Nicky Scarfo and paul Castellano each made a bad decision to whack one of their top guys. Scarfo whacked Salvie testa out of pure jealousy which made other Scarfo soldiers eventually flip since he killed a guy who was well respected. You can say a lot of things about Paul castellano not being a true gangster but he still was a smart guy who made his family successful. However, one could argue that if Castellano never ordered Demeo killed he probably would have never been whacked by gotti since gotti feared the demeo crew.

Genovese/Valachi?

demeo was a goner. if this didn't happen and blah blah blah. roy was done. he was looking at a lot time. the demeo crew is one that i have researched the most. i believe roy was gonna rat. someone would have killed him.

and if you also look at roy's history yes he was a true mad man but yet he really did no time. i don't think he was ready for the sentence he was looking at!

Castellano probably made a bigger mistake in allowing the Genovese family to kill his captain in Connecticut (Frank Piccolo).

That guy in the Lucchaese family who ran the New Jersey faction that Casso whacked. Everyone in the family apparently loved him. What was his name again? Its escaped me.

Roy didnt seem the type to rat he was very similar to thomas pitera

You talking about Buddy Loungo? And he was from the Bronx faction.

Yup. Oh really? I must of got confused. Yeah I heard that he would of been a popular choice for boss.

You're talking about Anthony Accetturo, who eventually had a falling out with the Taccetta brothers and Vic Amuso/Casso.

Did he get whacked or did he flip? Its hard to keep up with who casso whacked or made flip

Anthony Accetturo did not get whacked. He flipped.

mAybe massino send sal vitale TO WHACK gerlando Sciascia it ended up with big ripple effects

He flipped and is supposedly alive and well, living off his ill - gotten gains as a member of the Witness Protection Program. The attempt to kill Accetturo and his son was one of the rare times when the mafia farmed out the hit, Casso paid a Cuban guy in Florida to find and kill the Accetturo's, but he wasn't able to do so.

I sill feel that Sonnie Black was a bad decision. Also, none other than Salvatore Testa.

...and I'm sure that Cuban guy ended up dead

Fred Weiss. The murder of Weiss, who was essentially a civilian brought immense heat. If Weiss had lived to testify (Gotti had suspicions) it would never have caused as much damage as there was after the murder. It's the reason Vinny Ocean and Anthony Capo (both NJ) flipped. It brought down the DeCavalcante family.

JCrusher, you have an interesting theory on DeMeo and Gotti. While I disagree for those reasons, Gambino soldiers have been heard lamenting DeMeo's death on wiretap, believing he was killed for nothing. In that sense I think you're right. Paul had the excuse of hitting DeMeo for breaking LCN law within the realm of earnings, but I think the family sensed it was more just 'because I can'. Nicky Scarfo's Salvie Testa hit (another good example) was the same thing. Technically he had motive when Salvie arrogantly broke off the wedding with Chuckie Merlino's daughter, but why wouldn't their respective families get nervous when powerhouse made men are knocked off just like that?

Joe Masseria didn't really think his murders through. He may not have realized how clannish the Castellammarese were or how they functioned as a sort of secret society that was practically built for banding together and surviving. Ordering the deaths of all of them whilst hitting his most influential lietenaunt, Gaetano Reina was certainly ill advised. Look how it came back to haunt him.

And murdering the Scalvo brothers sure didn't end well for young Billy McCarthy.

yea thats him

lmao amen to that, most were wacked tho lol

the infamous fred weiss hit, they have charged like half the gambino borgata and 90% of nj with that hit and they are STILL bringing out charges occassionally

I was under the impression that Roy was almost universally disliked by the rest of the Gambino's. Were the lamenters in the Demeo crew (and where can I read the wiretaps) ?

Outside of NY (in case anyone cares):

The St. Valentine's Day massacre was the end for Al. It brought more and heat and created the task force to get him. It did not end the Outfit, but it did end Al's leadership.

The Danny Green hit in Cleveland brought down the majority of that family. Although I suppose one could argue that the Shondor Burns hit started it all.

Same thing with Jimmy "Horseshoe" Michaels bombing in St. Louis. I was in 8th grade when they came to get his grandson out of class, then announced Jimmy had been bombed on the highway. That was the beginning of the end of the STL family.

