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Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Ice] #586044
11/17/10 08:58 PM
11/17/10 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ice
But when I'm not playing social contrarian I do like to make a few honest bucks off the stock market, just like my man Jim Cramer over there at CNBC. Cramer certainly supports Ben Bernanke and the Fed's second phase of quantitative easing and as investor I do too and so should you.


So, we should let our government buy and control more companies like they do in countries like France, Italy, or Germany?! Not a good idea IMO.

No offense to Jim Cramer and his Goldman Sachs mouth, but I much prefer the logic of real, world-renown economists like Melchior Palyi who characterize quantitative easing as "a sort of Santa Claus to the economic system" that can lead to "runaway inflation" and a concentration of too much power in too few hands.

Mr. Palyi (chief economic adviser to the German central bank the during financial reconstruction of Germany after the hyperinflation of the early 1920's) was fond of saying that sooner or later, too much credit always turns into a giant debit as borrowers crumple under the burden of escalating interest payments. And that's a warning this entire country would do well to heed right now.

Btw: 45 days until the New Year and investors have no idea what next year's new tax rates will be. rolleyes

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Ice] #586045
11/17/10 09:02 PM
11/17/10 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ice
Inflation is what the F*ck's going on the with the Economy right now



US Inflation Rate:

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep
2010 2.63% 2.14% 2.31% 2.24% 2.02% 1.05% 1.24% 1.15% 1.14%

Oh God! Not 1.14%! How shall we survive?


Last edited by olivant; 11/17/10 09:02 PM.

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Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: olivant] #586046
11/17/10 09:12 PM
11/17/10 09:12 PM
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oliva, the entire world is engaging in currency inflation right now; the U.S just happens be coming down from a period of deflation.

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #586168
11/19/10 02:27 PM
11/19/10 02:27 PM
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Inflation will indeed be a big problem (for US) down the road, but we'll probably have plenty of time to head it off; Europe is doing really bad on one hand, yet really good in others despite the immense amount of bailout and inflationary pressure it's facing, but it's hard to get a clear assessment of that situation (tho the Irish, Greeks, and Spanish are all on Defcom 1 pretty much economically right now).

But back to this quantitative easing: Since the wake of quantitative easing 1, 17-year U.S. treasury bonds are down 3 basis points while 7-year treasury bonds are UP about 17 points. Too many short term investors right now, trying to make a quick buck off the market and QE. But that's what happens when you live in a world with supercomputers hedging against the market's every move, opposed to honest, genuine old-fashioned investing.

Has anyone seen the second Wall Street film? I haven't, but the one thing on Wall Street that has changed more than anything in the 20+ years since the first film is the New York stock exchange trading floor -- in that it doesn't really exist anymore. I mean, it does, there are still traders and brokers there, but nothing like it was in the 80's. It's all digitized with investment decisions based on computerized data of past and future market movements and fluctuations.

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #586476
11/23/10 02:16 PM
11/23/10 02:16 PM
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Velma Hart has lost her job

Velma Hart, Who Questioned Obama's Policies, Loses Job
Tuesday, 23 Nov 2010 | 6:51 AM ET
By: John Harwood


Velma Hart, who told President Obama she was "exhausted" of defending him and became the face of disappointed Americans this fall, has lost her job.

In another casualty of a weak national economy, Ms. Hart learned late last week that she'd been laid off as chief financial officer of AmVets, a non-profit veterans service organization based outside of Washington, D.C.

"They called me in on a Friday afternoon," Ms. Hart told CNBC in an interview on Monday, "and said they had made a decision...we should make that cut."

Hart will be on CNBC Tuesday at 1:30 pm ET.

Even when she addressed Obama in a September 20 CNBC town hall meeting on the economy, Ms. Hart knew that the recent recession had put her job in danger through its dampening effect on donations, memberships and sponsorships at AmVets. She had hoped to remain on the job to help AmVets weather the financial storm, but instead became one of its casualties.

A spokesman for AmVets confirmed that Ms. Hart's layoff was "an economic decision that had nothing to do with her job performance." A White House spokeswoman had no comment.

