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Michael's choices #561802
12/06/09 11:44 PM
12/06/09 11:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
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AZ
VitoC started an intelligent, provocative thread on "judging Michael" that elicited many thoughtful responses. smile I'm posting a response here that asserts that Michael had alternative choices all along. Your thoughts?

Some on these boards believe Michael is a tragic figure. Yes, there’s a ton of tragedy in his life—all self-inflicted. He had free choice at every turn, and he freely chose the Mob life, with disastrous results. Here are four major examples that I’d like your opinions on:

First: He was right to think Sollozzo would try to kill his father after the failed hospital attempt. He was wrong to believe that only he could save his father, and by killing Sollozzo and McCluskey. Ironically, an idea that Michael himself had suggested could have been modified to solve the problem bloodlessly. The Corleones could have fed the newspapermen on their payroll the story about McCluskey being a dishonest cop mixed up in drugs and murder before, not after, the trigger was pulled. McCluskey was on the take all his life, and the Corleones had all the details because they paid him. The newspapers would have given that story such headlines that the Police Commissioner would have been shamed into providing Vito with an army to protect him, to save further embarrassment. McCluskey and Sollozzo would have been neutralized without any bloodshed. At minimum, McCluskey would have been transferred or suspended pending investigation. With pressure from the Corleone judges, he’d have been indicted for taking bribes. Sollozzo would have been arrested and probably deported as an undesirable alien. With McCluskey alive, the cops would have had no reason to crack down on all Mob activities. There would have been no Five Families War of 1946, leaving it a contest between the Corleones and the Tattaglias—and as we know, Tattaglia was a pimp, alone he could never have outfought Santino. Michael could have married Kay and gone back to college (and we would have had no Godfather Trilogy!).

Instead, Michael chose to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey, setting in motion his abandonment of Kay, his Sicilian exile, the Five Families War, Carlo’s betrayal, Sonny’s murder, Apollonia’s murder. Sonny and Tom were complicit in Michael’s decision. But, if he didn’t volunteer to do the killings, some other scenario might have been possible.

Second: He could have resumed the legitimate life after returning from Sicily. He could have said to Vito: “Pop, I was wrong to distance myself from you. But I atoned: I saved your life. And I paid a heavy price: two murders, abandoned my beloved fiancée, lost months out of my life in Sicily, lost my beloved bride to a bomb intended for me. We’re quits. Now you run the family…Oh, not feeling well enough to take the reins? Fredo not equal to the task? Sorry, Pop, that’s not my problem. Besides, you always said you didn’t want this for me—you wanted me to be a pezzanovante. Well, I can’t be Senator Corleone or Governor Corleone if I’m Don Corleone. Bye-bye.”

Instead, Michael chooses to become the Don, setting in motion Tessio’s betrayal, the Great Massacre of 1955, Connie’s widowhood and breakdown, and the beginning of Kay’s disillusionment with him.

Third: After moving to Tahoe, Michael could have retired behind the walls of his compound and invested his wealth legitimately—even putting money up-front in the legal casinos of Nevada.

Instead, he chose to hide his ownership or controlling interest in three hotels; muscle Klingman out of his interest in a fourth hotel; dominate the New York mob scene through Frankie Pentangeli; undercut Pentangeli through his support of the Rosato Brothers and their drug-dealing; stake Fredo to ownership of a brothel, and plan for a huge international expansion of his gambling empire through his deal with Roth. Results: Fredo’s betrayal; the machinegun attack that nearly killed Kay in her bed and scared the bejesus out of his kids; Kay’s estrangement, abortion and divorce; Anthony’s estrangement; Fredo’s murder (and a host of other killings).

Fourth: he was “legitimate” in GFIII—but was he? He whines, “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.” But he was never out. He was still a member of the Commission and influential enough to keep Zasa from rising (so Vincent tells us). He laundered his Mob cronies’ money through his “legitimate” businesses (maybe through his foundations) and cut Zasa out of his share.

