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Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: dontomasso] #609251
07/28/11 10:47 AM 07/28/11 10:47 AM
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Cicci was in the first movie, so I don't know what Coppola was talking about.


Good point DT. Also why would the part be written for Clemenza, but called Cicci given the part that Cicci actually played?

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: johnny ola] #609252
07/28/11 10:57 AM 07/28/11 10:57 AM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Who says Coppola wrote this in his letter? What's the source?

"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: Danito] #609253
07/28/11 10:58 AM 07/28/11 10:58 AM
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Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz Offline
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The Last Woltz  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danito
When Castellano finally said no, Coppolla wrote in his letter:
"I wrote the part for you but now I'm forced to change his name to Willie Cicci. ... and just anoter actor play it. He will arrive in the first scene, be introduced as an old time affiliateof Don Corleone's in Brooklyn... and the role will wiork exactly as it did for Clemenza. Out of respect for you, I will not call him Clemenza. (...)"
This tells me, that the basic storyline hasn't changed so much, especially the betrayal. However, they changed Cicci, and called the guy Pentangeli.


There were many iterations of the plot of GFII. Some were in old screenplays which have found their way to the web, others actually left traces in the completed film ("Michael Corleone says hello," Questedt in Cuba).

I wouldn't extrapolate too much from a letter written very early in the process.

"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: dontomasso] #609257
07/28/11 12:29 PM 07/28/11 12:29 PM
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Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Original geschrieben von: dontomasso
Cicci was in the first movie, so I don't know what Coppola was talking about.

There was no "Cicci" in the first movie. Obviously, Coppola changed his plan. He decided to name the Clemenza substitute Pentangeli. And then he named one of Sonny's soldiers Cicci, using an actor who played that minor role in GF. In the original credits you won't find no Cicci in GF.
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: Danito] #609259
07/28/11 12:48 PM 07/28/11 12:48 PM
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olivant Offline
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Although not named as such, the character we've come to know as Cicci was in GFI as the soldier who removed Tessio's gun in one of the film's final scenes.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: olivant] #609295
07/28/11 09:09 PM 07/28/11 09:09 PM
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AZ
Turnbull Offline
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He was also seen (silently) in three other scenes:
1. Around the piano when they went to the mats.
2. Being summoned by Tessio (in the background) when Sonny says his farewell to Michael.
3. One of the crowd-controllers when Sonny beats Carlo.

Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: Turnbull] #609328
07/29/11 12:38 PM 07/29/11 12:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Didn't he also shoot someone in a revolving door, and later take Tessio's gun away from him?

"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: dontomasso] #609345
07/29/11 07:06 PM 07/29/11 07:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
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The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Didn't he also shoot someone in a revolving door, and later take Tessio's gun away from him?


Yes he did.

Making his way to the hotel lobby after leaving the hotel barber shop....





Shooting Cuneo....





In the revolving door.....


Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: Don Cardi] #609385
07/30/11 05:41 PM 07/30/11 05:41 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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Thanks, DC.

I'll say again that Joe Spinell was another example of casting triumphs in GF and II. Cicci is a minor character with little onscreen time and less dialog--but Spinell was so perfect in the role that he gets outsized mention on these boards.

Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: Turnbull] #609387
07/30/11 06:04 PM 07/30/11 06:04 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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He definitely deserves plenty of praise. He reminds me of mybrother who was a bit of a hood. Many probably forget that he kind of reprised his GF role in Rocky.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: johnny ola] #609391
07/30/11 06:34 PM 07/30/11 06:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
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New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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New York
Cicci is one of my husband's favorite characters. Spinell added such depth to that part!

President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: johnny ola] #609565
08/01/11 06:26 PM 08/01/11 06:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
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Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Again, only when GF2 was made, it was decided, that the killer in GF portrayed by Joe Spinell became Cicci. Before the he was nameless.
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: olivant] #609578
08/01/11 08:27 PM 08/01/11 08:27 PM
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Tampa, Florida
johnny ola Offline OP
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johnny ola  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: olivant
He definitely deserves plenty of praise. He reminds me of mybrother who was a bit of a hood. Many probably forget that he kind of reprised his GF role in Rocky.


Actually he was more of self employed loan shark in Rocky.


Last edited by johnny ola; 08/01/11 08:31 PM.
I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: johnny ola] #609607
08/02/11 09:16 AM 08/02/11 09:16 AM
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After his testimony, Cicci was taken into an earlier version of the witness protection program and moved to Philly where he got a new identity and became a loanshark. wink

"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: dontomasso] #616746
10/07/11 11:15 AM 10/07/11 11:15 AM
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New Market, MD
DeathByClotheshanger Offline
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I think Clemenza betraying Mike would have worked just as it did with Franky. But it may have been overkill to have Clemenza and Fredo betraying him at the same time.

It worked out perfectly, in the end.

Last edited by DeathByClotheshanger; 10/07/11 11:18 AM.
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: DeathByClotheshanger] #616749
10/07/11 11:25 AM 10/07/11 11:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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In the Woody Allen movie Annie Hall, the actor who drove a car which followed Michael into New York the night he saw Kay appeared briefly with Allen and Diane Keaton. Allen's line was something to the effect that he felt like he was with the entire cast of the Godfather, and had the desire to call someone Cicci.

"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
Re: Clemenza in GFII [Re: dontomasso] #616770
10/07/11 02:18 PM 10/07/11 02:18 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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I remember DT. Allen also said that he felt like he was in a meeting of the Teamsters.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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