The painful news caps a roller-coaster autumn for Ms. Hart. Her statement to Mr. Obama at the Town Hall drew immense national media exposure, from networks news programs to Comedy Central's The Daily Show to a profile in her hometown newspaper, The Washington Post.

The Hollywood actor Jamie Foxx even felt the need to rebut Ms. Hart's comment at a campaign rally for Mr. Obama in Los Angeles last month.

"What's in my heart is now, even more than I did before, I appreciate what millions of people who are in my condition now have been experiencing for the last two, three, four years," Ms. Hart said at the kitchen table of her home in Upper Marlboro, MD. "Of course I'm afraid. Everybody's a little afraid."

"I don't take lightly the fact that I know friends who've been looking for jobs for two years," she added. "Could it take me two years to find a job? Wow, that's a scary proposition for me and my family."

Ms. Hart said she continues to support Obama, though she worries he's been hurt by the recent midterm elections. As she and her family cope with her new financial setback, she plans to explore the administration's mortgage loan-modification program.

This Thanksgiving week, however, the wife and mother of two teenage girls is trying to remain upbeat.

"I'm a data-driven person," she said. "The data says the economy's getting better."

"I want to focus on the positive and be optimistic," she concluded. "And assume that somehow things will work out, that there's an opportunity out there with Velma's name on it that's right around the corner."

If you have job advice or ideas for Velma Hart, email us: PowerLunch@CNBC.com

http://www.cnbc.com/id/40324591

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #586552
11/24/10 03:19 PM
11/24/10 03:19 PM
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olivant Offline
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Since we are a little more tha 30 days away from the end of the year, keep in mind that without appropriate Congressional action, federal income taxes will rise. Thus, your withholding will rise unless you anticipate an adjustment.


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Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #586817
11/29/10 11:27 AM
11/29/10 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
oliva, the entire world is engaging in currency inflation right now; the U.S just happens be coming down from a period of deflation.
Still, vant's correct, inflation will never be a huge problem in the U.S. because we are not a commoditites based economy. China on the otherhand, which had about a 60 point year-on-year inflation this year, is very much commodities based. We're more stock oriented and only had about a 20(?) point year-on-year inflation.



Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Ice] #586855
11/29/10 05:33 PM
11/29/10 05:33 PM
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Once I lived the life of a millionaire
Spending my money I didn't care
Taking out my friends for a real good time
Buying bootleg whiskey, champagne and wine

And then I began to fall so low
No more friends and no place to go
If I ever get my hands on a dollar again
I'm going to hold on to it until that eagle grins...


Family's Fall From Affluence


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Lilo] #587125
12/02/10 06:52 PM
12/02/10 06:52 PM
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Interesting read, Li. It's hard for honest hard working people in places like Michigan and Indiana to not hang on to every dollar right now when things are so tough, and yet, the U.S. is currently in the process of borrowing more $$$ from China, so as to give it to the IMF, who in turn will give it to social welfare states in Europe like Ireland, Port. Spain and Greece to help with bank bailouts--just like the same bank bailouts we had in this country.

It's on Germany to really decide whether it will help with bank bailouts to its sister southern euro states (of course Germany benefits from weak euro; increases their exports); while England is pretty content they rejected that whole euro notion to begin with...

And yes, here our government is reducing longterm interest rates by purchasing debt, and this technically stimulates growth, but they're buying that debt at a much higher price than the very debt was auctioned at back in August.



Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Ice] #587126
12/02/10 06:53 PM
12/02/10 06:53 PM
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Pepsi to Buy Russian Drinks Giant

By GUY CHAZAN, DANA CIMILLUCA And BETSY MCKAY
DECEMBER 2, 2010, 4:45 P.M. ET.

PepsiCo Inc. is buying Russian dairy products and fruit-juice maker OAO Wimm-Bill-Dann in a deal valuing the company at $5.4 billion, marking one of the biggest foreign investments in Russia outside the energy sector.