Result: the machinegun attack in Atlantic City that killed all his pals and precipitated his diabetic stroke. It wasn’t enough that he became a Papal Knight: he had to dominate International Immobiliare by bribing crooked-as-a-corkscrew Archbishop Gilday, setting in motion Altobello’s betrayal and putting him against Don Lucchese, who was far more powerful in Europe. And, in an act of supreme irresponsibility and egotism: told that Sicily’s top assassin—“a man who never fails”—has targeted him, Michael gathers his entire family around him in Sicily, making them all sitting ducks. Surprise, surprise: his beloved Mary gets killed and his budding reconciliation with Kay is nipped in the bud, leading to his own, lonely death, attended by a little dog.

Michael succeeded--in turning everything he touched into death, including his own.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's choices [Re: Turnbull] #561810
12/07/09 07:31 AM
12/07/09 07:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
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MI
Yes, he had choices at every point and made the wrong choice. I don't know if Puzo and FFC deliberately framed it that way but it certainly appeared to be the case. It reminds me of a similar theme in Tolkien's work-that evil blinds those seduced by it.

Michael makes the wrong choice from the beginning and then sees other choices become worse and worse although he's making "rational" decisions all along.

I don't know if the other Families would have easily let him get out of the life once he murdered Sollozzo and McCluskey. Certainly the attempt on his life in Sicily showed that Barzini was keeping an eye on him. Once the ceasefire was attained, Michael could certainly have declined to become boss in waiting. It would have upset his father but that wouldn't have been the first time.

However it would have been accomplished an army of hoodlums, police and private detectives at the hospital protecting Vito until he was well enough to be moved home COULD have worked without Michael having to murder.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Michael's choices [Re: Lilo] #561860
12/07/09 04:09 PM
12/07/09 04:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
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Texas
I agree Lilo. The private detectives hired to protect Vito at the hospital were certainly adequate to do the job. I've never bought into Michael's invective: "He's gonna kill pop. That's a key for him."

Another invective of his that I don't buy: "Then you [Kay]were in danger. What could I do?" That line in GFIII is inane. Kay was never in danger. As for your's and TB's major point, Michael could have laid down his sword at any point. Michael chose not to. Perhaps he enjoyed the power, the manipulation, or feared the anonymity of being an former Don. Who knows.

Last edited by olivant; 12/07/09 04:10 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's choices [Re: olivant] #561870
12/07/09 05:14 PM
12/07/09 05:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Compelling case TB, but as Al Pacino might say, let me play "Devil's Advocate" here.

1. Solozzo shooting - Michael saw first hand that there was going to be another assassination attempt at the hospital, and
he brilliantly inmprovised the moving of the bed to another room, and stationing Enzo outside. During this he calls Sonny who obviously tells him "don't panic," which clearly offends him. I think Michael realized that Sonny wasn't up to the job, and that he had to become more involved. His moving "I'm with you now Pop" scene is followed by him and Enzo pretending to be armed guards, for which he gets belted in the mouth by Mac after he goes wise on him asking "how much is the Turk paying you to set up my father (BTW Hagen and his court order got from the all on Long Island to Manhattan almost as
quickly as that orange juice appeared in GFIII) ?" The following day he is in a key meeting with Tom the two capo regimes and Sonny. He witnesses Sonny's ineptitude again as
he is bragging about having a hundred button men on the street, after killing Tatt's son as a payback for the hospital (an overreaction IMHO) and he then witnesses Tom talking Sonny into negotiating with Sollozzo. Since he was delegated to be the one to go to the meeting and since he recognized Sollozzo was going to "kill Pop," he understood Sol had to be eliminated. Yes, it is true they could have gone to the papers and it is also true that with the political connections intact they could have ruined Mac and had Sol deported, but that wouldn't have solved anything. The war was already going on. If Michael went to the restaurant and told Sol "As you know I am not really involved in this, so I'll run your proposal by the business end of the family and I'll get back to you," what would Barzini have done once he saw the story in the papers about Sol and Mac? Not too long IMHO and they'd be back to square one. So killing Sol was his best shot so to speak, at saving his father.

