I don't think the 'Ndrangheta is as powerful as Cosa Nostra was at its height, when it practically controlled the state at one point. But the 'Ndrangheta surely looks more sophisticated than their Sicilian counterparts and for that reason alone their endurance will be better.

the whole actual gambino's and bonanno's administrations are formed by zips, so yeah they are in zips hands
nobody knows surely the actual genovese head it could be the zip de vita
ndrangheta is a little stronger than cosa nostra in europe and australia not worldwide, cosa nostra is far stronger in the US, canada, south america, africa... so i think cosa nostra is still stronger worldwide
italian sources claiming ndrangheta is the strongest group are usually calabrian prosecutor... anyway yes it's probably stronger in europe now but it doesn't control 80% of cocaine like somebody claims it's impossible it leaves 20% for sicilians, napolitans, turkish, russians it's a total joke like the stupid claim albanians control 80% of heroin leaving 20% to turkish lol

Exactly, Sonny.

Evolve or become extinct.

And culturally they are far more subtle and low-key.

you forget that berlusconi is much closer to cosa nostra than any mafia, cosa nostra has still the highest political connections at national level

I think the 'Ndrangheta's main goal is to eventually become a legitimate enterprise; many of them are already more businessmen than gangsters and have investments in legitimate businesses (realised by the laundering of their enormous profits from drug trafficking).

The Corleone family from The Godfather has actually far more to do with the Calabrian 'Ndrangheta than the Sicilian Mafia. If Puzo had chosen to make them a Calabrian family and placed them in Canada The Godfather would have instantly been a very realistic film.

Capeci and others would have used The Godfather as a reference for realism instead of Goodfellas.

I'll buy that. But as far as real life American mob families go, the Corleones were far more mythic.

You would know that better than I do. Still, I think things could have happened like it did in The Godfather.

Maybe something for a new topic in the section above?

the ndrangheta can't become a legitimate enterprise, they are involved in drugs and weapons extortion rackets and so...
in italy no crime family really becomes legitimate although involved in sophisticated business
sicilian mafia is involved in that too and several bosses are businessman, cosa nostra controls virtually the whole sicilian economy and it has legit interests all across italy

Sure, it had its moments.

To me, the most spot-on part of the movie was when Carlo got smacked around by Sonny. That could easily happen in real life, and they filmed it right on Pleasant Avenue in East Harlem, about a block away from where my grandparents lived when they first came to this country.

You can't put a price on realism like that .

All those small things were certainly realistic. But a son who succeeds as Don of the most powerful mafia family during their height in the 1950s and managed to stay on top for 30 or so years before leaving the family in the hands of his bastard cousin?

"Difficult, almost impossible"

That's news to me.

In the Gambino family, Cefalu is from the "Sicilian wing" but he has been in the U.S. for decades and was made into the Gambino family in 1990. Squitieri and Vernace aren't part of the Sicilian faction.

In the Bonanno family, Badalamenti is also a local guy. As is Graziano (if he's still consigliere). And even Montagna only lived in Sicily briefly before coming to the U.S. as a kid, later getting made into the Bonanno family in 1989.

For all the talk over the years about the zips taking over the local families, there hasn't been much evidence of it. Like I said, a handful have risen high up but that's it. In fact, you can probably count them on one hand - Sal Catalano and Sal Montagna for the Bonannos. John Gambino and Dom Cefalu for the Gambinos. Frank Guarraci in Jersey. Stanfa in Philadelphia.



Are you talking about Genovese Jersey capo Silvio Devita? The latest reports, for what they're worth, have the top guys as Mangano, Bellomo, Muscarello, and Dentico. All local guys.



I agree that Cosa Nostra has a bigger presence in the U.S. And it may still have in Canada although that could be changing. The 'Ndrangheta has just as strong, if not stronger, presence in South America now; including better drug connections. The 'Ndrangheta is certainly bigger in Australia. In Africa it's probably a toss up. But most importantly, the 'Ndrangheta is stronger in Italy and in Europe as a whole.



Even without getting caught up in exact percentages, it's obvious the 'Ndrangheta has taken the dominant role in the drug trade as far as Italian OC is considered. While the Sicilians have been marginalized compared to where they were in the past. During Provenzano's reign, there were a lot of reports how the Cosa Nostra in Sicily began to focus more on local rackets such as public works contracts, extortion, etc.

Huh? Not to keep harping on you, m2w, but I don't know where you're getting this. The 'Ndrangheta, like the Cosa Nostra and Camorra, is heavily involved in legitimate sectors of the economy. They have to have somewhere to invest their money from drugs, extortion, weapons trafficking, etc.

Whether or not Morello started the Genovese Family is up to debate, I guess.
But lke I mentioned in an earlier post, Morello and a very small number of his previous followers joined the Masseria Mafia group in the early 1920s.
During that time, Masseria was very successful in merging with mainland Italians, creating a powerful Mafia Family.
When Lucky Luciano took over in 1931, close to only Lucky (among the highranking members in that Family), was of Sicilian descent. Even in the early 1960s, the Luciano Family (now the Genovese Family) was dominated by Neopolitans and Calabreses.