The deal, PepsiCo's second-largest acquisition ever after its 2001 purchase of Quaker Oats Co., will establish the U.S. company as the biggest food-and-beverage business in Russia and a leader in the country's fast-growing dairy market. Russia will become PepsiCo's largest market outside the U.S., supplying about $5 billion in annual revenue.

The company, which is also No. 3 in juice and No. 1 in baby food, has long been seen as an acquisition target. Its shares are traded in Moscow and on the New York Stock Exchange.

The deal is a sign that recent efforts by the Kremlin to attract foreign investment are yielding results. It also reflects fierce competition between Pepsi and Coca-Cola Co. to win consumers in an important emerging market where the two have battled often neck and neck for beverage market share. Pepsi-Cola became the first Western branded consumer product to be made in the Soviet Union in 1974, 15 years after Premier Nikita Khruschev sampled the drink at an exhibition in Moscow.

More recently, the rivalry moved to juices. Coke bought fruit-juice maker Multon Co. for about $500 million in 2005, and Pepsi hit back with a $2 billion acquisition of OAO Lebedyansky in 2009. In September, Coke countered by buying Nidan Soki, another large juice maker, for an undisclosed sum. Coke doesn't market dairy products in Russia.

PepsiCo said acquiring Wimm-Bill-Dann will increase its annual revenue from nutritious and "functional" foods from around $10 billion today to nearly $13 billion, bringing it closer to its goal of $30 billion in annual sales of health-oriented drinks and snacks by 2020.

"It gives us a meaningful position in one of the most attractive global food and beverage categories—the fast-growing dairy category," Indra Nooyi, PepsiCo's chairman and chief executive, said on an investor conference call Thursday.

"This is a great vote of confidence in Russia—a sign that it's open for business," said Tony Maher, WBD's CEO, in an interview.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin endorsed the deal, a person familiar with the matter said.

Formed in 1992, Wimm-Bill-Dann was one of the first indigenous Russian companies to produce fruit juice—a brand called J7 that quickly took off, reflecting Russians' thirst both for juice and Western-sounding products. The company later shifted its lineup as Russian tastes turned back to home-grown products, building popular brands such as the dairy range "Domik v derevne"—"little house in the country."

The company became a popular pick among investors seeking exposure to Russia's rapidly-growing consumer market, listing its shares on the New York Stock Exchange in 2002. It now has more than 16,000 employees and 38 production facilities.

Full Article



Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Ice] #587172
12/03/10 11:47 AM
12/03/10 11:47 AM
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Lilo Offline
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UE Rate rose to 9.8% in November.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Ice] #587178
12/03/10 01:44 PM
12/03/10 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ice
Marc, we're bigger than U.S. Steel -Reed Hastings
Netflix growth dwarfs U.S. Steel Giants'

I think that stock and that company is a walking dead man. There's nothing proprietary about their systems and they won't be able to maneuver through the privately owned internetz like they did the postal service. If you look at their sheet they recently spent a billion dollars but only made about 150 mil in the past 3 quarters.

In short, with all of the streaming that goes on today I'd say Netflix could be a year away from getting blockbustered out of business themselves.

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #587179
12/03/10 01:47 PM
12/03/10 01:47 PM
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There's always unemployment even during good years what with so many jobs shipped overseas, but 9.8 is a pretty scary number. China is always growing but even they're tightening it right now, and it seems the U.S. is conceding there is no room for growth and that we're just going to tighten our belts as well and go back to square one. All of the central banks in the world right now are indeed lining up behind the Fed to see who can print the most money. Not good.

But don't count on me to buy mom jeans at K-Mart this Holiday Season. I'll stick with Nordstrom (another great stock, btw).

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #587277
12/04/10 01:49 PM
12/04/10 01:49 PM
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olivant Offline
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Read this report on why businesses are not hiring. It makes alot of sense. A key reason is that output has remained the same despite a reduced workforce. In additon, that output has remained the same is direct evidence that demand has stagnated or been reduced and that is another key reason why employers are not hiring.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/03/news/economy/employers_doing_more_with_less/index.htm?hpt=T2


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"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: olivant] #587415
12/06/10 04:17 PM
12/06/10 04:17 PM
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Iran's 'Free Zone' Island is a Tourist Wonderland
Monday 6 Dec 2010 | 1:56 PM ET
Andrew Burke Special to CNBC.com

Kish is a desert island in the Persian Gulf that has been transformed into a tourist wonderland — for Iranians. It's clean, the shopping is cheap because it's a free-trade zone and there are dedicated beaches for men and women, making it one of only a couple of beach destinations in the Islamic Republic.

