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Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: pizzaboy] #588716
12/19/10 07:06 PM
12/19/10 07:06 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mukremin
Sonny, do you know where i can get Witness to the Mob in the netherlands? Dutch subs ofcourse.


I bought my version here, region free but without dutch subs.

http://www.cdwow.com/DVD/witness-to-the-mob/dp/1581735#bc=921d

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Mukremin
Sonny, do you know where i can get Witness to the Mob in the netherlands? Dutch subs ofcourse.

It's available in 18 parts on Youtube. No Dutch subtitles, though.


The last parts are missing unfortunately.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: furio_from_naples] #588731
12/19/10 10:53 PM
12/19/10 10:53 PM
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JCrusher Offline
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Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
I think there were a series of bad choices. The first was Don Carlo Gambino, he thought, to lead the family, need a Sicilian, chose Castellano, for this reason, and because was also his relative, instead of best Aniello DellaCroce, but it was a Neapolitan. On the death of Gambino, Castellano became boss, however, had not the qualities to be a great boss, he was a white collar that a streetman, it's attracted the hate of his own soldiers.
A typical case was DeMeo.Roy Roy was a butcher, and a serial killer, but he make a lot of money, is said he controll with the family DeCavalcante the 90% of pornography in New york.Castellano hated Demeo, but accepted the percentage on the drug (if in pubblic, he banned it), the carthefts and murders committed by his gang. But when Roy succeeded in concluding an alliance with the Westies, the the terrible Irish mafia gang, Castellano was forced to made him in 1978.
When they became uncontrollable ordered his death in 1983, and it is said that at the beginning, there was no one who had the courage to do kill him.Until DellaCroce was alive, Gotti didn't have the courage to do nothing, but to his death, there was Gotti still nothing from taking power.

Castellano's Death Certificate





Castellano's death scene photo


There are a few things I wanted to clear up. When Carlo named his successor dellacroce was in prison so i think he wanted someone who didn't have much heat with the law. Also roy demeo was made in 1977 after the Westies alliance which took place after he killed Mickey Spillane in May 1977.

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: pizzaboy] #588747
12/20/10 06:48 AM
12/20/10 06:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Lilo
Obviously times change but if he's the boss and gave someone a direct order to give him tapes either he should have had those tapes the next day or someone should have been digging a grave on Arthur Kill Road..

Arthur Kill Road, Lilo?

I see that someone in Michigan has been using the Google Map app on his iPhone grin.

Well done!


LOL...that or just reading "Nothing but Money" cool


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungleā€”as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: Lilo] #588789
12/20/10 05:44 PM
12/20/10 05:44 PM
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GerryLang Offline
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Did Castellano do any real time in prison during his life? I read Boss of Bosses years ago, I don't remember much of it, the parts of it still with me are about Paul and his maid Gloria, and him getting the penis pump. I thought it was distasteful the FBI even brought that kind of stuff up, it had nothing to do with Paul Castellano boss of the Gambino family. You ever notice the media tends to paint Gotti's time as boss as extremely murderous, but in reality there were loads more killings under Big Paul's reign. I think Paul had his daughters boyfriend killed for saying he looks like Frank Perdue, think Joe Massino had a part in it. Then he had his son inlaw killed for abusing his daughter.

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: GerryLang] #588791
12/20/10 05:52 PM
12/20/10 05:52 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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I believe Paul was only shortly jailed when he was a teenager in the 1930s.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: GerryLang] #588809
12/20/10 10:36 PM
12/20/10 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Did Castellano do any real time in prison during his life? I read Boss of Bosses years ago, I don't remember much of it, the parts of it still with me are about Paul and his maid Gloria, and him getting the penis pump. I thought it was distasteful the FBI even brought that kind of stuff up, it had nothing to do with Paul Castellano boss of the Gambino family. You ever notice the media tends to paint Gotti's time as boss as extremely murderous, but in reality there were loads more killings under Big Paul's reign. I think Paul had his daughters boyfriend killed for saying he looks like Frank Perdue, think Joe Massino had a part in it. Then he had his son inlaw killed for abusing his daughter.


Paul did a few months in jail as a teenger for a robbery but he didn't cooperate so that earning him respect. he also did some time after the Apalachin meeting. He was caught fleeing a spent like a year or two in jail. I agree with you about Paul's reign. Despite some peoplen claiming he didn't like violence he ordered countless murders. Even John Gotti who is known as a murderous tough guy didn't come close to the amount of murders during Paul's reign.

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: Sonny_Black] #588824
12/21/10 04:48 AM
12/21/10 04:48 AM
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Northumberland England
GaryH Offline
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Frank Amato (son in law) was the stupidiest guy on earth.
What did he think would happen when he started abusing the big bosses daughter?
Castellano had DeMeo take him out.