2. Choosing to be Don. After killing Sol and living in Sicily under the tuteledge of Don Tomassino for a long time, and after watching his bride die, and learning of the death of Santino, he had no one to turn to except Vito. It was too late for him to become Senator Corleone, or Governor Corleone because regardless of the way Vito kept him from a murder rap, rumors would circulate about the shooting and the missing year or so in Sicily. In other words he had already crossed the Rubicon and he was now headed to the only real destiny he ever had.

3. Not Going Legit-A. Yes he continued to run things through Pentangeli, and he was willing to compromise with the sleazy tactics of the Rosatos in order to get hold of Roth's action in Cuba (more or less legitimate....no worse than the teamsters) and make a move in Vegas on Klingman. This is more financial white collar crime than being a street thug, and it moves him in a direction toward legitimacy.

4. Not Going Legit-B. To get to make the Immobiliare deal he did have to make a significant deposit with the Vatican bank, but there is nothing illegal about it. In addition he had created foundations for Sicily, and had the hospital named for Vito....all legitimate. He also "sold all the casinos," and it was his intention to retire from the commission the night he paid back all the investors in Atlantic City. He told them
"Our business is done." This after learning he had been nearly stabbed in the back on the premise that the "Pope is very ill). He had no idea there was going to be a hit, and he told the commission members who wanted in Immobiliare they could not be. He thought he was getting out but he was being dragged back in. Moreover, now he understood that the so-called "legitimate world," i.e. the Church and the largest real estate conglomorate on earth were as crooked as the mob.

5. Sitting ducks at the Opera. Having relinquished control to Vincent, he did put himself and his family in danger by the way
he attended the Opera. What can I say? Don Michael was slippin'.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael's choices [Re: olivant] #561875
12/07/09 05:57 PM
12/07/09 05:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: olivant

Another invective of his that I don't buy: "Then you [Kay]were in danger. What could I do?" That line in GFIII is inane. Kay was never in danger.



I agree a million percent!!

Of all Michael's rationalizations, this one takes the cake. The Mafia (here in America) would never have gone after his wife or children. It's a tremendous (deliberate?) irony that Mary was ultimately killed my Michael's enemies (by accident).

Good post, Oli.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Michael's choices [Re: pizzaboy] #561878
12/07/09 06:19 PM
12/07/09 06:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
V
VitoC Offline
Capo
VitoC  Offline
V
Capo
Joined: Nov 2009
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Stewartstown, PA
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Of all Michael's rationalizations, this one takes the cake. The Mafia (here in America) would never have gone after his wife or children. It's a tremendous (deliberate?) irony that Mary was ultimately killed my Michael's enemies (by accident).
Good post, Oli.


They might not have gone after them "deliberately," but Roth and the assassins had no qualms about trying to kill Michael in a way (firing into his home) that could easily have killed Kay and the children. As it was, Kay (along with Michael) was almost killed. This incident clearly indicated that whoever was after Michael would stop at nothing to get him, and if his family went down with him, so be it. So I don't think Michael was merely "rationalizing" when he told Kay in Part III that she and the kids had been in danger.


Let me tell ya somethin my kraut mick friend!
Re: Michael's choices [Re: VitoC] #561897
12/07/09 09:29 PM
12/07/09 09:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520
AZ
The best repartee in that vein was at the party in III. Michaal says, "I protected my family from the horrors of this world." And Kay, newly assertive, replies, "But you became my horror." You go, girl!! clap


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's choices [Re: Turnbull] #562030
12/09/09 02:16 PM
12/09/09 02:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,020
Texas
I agree TB that that the exchange you referenced above is one of the best, most incisive exchanges in the Trilogy. But you know TB, in previous threads over the years we've gone over this topic of Michael's culpability several times. It comes down to this: Michael chose to lead the life he led. He eschewed other life choice options, but was a gold medal winner when it came to rationalizations (to quote someone, "Maybe you weren't hugged enough when you were a kid"). He had many opportunities to just walk away from it all and maybe most telling, he always considered murder as a problem-solver. Now, that's pretty black and white.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's choices [Re: Turnbull] #562035
12/09/09 03:28 PM
12/09/09 03:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
Sicilian Babe  Offline