Iranians see Kish the way Americans do Hawaii: the island is both a novelty — for most Iranians this is the only beach resort they’ll ever be able to visit — and generally more liberated than the rest of Iran. As one islander told us, many Iranians understand the "free" in free-trade zone to apply to social activities as well. But for foreigners, used to swimming and sunbathing with men and women and with no interest in duty-free DVD players, the appeal isn’t so great.

In recent years, the 10-mile-long, five-mile-wide island has been booming. Hotels, shopping centers and theme parks have emerged from the sand to cater to migrant workers on "change visa" runs and more than 1 million Iranians a year. And while UN-backed sanctions against Iran over its nuclear program have had a serious impact on the mainland, reports out of Kish suggest that investment in the island — primarily in construction of tourist facilities but also in a natural gas project — continues although at a reduced pace.

Aside from the novelty of getting into Iran (no small accomplishment for most Americans, for whom getting a visa to the mainland is usually a hassle), there are reasons to visit Kish. There are a few interesting historical sights, such as the Payab cisterns built to store fresh water. The coastal bike path is fun as long as it's not summer. The shopping, which is possibly the biggest attraction, is often cheaper than Dubai, even though much of the merchandise comes from the emirate.

Kish Island is first recorded in the memoirs of Nearchus, the Greek sailor commissioned by Alexander the Great to explore the Persian Gulf in 325 BC. In the Middle Ages Kish became an important trading center under its own powerful Arab dynasty, and at one time supported a population of 40,000. The main town was Harireh, which is believed to be the town referred to by poet Sa'di in his famous work, Golestan (Rose Garden).

Kish was known for the quality of its pearls; when Marco Polo was visiting the imperial court in China, he remarked on the beauty of the pearls worn by one of the emperor's wives and was told they had come from Kish. In the 14th century Kish fell into decline and remained obscure until the 1970s, when the last shah started transforming it into a playground for the rich and famous.

It was quite a turnaround, too. A couple of quiet fishing villages were soon complemented by an international airport, a beachfront hotel that was at the time the most luxurious in the Gulf, and even a grand casino. Concorde was chartered to ferry guests in from Paris, and pre-revolution Kish was one of the most exciting destinations in the region.

After the 1979 revolution, the casino, the bikinis and the cocktails were no more and the focus changed to domestic tourism and trade. These days Kish has more than 50 hotels, several theme parks and numerous shopping malls.

Have something to say about our special series, The Forbidden Zone? Send us an email.

Full Article



Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: olivant] #587581
12/08/10 06:59 PM
12/08/10 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Read this report on why businesses are not hiring. It makes alot of sense. A key reason is that output has remained the same despite a reduced workforce. In additon, that output has remained the same is direct evidence that demand has stagnated or been reduced and that is another key reason why employers are not hiring.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/03/news/economy/employers_doing_more_with_less/index.htm?hpt=T2


The rest of the world is producing engineers, and we're simply not.
We tell our kids to get two or three degrees, but in what? Usually in fields that don't particularly pay well.

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #587584
12/08/10 07:22 PM
12/08/10 07:22 PM
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Why should we? They can't get jobs. We have some of the best engineering schools in the world, and their graduates can't find jobs. The reason? Their jobs have been outsourced.

My husband was a production manager in a manufacturing plant. The plant closed in 1992, following a trend, as most manufacturing has been outsourced to Asian countries. He went back to school, got a masters degree in telecommunications and became a network engineer. He started a new career at the age of 30, right at entry level and worked his way up. Guess what? His entire department has been outsourced to an Asian company and he is the last man left, to work as a liaison with the outside company.