Big Paul got jailed as a youngster for a bungled liquor store raid, he didnt serve very long though

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: JCrusher] #588879
12/21/10 01:54 PM
12/21/10 01:54 PM
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GerryLang Offline
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Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Did Castellano do any real time in prison during his life? I read Boss of Bosses years ago, I don't remember much of it, the parts of it still with me are about Paul and his maid Gloria, and him getting the penis pump. I thought it was distasteful the FBI even brought that kind of stuff up, it had nothing to do with Paul Castellano boss of the Gambino family. You ever notice the media tends to paint Gotti's time as boss as extremely murderous, but in reality there were loads more killings under Big Paul's reign. I think Paul had his daughters boyfriend killed for saying he looks like Frank Perdue, think Joe Massino had a part in it. Then he had his son inlaw killed for abusing his daughter.


Paul did a few months in jail as a teenger for a robbery but he didn't cooperate so that earning him respect. he also did some time after the Apalachin meeting. He was caught fleeing a spent like a year or two in jail. I agree with you about Paul's reign. Despite some peoplen claiming he didn't like violence he ordered countless murders. Even John Gotti who is known as a murderous tough guy didn't come close to the amount of murders during Paul's reign.


Yes, it shows you how bad the media can distort things. There were probably hundreds of people killed by the Gambino's under Paul's watch, but Gotti is blood lusting lunatic!

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: GerryLang] #588913
12/21/10 09:07 PM
12/21/10 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Did Castellano do any real time in prison during his life? I read Boss of Bosses years ago, I don't remember much of it, the parts of it still with me are about Paul and his maid Gloria, and him getting the penis pump. I thought it was distasteful the FBI even brought that kind of stuff up, it had nothing to do with Paul Castellano boss of the Gambino family. You ever notice the media tends to paint Gotti's time as boss as extremely murderous, but in reality there were loads more killings under Big Paul's reign. I think Paul had his daughters boyfriend killed for saying he looks like Frank Perdue, think Joe Massino had a part in it. Then he had his son inlaw killed for abusing his daughter.


Paul did a few months in jail as a teenger for a robbery but he didn't cooperate so that earning him respect. he also did some time after the Apalachin meeting. He was caught fleeing a spent like a year or two in jail. I agree with you about Paul's reign. Despite some peoplen claiming he didn't like violence he ordered countless murders. Even John Gotti who is known as a murderous tough guy didn't come close to the amount of murders during Paul's reign.


Yes, it shows you how bad the media can distort things. There were probably hundreds of people killed by the Gambino's under Paul's watch, but Gotti is blood lusting lunatic!

Well I still think Gotti was a lunatic. It's just that by the time he became boss it was harder to whack people than in the 70's early 80's because technology was improving for the FBi and criminal investigation unit

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: Lilo] #588956
12/22/10 01:39 PM
12/22/10 01:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
goombah Offline OP
goombah  Offline OP

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Originally Posted By: Lilo
Originally Posted By: goombah
I think a couple of factors, Lilo. One, Big Paul was under indictment himself and probably preoccupied with his own headaches. Second, similar to the GF trilogy, Castellano underestimated Gotti and those who might conspire against him. According to "Gangland," Gotti was livid that Castellano did not attend the funeral of Underboss Neil Dellacroce. It did not go unnoticed by big earners like Gotti, Gravanno, & DeCiccio that Big Paul rarely shared the wealth he was accumulating from his captains and soldiers.

Neil Dellacroce was also helping stonewall Big Paul from getting the Ruggerio tapes in order to protect his protegee, John Gotti. The tapes showed that both Quack Quack Ruggierio and Gotti were dealing heroin against Castellano's strict prohibition.

Lastly I think part of it was Big Paul's arrogance. The Gambino leader was the Boss of Bosses, which was a title highly regarded in Cosa Nostra and not someone to go after on a whim.


Those are all excellent points, goombah. I guess Paul really was ultimately not that quick when it came to some things. As you say, arrogant. Obviously times change but if he's the boss and gave someone a direct order to give him tapes either he should have had those tapes the next day or someone should have been digging a grave on Arthur Kill Road..


I think I misspoke about the tapes. It wasn't that Fat Ange refused to turn over the tapes. The government had them. Paul was pressing Fat Ange & Gotti to tell Paul what was discussed on the tapes. They stonewalled Big Paul, with the help of Neil Dellacroce. Don't get me wrong - it was still a big risk to not capitulate to Big Paul. He even told Gotti that if it was proven on the tapes that John Gotti was moving heroin (he was), then Paul would have him killed. Castellano referred to this rule as his First Commandment - "you deal, you die."

Because you're right, Lilo. If one disobeyed the head of the Family, that person would not be seen alive again.

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: goombah] #588975
12/22/10 07:32 PM
12/22/10 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: goombah
Originally Posted By: Lilo
Originally Posted By: goombah
I think a couple of factors, Lilo. One, Big Paul was under indictment himself and probably preoccupied with his own headaches. Second, similar to the GF trilogy, Castellano underestimated Gotti and those who might conspire against him. According to "Gangland," Gotti was livid that Castellano did not attend the funeral of Underboss Neil Dellacroce. It did not go unnoticed by big earners like Gotti, Gravanno, & DeCiccio that Big Paul rarely shared the wealth he was accumulating from his captains and soldiers.