Well considering how both Bruno and Phil Testa were killed only a few years before Scarfo decided to whack Salvie I would say being a little paranoid was in his best interest.

Tony:

I was unable to find it, it's one of those things you only find once. I do remember it was a low level soldier with no obvious ties to DeMeo claiming it was an unnecessary hit because of DeMeo's loyalty, which he harped on a lot. It was only a sentence or two, but he was scared by the fact that such a good and loyal earner was killed at the drop of a hat. It was more being scared for himself then missing DeMeo, as you're right he wasn't too popular. It was more of a 'that was fucked up, are we really safe?' moment. Usually I remember my sources, sorry about this one.



Haha, you bring up a good point. I'm a big Outfit/LA guy, but sometimes you have to try elsewhere for that. Never read about the St. Louis family, I'll start.

Some others, Allie Boy Persico whacking Wild Bill Cutolo, Amuso/Casso whacking the popular and big money earner Anthony Dilapi, they sent guys all the way out to California to whack him for christsake. I also thought it was poor decision by Gotti/Gravano to whack huge money makes like Robert DiBernardo and Louie DiBono for relatively minor offences.

You and I disagree alot on here but this is spot on. People do not understand what its like to live the life Roy did (money, freedom, pussy, playing god) and then to have it all snatched from you in an instant.

just because he was crazy and whacked 200 plus doesnt mean he could do a life term.

I couldnt agree more, Roy would have flipped.

I think the worst decision to whack someone was everyone. If you look at the history of LCN they always said that murder was a tool to keep the organization in line, its structure per say.

But then again, look at nearly every single wiseguy who has a life term or a 20 plus sentence, what is the one charge that they all have in common? Murder. The FBI typically builds its Rico cases around Racketerring(maybe 15-20 years) and murder(life).

Whacking guys is also the reason why alot of people flip. The Feds pin a murder on them, they flip. That and dealing drugs.

So in the end the "tool" that LCN uses to keep guys in line is nearly always the single charge that puts guys away for life.

History shows you that the so called "informants" or guys they thought would flip are always the names that are brought up at murder trials. So they killed them to keep them from flipping and in some cases maybe getting a 5-15 term and wind up getting life because they whacked them to avoid getting a smaller sentence. (not all cases, just an example). Most of the time even if its 20-30 years later they get pinned for the murder.

That to me is why nearly every murder in the history of LCN is the worst.

nice topic here's mine

Colombos: The Dols murder, the Peraino's, Cutolo
Bonnanos: Sciascia, Pizzolo
Lucchese: the "wack jeresy" order that got Riccardi et. al to flip, wacking Facciolo, DiLapi, Pappadio, the mistaken identity Nicky Guido hit
Gambino: definitely Weiss, DeBrizzi, DiBernardo... all senseless
Genovese: not sure

yeah the whack the entire jersey faction was absurd. i think tacetta was very smart having none of the jersey faction show up. how would have vic and gas explain how like 30 made men just vanished?

I dont think DeMeo would have flipped.
He was hatching a plan to fake his own death then flee abroad with his family (according to Albert DeMeo).
The feds would not have given Roy any deal.
Dom Montiglio returned to NY in mid 1983 to extort a guy and got busted where he told all.
The feds also had information from Vito Arena.
Why would the government make a pact with the devil (DeMeo) when they could make a case off the info from lesser men like Montiglio and Arena.
I've always said (and I'll say it again) that the Gemini twins did DeMeo a FAVOUR by whacking him.
If he had lived, 1983 would have been his last year as a free man.
DeMeo would probably be rotting in ADMAX now with Greg Scarpa Junior.

Trust me, Roy DeMeo had the last laugh on Joey and Anthony who are rotting in jail for the rest of their lives.

Yes GaryH we agree 100% on this, Roy got the best deal, For Senter and Testa what is the motivation for living? Every day in prison, and they went away at a young age, not like guys like Gotti, Persico, and Nicky Scarfo who at least had a large portion of their life on the outside before it was all over.

tacetta not having the jersey guys show up? what do you mean by that? i am confused...

i know that like three ejrsey guys showed up when vic and gas sent for them it was tommy ricciardi and two others showed up in ny, thats the whole story when they were told to go to another restaurant the location was changed and then al d'arco was threatening them saying there was a very bad rat in the family etc the jersey guys didnt think they were going to make it out