How many times should we send our workers back to school for new skills and different degrees? Now we're outsourcing legal and even medical jobs. If we want our economy to grow, we need to have jobs. What field is left??


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Sicilian Babe] #587590
12/08/10 08:00 PM
12/08/10 08:00 PM
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A new recession? Are they fucking kidding me? eek

White House warns tax defeat could trigger new recession

By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Charles Babington,

WASHINGTON – Raising the direst alarm yet, the Obama administration warned fellow Democrats on Wednesday that if they defeat the big tax-cut compromise detested by many liberals, they could jolt the nation back into recession.

President Barack Obama appealed anew for Congress to "get this done" and insisted that more congressional Democrats would climb aboard as they studied details of the $900 billion year-end measure. Several did announce support on Wednesday, but at least one said there still was "a mood to resist."

One Democratic opponent, Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, forecast a result that would abruptly reverse Congress' voting pattern of the first two years of Obama's term: "It will be passed by virtually all the Republicans and a minority of Democrats." He said he would vote against it.

Larry Summers, Obama's chief economic adviser, told reporters that if the measure isn't passed soon, it will "materially increase the risk the economy would stall out and we would have a double-dip" recession. That put the White House in the unusual position of warning its own party's lawmakers they could be to blame for calamitous consequences if they go against the president.

With many House and Senate Republicans signaling their approval of the tax cut plan, the White House's comments were aimed mainly at House Democrats who feel Obama went too far in yielding to Republicans' demands for continued income tax cuts and lower estate taxes for the wealthy.

Obama says the compromise was necessary because Republicans were prepared to let everyone's taxes rise and to block the extension of unemployment benefits for jobless Americans if they didn't get much of what they wanted.

Economists say the recent recession officially ended in June 2009. But with unemployment at 9.8 percent, millions remain out of work or fearful of losing ground economically, and the notion of the nation falling back into a recession would strike many as chilling. It also could rattle markets and investors.

The deal Obama crafted with Senate Republican leaders would prevent the scheduled Dec. 31 expiration of all the Bush administration's tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003, even though Obama had often promised to end the cuts for the highest earners.

Summers' remarks contrasted with Obama's comments at a news conference Tuesday. "We don't have the danger of a double-dip recession," the president said then, noting the impact of the 2009 stimulus bill and other measures meant to steady the economy.

Obama again urged unhappy Democrats to swallow the compromise, and denied that he went overboard to appease Republicans. "I think it is inaccurate to characterize Democrats, writ large, as quote-unquote betrayed," he said Wednesday.

He said a number of Democrats "have said this makes sense. And I think the more they look at it, the more of them are going to say this makes sense."

Three straight days of multi-pronged White House efforts to weaken Democrats' resistance did appear to start having the desired effect.

"In my opinion, a strong leader is one who knows when to compromise," said Rep. Michael E. McMahon, D-N.Y., in announcing his support for the plan.

Frank, still an opponent, said Democrats under House Speaker Nancy Pelosi do not subscribe to former GOP Speaker Dennis Hastert's policy of passing major bills only if most of his party's members supported them. Such a stance, which essentially renders the minority party irrelevant, "is very antidemocratic, hyperpartisan," Frank said.

House Democrats, who will lose their majority in January, still hold a 255-179 edge in the current Congress. To pass a big bill with mostly Republican votes would mark a dramatic departure from recent battles, such as the health care overhaul, which was enacted with virtually no GOP support in either chamber.

Pelosi and other House Democratic leaders continued to remain outwardly neutral to the tax cut compromise, criticizing some aspects but stopping short of urging or predicting its demise.

For a second straight day Wednesday, Vice President Joe Biden traveled to the Capitol to meet privately with Democrats — this time in the House, after visiting senators on Tuesday. Aides distributed a color-coded chart labeled "what we got," and "what they got," indicating that Democrats won more concessions in the tax deal than did Republicans.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said he still had reservations about the package, indicating he hopes changes are made before the Senate acts.

"We'll see what the Senate passes," Hoyer said.