Let´s take a look at the top members heritage in the early 1960s.

Vito Genovese (Neopolitan),
Jerry Catena (Neopolitan),
Mike Miranda (Neopolitan),
Tommy Ryan (Neopolitan),
Tony Bender (Neopolitan),
Rocco Pellegrino (Calabrese),
Tommy Greco (Sicilian),
Richie Boiardo (Neopolitan),
Mike Coppola (Neopoltan),
Angelo (Ray the Gyp) DeCarlo (?),
Generoso Del Duca (Neopolitan),
Jimmy (Blue Eyes) Alo (Calabrese),
Tony (the Shiek) Carillo (Neopolitan),
Carmine Bove (Neopolitan),
Vicenzo (Jimmy Demino) Generoso (?),
Cosmo (Gus) Frasca (Sicilian),
Eugene Catena (Neopolitan),
Joe (Beck) Lapi (?),
Frank Costello, Genovese´s predecessor as boss, (Calabrese).

I´m not dissing your argument on current Genovese members, simply because I dont know their heritage. But as you can see, the early Genovese Family was dominated by mainland Italians.

ok, listen carefully
gambino actual top dogs: john gambino, joe gambino, frank cali, dom cefalu all zips
bonanno top dogs: sal catalano, vinny tv, vito grimaldi, vinny asaro all zips
genovese family: reputed top dog silvio de vita zip
decavalcante top dog: francesco guarraci zip



yeah i'm talking about him, these reports are old... i suppose he is the top dog know since the zips want it



cosa nostra is by far stronger than ndrangheta in Us and Canada, it's stronger in south america (the badalamenti's visrtually control half brazil)and africa (don vito virtually control half south africa)... the ndrangheta is stronger in europe as a whole ok but cosa nostra is stronger worldwide too me



cosa nostra us involved in drugs too although less than ndrangheta, but you forget in italy the mafias get litterally billions (even more than drugs) from fields like public works, waste disposal and gambling where cosa nostra is more entrenched in



i didn't say ndrangheta is not involved in legitimate sectors of course it is, it litterally rules the whole calabria economy... i meant that the crime family in italy never become entireli legitimate even when they are multibillionaire they remain involved in the underwold

honestly, don't proof lying to me i know far more than you in this field
the so called genovese family was formed by sicilians, vito genovese was the boss only for a couple of years since the real boss was lucky luciano until he died in 1962 although little know about this fact...
anyway you are wrong about several of this guys since jerry and eugene catena mike miranda cosimo frasca vinny generoso joe lapi and angelo de carlo are sicilians

Nope, Catena´s origin has been traced back to the town of Salerno, Mike Miranda was born in the province of Naples.
And since I don´t know Generoso´s, Lapi´s and DeCarlos heritage, maybe you´d be so kind to help me out?
What are these guys towns of origin?

sorry pal, jerry catena is sicilian even according to wiretaps of that time
show a me source (credible) that i'm wrong or just shut up

Come on, guys .

Just friggin agree to disagree.

the principal headquarter of the genovese's in east harlem was an heavy sicilian enclaves at that time

I don't even want to get in this, but East Harlem was an enclave for ALL Italians. Period. And the neighborhood is nearly 100 percent Spanish today.

i'm talking of eastharlem of the past not today, in the past was almost 100% italian and among italians sicilians were over 60% in that place

who cares?........it's not 1952 anymore.

Agreed, this is not only a useless discussion, but also in the wrong topic.

the today eastharlem/bronx crew from all the recent acting bosses are is entirely of sicilian descent

Wait, wait, wait...
If a kid claims that Lucky Luciano was boss until 1962, the kid is obviuosly misguided.
He needs to read some books. And learn how to show proper respect in here.
I took upon the task to give the kid some advice. I´ve been researching the US Mafia for close to 30 years. I certainly don´t need to be disrespected like that.

Sonny, how many threads in here starts and ends with the same topic?

i'm still waiting your sources that claimcatena was napolitan
ah yes michael coppola was sicilian too

sorry to perpetuate this any longer but where the hell do you get the idea that Luciano was boss till 1962? he had been well out of that position by 1962.

Oh, I see. I thought we were going off known and demonstrable facts rather than just assumptions that support certain theories. My mistake.



You "suppose," huh?



Half of Brazil and South Africa? OK.



Cosa Nostra makes more money from public works contracts than drugs because it's been marginalized in the drug trade. But drugs are a more lucrative business.

i'm absolutely right about gambino's and bonanno's, i suppose about genovese's but since the zips run the actual commission is very plausible de vita is the boss now



when i said 'half' i meant they are the richest men in both countries, they run multibillionairte empires and they are close to the president of that countries



forget somebody marginalized cosa nostra, nobody could, it was forced by the government because too much under pressure not because ndrangheta or somebody took over... but today it's back in this field and it control a large part of it, although drugs today is a business for losers since public works, waste disposal are multibillionaire business yes even bigger than drug trade

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