Neil Dellacroce was also helping stonewall Big Paul from getting the Ruggerio tapes in order to protect his protegee, John Gotti. The tapes showed that both Quack Quack Ruggierio and Gotti were dealing heroin against Castellano's strict prohibition.

Lastly I think part of it was Big Paul's arrogance. The Gambino leader was the Boss of Bosses, which was a title highly regarded in Cosa Nostra and not someone to go after on a whim.


Those are all excellent points, goombah. I guess Paul really was ultimately not that quick when it came to some things. As you say, arrogant. Obviously times change but if he's the boss and gave someone a direct order to give him tapes either he should have had those tapes the next day or someone should have been digging a grave on Arthur Kill Road..


I think I misspoke about the tapes. It wasn't that Fat Ange refused to turn over the tapes. The government had them. Paul was pressing Fat Ange & Gotti to tell Paul what was discussed on the tapes. They stonewalled Big Paul, with the help of Neil Dellacroce. Don't get me wrong - it was still a big risk to not capitulate to Big Paul. He even told Gotti that if it was proven on the tapes that John Gotti was moving heroin (he was), then Paul would have him killed. Castellano referred to this rule as his First Commandment - "you deal, you die."

Because you're right, Lilo. If one disobeyed the head of the Family, that person would not be seen alive again.

I agree. Also it should be said that John gotti was scared of Paul especially early on. Of course he acted like he was tough behind his back but i read that when Big paul called john to a meeting John would get nervous and say, What did I do" This was when Paul had the demeo crew and the Cherry hill gambinos at his disposal. Gotti was lucky he had Dellacroce to protect him. However, i think if Paul ordered Neil to whack out Gotti he would have since he was a mafia loyalist but at that point he was too sick too take any action

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: JCrusher] #589061
12/24/10 07:35 PM
12/24/10 07:35 PM
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Northumberland England
GaryH Offline
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Dellacroce is the only reason Gotti remained among the living.

Its no coincedence that barely that 2 weeks after Neils death, Gotti had to move on Paul before Paul moved on him

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: GaryH] #589086
12/25/10 05:39 PM
12/25/10 05:39 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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The funny thing is, that if Carlo Gambino decided to make Neil the boss, Gotti would have been the boss in dec 1985 anyway. smile


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: Sonny_Black] #589087
12/25/10 05:53 PM
12/25/10 05:53 PM
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GerryLang Offline
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I caught some bits and pieces of the Mobsters bio on Paul Castellano,he got charged with contempt, and was sentenced to five years, but only did seven months, I think he won an appeal. So big Paul did do some jail time, and kept his mouth shut earning the reputation as a stand up guy.

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: GerryLang] #589138
12/26/10 01:52 PM
12/26/10 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: GerryLang
I caught some bits and pieces of the Mobsters bio on Paul Castellano,he got charged with contempt, and was sentenced to five years, but only did seven months, I think he won an appeal. So big Paul did do some jail time, and kept his mouth shut earning the reputation as a stand up guy.

Ya ur right. Even though most people portray him as as kind of a corporate kind og guy he was still a gangster. He may have been greedy but he had the smarts to be a boss as well as the mean streak. I guarantee if Paul was under investigation in the Commission case he would have whacked out Gotti and Angelo. Who knows maybe the mob would still be a force if that happened

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: JCrusher] #589186
12/27/10 05:44 AM
12/27/10 05:44 AM
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Northumberland England
GaryH Offline
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I guarantee if Paul was under investigation in the Commission case he would have whacked out Gotti and Angelo. Who knows maybe the mob would still be a force if that happened

Thats exactly what Paul was going to do but Dellacroce kept stalling and putting him off by saying things like "I'm working on it Paul" or "I'm still looking into it and making enquires Paul".
When Dellacroce died, Gotti knew he had lost his guardian angel and that he had to kill or be killed!

Re: 25 year anniversary of Paul Castellano's murder [Re: GaryH] #589221
12/27/10 03:55 PM
12/27/10 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: GaryH
I guarantee if Paul was under investigation in the Commission case he would have whacked out Gotti and Angelo. Who knows maybe the mob would still be a force if that happened

Thats exactly what Paul was going to do but Dellacroce kept stalling and putting him off by saying things like "I'm working on it Paul" or "I'm still looking into it and making enquires Paul".
When Dellacroce died, Gotti knew he had lost his guardian angel and that he had to kill or be killed!

yes thats true. I guess you have to give Gotti credit with the initiative. I think the reason why it happened was because everything fell in the favor for Gotti. From demeo being gone as well as nino gaggi, and also paul was under the microscope. gotti wasn't a big target at that time so it was easy for him to pull this off

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