Biden took a tough stance, warning that any changes might unravel the compromise plan, said several House Democrats who attended the meeting. "The vice president said, 'this is the deal, take it or leave it,'" said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif.

The White House ballyhooed almost any elected Democrat who endorsed the tax plan, with no state or city too small to justify a press release. Vermont Gov. Jim Douglas and Charlotte, N.C., Mayor Anthony Foxx were among those praising the plan, the White House announced.

But many House Democrats were unmoved. They particularly criticized Obama's proposed estate tax rates, which are far more generous than most Democrats had expected. The concession seemed gratuitous, said Rep. David Price, D-N.C. For now, he said, "there's a mood to resist" the overall package.

Also, a co-leader of Obama's deficit-reduction commission said he was deeply disappointed that the tax agreement includes no firm commitment for long-term federal fiscal restraint. Erskine Bowles, a chief of staff in the Clinton White House, made the remarks at a Wyoming event.

Passage of Obama's plan seems more assured in the Senate, where numerous Democrats have agreed that the president had little choice in making the compromise with Republicans. Still, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he and colleagues are considering possible changes, and action could come within days.

Changes designed to ease some Democrats' concerns might include a provision for bonds to help state and local governments pay for construction projects, tax breaks for wind power and clean-energy subsidies, lawmakers said.

___

Associated Press writers David Espo, Julie Hirschfeld Davis, Ben Feller, Stephen Ohlemacher and Erica


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: pizzaboy] #587594
12/08/10 08:56 PM
12/08/10 08:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
ronnierocketAGO  Offline
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Clinton made tax/budget deals with the GOP in the 1990s, what exactly is wrong here with this particular deal?

Hell the Tax shit out of the way, this it allows DADT to finally get repealed, that stupid bullshit.

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #587597
12/08/10 10:14 PM
12/08/10 10:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO
Clinton made tax/budget deals with the GOP in the 1990s, what exactly is wrong here with this particular deal?


The issue is that what the President seems to consider reasonable compromise many people (and not just the left) see as capitulation or cowardice. He gives away the store before negotiations even start then gives more and calls that sharp trading. I would never want him advising me when I'm trying to buy a new car. It's not just the latest deal but a list of past compromises which his base swallowed hard and accepted. But this one may go too far.

After an announced deal when one side is wailing and moaning and the other side is doing the Electric Slide in the end zone perhaps your slick dealing could stand a little greasing...

Then he has the unmitigated gall to put some bass in his voice when he's lecturing his supporters? Inconceivable.

Most, not all but most of the things in this proposed deal are things that the right wanted, not the left. And the deal does nothing for the 99ers or any future 99ers. It cuts the payroll tax which funds Social Security and will make it more difficult to protect it from those on the Right who want to "save" it. Is it possible that many on the left are whiny delusional dummies? Well yes. whistle

But on the other hand some things are worth a fight...

Does this man have real balls the Don asked.. Finally Hagen translated the question properly. Did { The President} have the balls to risk everything, to run the chance of losing all on a matter of principle, on a matter of honor... Hagen smiled..."You're asking if he is a Sicilian".. The Don nodded pleasantly, acknowledging the flattering witticism and its truth. "No", Hagen said.



"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Lilo] #587603
12/09/10 01:11 AM
12/09/10 01:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
R
ronnierocketAGO Offline
ronnierocketAGO  Offline
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Lilo

The issue is that what the President seems to consider reasonable compromise many people (and not just the left) see as capitulation or cowardice. He gives away the store before negotiations even start then gives more and calls that sharp trading. I would never want him advising me when I'm trying to buy a new car. It's not just the latest deal but a list of past compromises which his base swallowed hard and accepted. But this one may go too far.


Sorry but I must say it but: Knee-jerk.

Look at this politically: For the last two years, FNC/GOP have painted Obama as the socialist terrorist devil, the reincarnation of Hitler and Stalin mixed with chocolate. He must be stopped!

And they made a deal with him. Imagine McConnell having to go on Sean Hannity and sell to that partisan insane base on why this deal is worth passing.

