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Was Moe bluffing?
#563347
12/27/09 11:06 PM
12/27/09 11:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520 AZ
Turnbull
OP
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OP
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520
AZ
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When Vito returned home from the hospital, Sonny told him he’d arranged for Fredo to “learn the hotel business” in Vegas. We weren’t told that the Corleones had invested in Moe Green’s hotel. But they did: when Michael met with Fredo in Vegas, he said, “Now Moe Greene will sell us his share of the casino and the hotel so it could be completely owned by the Family.” And he pointedly reminded Moe that the Corleones had “bankrolled” his hotel. So, when Fredo told Moe to expect a visit from his brother, Moe had to know that Michael was on a mission to buy him out. His response—“I tolk to Barzini. I can make a deal with him and still keep my hotel”—was a threat to Michael. If true, it would mean that Barzini would provide whatever money Moe needed to keep his money-losing hotel afloat, presumably in return for some part of Moe’s share, and with Moe still in charge. That would put Barzini eyeball-to-eyeball with Michael, in the same property, in newly wide-open Vegas—a new battleground. In the previous scene, Tessio complained that “Barzini's people chisel my territory, and we do nothing about it. Pretty soon there won't be one place in Brooklyn I can hang my hat!” Barzini “chiseling” by opening betting parlors or loan shark operations in Tessio’s territory was one thing. But, Barzini supporting Moe against Michael by buying into Moe’s hotel and enabling Moe to stay in charge was quite another, vastly more provocative, thing, especially since Vito was still alive.
My question: Do you think Barzini actually told Moe he would invest in his hotel and stand against Michael’s move to buy him out and move him out? Or do you think Moe, “headstrong, talking loud, saying stupid things” (Roth in II), was shooting his mouth off and bluffing Michael?
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Was Moe bluffing?
[Re: Turnbull]
#563348
12/27/09 11:23 PM
12/27/09 11:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466 Stewartstown, PA
VitoC
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
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My question: Do you think Barzini actually told Moe he would invest in his hotel and stand against Michael’s move to buy him out and move him out? Or do you think Moe, “headstrong, talking loud, saying stupid things” (Roth in II), was shooting his mouth off and bluffing Michael? No, I don't think Moe was bluffing. I think he really did make a deal with Barzini. In the scene with Michael, Moe makes clear that he's very contemptuous of the Corleones in general: "The Corleone family don't even have that kinda muscle anymore..." and Michael specifically: "I made my bones when you were going out with cheerleaders!" Moe could see that a showdown was developing between Michael and the other New York families, Barzini in particular. Barzini was making it clear to Michael that there wasn't room for both of them in New York anymore. Something had to give. Moe could see this. Like Tessio, Moe believed the showdown would end with Michael's defeat and death. This was why he allied with Barzini. Wrong choice. But that's the risk you take in this business. Moe's and Barzini's opinion of Michael was similar to how Khrushchev viewed Kennedy before the Cuban Missile Crisis--they saw him as a lightweight. Like Kennedy, Michael proved himself equal to the challenge before him.
Last edited by VitoC; 12/27/09 11:33 PM.
Let me tell ya somethin my kraut mick friend!
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Re: Was Moe bluffing?
[Re: VitoC]
#563369
12/28/09 07:05 AM
12/28/09 07:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718 Berlin, Germany
Danito
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
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"I talked to Barzini", was a stupid remark of Moe ("talking loud, saying stupid things”). On one hand he tries to show what a tough guy he is ("made my bones".) On the other hand he looks like a young boy who's "gonna tell my brother".
So, what would Moe be bluffing about? If he wanted Michael to believe that Moe was under Barzini's protection and thi was not the case, Moe would only gain some time, because it was clear that soon Michael or Tom would be able to verify/falsify that statement.
I think, Moe really lost his nerves. He felt his status being attacked by a young man. Same mistake as Woltz. But Moe had no horse to sacrify. Woltz was still useful as a film producer. Moe was skimming off the top. And he was foolish enough to admit it.
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Re: Was Moe bluffing?
[Re: Lilo]
#563387
12/28/09 10:01 AM
12/28/09 10:01 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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I don't think Moe was bluffing. I think that Barzini and Moe had come to an understanding. As others mentioned Moe would have been incensed that a punk kid (Michael) was coming to Moe's area of expertise and making demands and accusations. I agree. Moe Green made a stupid mistake. He underestimated the Corleones, figuring that they weren't as strong as they had been some years earlier, and he figured that they were being pushed out of New York. His remark to Michael was made out of some false sense of security (having Barzini backing him).
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Re: Was Moe bluffing?
[Re: Turnbull]
#563390
12/28/09 10:42 AM
12/28/09 10:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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My question: Do you think Barzini actually told Moe he would invest in his hotel and stand against Michael’s move to buy him out and move him out? Or do you think Moe, “headstrong, talking loud, saying stupid things” (Roth in II), was shooting his mouth off and bluffing Michael? I believe Moe did tok to Barzini, and I have no doubt that Barzini promised him he could make a deal and allow Moe to still keep his hotel. The "talking loud and sayin stupid things" aspect of Moe exemplified here was his telling this to Michael in thr first place. I think the more significant question is whether or not Brzini intended to keep his word once he bankrolled Moe. I think he would have moved in on his hotel as well.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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