internet and some kind of gambling software) would be feasible I guess.



Now I think you're going too far in the other direction. $100 million would only require every member and associate to have profits of about $15,000 - $20,000 per year. No one would join the mob if the pay were that crappy.

About $1 billion a year for every member and associate combined is probably a pretty safe estimate.

1 billion a year is too little, come on
in italy there are single members who have assets close to 2-3 billions, single members who earn more than 100 millions a year
it's impossible the 5 families earn less than a single italian mobster in italy
i bet the bonanno's alone earn more than 1 billion a year

I dunno man. You figure between 5000 and 10,000 members and associates total (and that's generously allowing for between like 7 and 15 associates per member), they'd have to be averaging $100,000-$200,000 in profits every year for them to clear a billion all together. The situation in Italy is a lot different than it is for street guys in the USA. It's a lot harder for them to make huge amounts of money as anything too ostentatious would get smacked down by the feds right quick.

And this isn't even taking into account all the members who are inactive or in jail, which could be maybe even a fourth (or more?) of the total membership.

there are people involved in the pizza connection who are members of the lcn families in the states, i bet these people alone make more than 1 billionsa year between money laundering, drugs etc.