Remember this was the same shit which happened under Clinton, but of course that is the difference, isn't it Lilo? Liberals were just happy that a national Democratic candidate won for once when Bubba won. With Obama, they (or thought at least) smelled a change, a political wash-over as politically impactful (and as mythically fictional) as the Reagan Revolution.

But none the less, Obama has the same opportunity as Bubba to triangulate against the GOP. Doesn't mean he necessarily will, but look at how right wing, even moreso than Dubya's Presidency in some fronts he is on Foreign Policy. A very cynical opinion, but I wonder if a reason behind the Afghanistan escalation was to blunt any GOP/NeoCon criticism of him going soft on the War on Terror. Notice how Obama abandoned the public trials for terrorists.

Or to put it another: Obama effectively made the GOP agree to a Second Stimulus. If this passes, what will the GOP argue in '12?

Originally Posted By: Lilo


Then he has the unmitigated gall to put some bass in his voice when he's lecturing his supporters? Inconceivable.


Republicans fear their base, Democrats hate their base.

Originally Posted By: Lilo

Most, not all but most of the things in this proposed deal are things that the right wanted, not the left.


There is difference between now and the 3rd of next month when Democrats don't just lose the House, they lose a shitload of Senate seats. Obama had a weak hand (especially with his party pressured to repeal DADT before the NeoCons can derail that reform for several years) and an even weaker hand in a few weeks.

Originally Posted By: Lilo


And the deal does nothing for the 99ers or any future 99ers. It cuts the payroll tax which funds Social Security and will make it more difficult to protect it from those on the Right who want to "save" it. Is it possible that many on the left are whiny delusional dummies? Well yes. whistle


"Nobody votes on the deficit." - Karl Rove

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #587612
12/09/10 06:43 AM
12/09/10 06:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO


Sorry but I must say it but: Knee-jerk.

Look at this politically: For the last two years, FNC/GOP have painted Obama as the socialist terrorist devil, the reincarnation of Hitler and Stalin mixed with chocolate. He must be stopped!

And they made a deal with him. Imagine McConnell having to go on Sean Hannity and sell to that partisan insane base on why this deal is worth passing.


Hannity is happy about this. McConnell and his crew drew a line in the sand and said they would not discuss or do ANYTHING until they got what they wanted on tax policy. There was nothing more important to them than continuing the "Bush Tax Cuts" (and really if this is signed into law we should drop that name -it will be the Obama tax cuts.) The Republicans and some other people don't see this so much as a deal as they do a dictation of terms. True or not, that is how the Republicans will sell it to their base-not that there's a whole lot they need to sell.

Originally Posted By: ronnierocketAGO


Remember this was the same shit which happened under Clinton, but of course that is the difference, isn't it Lilo? Liberals were just happy that a national Democratic candidate won for once when Bubba won. With Obama, they (or thought at least) smelled a change, a political wash-over as politically impactful (and as mythically fictional) as the Reagan Revolution.

But none the less, Obama has the same opportunity as Bubba to triangulate against the GOP. Doesn't mean he necessarily will, but look at how right wing, even moreso than Dubya's Presidency in some fronts he is on Foreign Policy. A very cynical opinion, but I wonder if a reason behind the Afghanistan escalation was to blunt any GOP/NeoCon criticism of him going soft on the War on Terror. Notice how Obama abandoned the public trials for terrorists.

Or to put it another: Obama effectively made the GOP agree to a Second Stimulus. If this passes, what will the GOP argue in '12?


1) That's kind of my point RR,. Liberals/progressives/etc "The LEFT" swallowed hard and accepted plenty of things they would have been up in arms about if Bush did them.
Increased war/claims of increased executive power/civil liberties/DADT/Comprehensive immigration reform/bank bailouts/ etc. Not saying where I stand on those listed-just an example.

They did this in large part because they thought there would be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. But now someone is telling them shut up eat your broccoli and don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain, I know what's best. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The tax cuts were a core issue. Like the Rosato Brothers, the base feels cheated.

2) To the extent that this is a second Stimulus it is one on Republican terms-tax cuts. It's rare that you will find any Republican opposing that. The Republicans who are making noises about not liking this (DeMint, Bachmann) are zooming in on to the extended unemployment benefits and saying they must be paid for or eliminated. If this passes and works Republicans will say, with some justification that their insistence on tax cuts for people earning millions is what saved the economy. If it doesn't work then it's all Obama's fault for not extending the cuts further.

But again I think the takeaway is that when it gets really serious, standing up and saying NO to the President can work. And I think in the future years to come the President will regret sending that message. Not now, but ah a year or two from now.. whistle



"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Lilo] #587632
12/09/10 12:43 PM
12/09/10 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
House says "Not so fast"....

House democrats defy Obama


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Lilo] #587739
12/10/10 11:53 AM
12/10/10 11:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
Frank_Nitti Offline
"The Enforcer"
Frank_Nitti  Offline
"The Enforcer"
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
These Obama tax cuts are supply side economics at its best. The middle class got about 500 million in cuts while the wealthy got 120 billion...so its the middle who lost out on major cuts, based on the logic that the upper end creates jobs, thus they deserve the cuts.....but of course, they cant create jobs if there's no customers for them. ;/


Im hoping for growth, growth, growth and more spending cuts in the new section of congress, instead of all that big govt spending we saw 2 years ago in the panic of '08 when we gave 3.3 trillion to places such as Citi, Jp Morgan, Goldman, GE, bank of England, etc..

Last edited by Frank_Nitti; 12/10/10 11:58 AM.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Lilo] #587749
12/10/10 01:54 PM
12/10/10 01:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Although a vote is not scheduled until Monday, Senator Sanders has started what seems to be a filibuster-the old style filibuster. He's had the floor or as he would say it "the floah" since 10:20 or so. Go Bernie!


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Lilo] #587765
12/10/10 03:16 PM
12/10/10 03:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
Frank_Nitti Offline
"The Enforcer"
Frank_Nitti  Offline
"The Enforcer"
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
Yes, that was a nice temper tantrum this morning, though there are more pressing issues of course.

Wikileaks revealed a few weeks ago that the Chinese hackers who broke into the U.S. financial computers were teenagers. Perhaps the culprit was simply a 13 yr old Asian kid who's bored with video games, but I doubt it. It's an aggressive act on the Chinese government's part and we've done nothing about it. Years ago, these guys would have been punished, but we're simply powerless over China and N. Korea right now.

Even though we're not a commodities based economy any longer, we're still very strong there, obviously, and I'm in the camp who thinks the US should be more like Ireland and stand by its strong commodities market and say f*u to China and the E.U.

And everyone is waiting tonight to see whether or not China will raise its interest rates which will set the pace for the rest of the global fiscal year. Some people in this economy benefit from devalued chinese currency, some benefit from over valued. Chinese interest rates and currency valuation is an important factor for the many companies in this nation who do business with China.

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #587770
12/10/10 04:09 PM
12/10/10 04:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Sanders is coming up on five hours and still going strong. I wonder how long this can go on??


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Lilo] #587776
12/10/10 04:57 PM
12/10/10 04:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
Frank_Nitti Offline
"The Enforcer"
Frank_Nitti  Offline
"The Enforcer"
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 592
Chicago Underworld
Yeah, Senator Sanders is a self-avowed Socialist who's obviously opposed to the tax cuts. His camp says he'll continue the filibuster as long as he physically can, tho he's no spring chicken. lol

He has to remanin standing at his desk, no bathroom or food break, and has to keep talking for virtually the entire length of his filibuster, of course.

Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: Frank_Nitti] #587777
12/10/10 05:06 PM
12/10/10 05:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Sanders is only 69 years old?

I thought he was 100. Really.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: What the F*ck is Going On With the Economy? [Re: pizzaboy] #587778
12/10/10 05:10 PM
12/10/10 05:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
The Italian Stallionette Offline
The Italian Stallionette  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Sanders is only 69 years old?

I thought he was 100. Really.


Really????? eek I thought he was way older too. eek



TIS


"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK

"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon

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