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
The best repartee in that vein was at the party in III. Michaal says, "I protected my family from the horrors of this world." And Kay, newly assertive, replies, "But you became my horror." You go, girl!! clap


That's actually one of my favorite scenes. I love how Kay rips away all of Michael's "but I HAD to do it" excuses and refers to him as a common hood. Beautiful acting by both of them.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Michael's choices [Re: Sicilian Babe] #562036
12/09/09 03:32 PM
12/09/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
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Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
The best repartee in that vein was at the party in III. Michaal says, "I protected my family from the horrors of this world." And Kay, newly assertive, replies, "But you became my horror." You go, girl!! clap


That's actually one of my favorite scenes. I love how Kay rips away all of Michael's "but I HAD to do it" excuses and refers to him as a common hood. Beautiful acting by both of them.


There was a lot of real feeling there. Both Pacino and Keaton have acknowledged that at that point they were breaking up in real life. They'd been on-again, off-again for 18 years at that point.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Michael's choices [Re: olivant] #562090
12/10/09 03:20 PM
12/10/09 03:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520
AZ
Turnbull Offline OP
Turnbull  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,520
AZ
Originally Posted By: olivant
It comes down to this: Michael chose to lead the life he led.

Well, that's the short, to-the-point summary of what I took a long time saying at the top of this thread. smile


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's choices [Re: Turnbull] #562100
12/10/09 08:27 PM
12/10/09 08:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
V
VitoC Offline
Capo
VitoC  Offline
V
Capo
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
I think in assessing Michael's life course, you also have to consider that while he always loved Vito, he grew emotionally much closer to him over the course of Part I--as we can see in the hospital scene where he says "I'm with ya now." Given the extremely traumatic events that take place over the course of the movie, it could hardly have been otherwise. As I said before, I think the best time for him to get out would have been when he returned from Sicily. But I think that, at least to some extent, his closer relationship with Vito played a huge role in his willingness to assume the family leadership when Vito became sick--particularly given the fact that Vito had no obvious successor. He wanted his father to have the peace of mind of knowing that the family was in secure and trustworthy hands. Furthermore, I think he realized that even if he refused to have any part in the family business, there would still be a Corleone crime family for the foreseeable future. While he certainly could have walked away from it, it's not as if he would have ended the criminal activities by doing so. I think that these factors, coupled with his desire for eventual "legitimacy," were what let him not to quit when it would have been easiest to do so.


Let me tell ya somethin my kraut mick friend!
Re: Michael's choices [Re: VitoC] #562104
12/10/09 08:50 PM
12/10/09 08:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
Underboss
Danito  Offline
Underboss
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Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
I think, what makes the tragedy so compelling, is that most of Michael's steps are understandable to some degree in themselves.
The first thing is, he's acting out of love for his father. He's so filled with it, that he even leaves his beloved Kay alone. He's the only male in the family who cares/dares visiting Vito.
He realizes that he's able to protect his father and that his fearlessness makes him different.
In the two discussions between Sonny, Tom, Tessio and Clemenza, he realizes that his brothers are acting irrationally. And he's shocked by the fact that Clemenza and Tessio "want to kill all those men."
So he takes control of the situation. What he doesnt't realize is that he's making it even worse, especially for himself, which is why I consider him a tragic hero like in the classic Greek stories.

Re: Michael's choices [Re: Danito] #562105
12/10/09 09:23 PM
12/10/09 09:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
V
VitoC Offline
Capo
VitoC  Offline
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Capo
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Stewartstown, PA
To be honest, I'm not entirely convinced Michael would have had a happier life had he ended up in the "legitimate" world. There are plenty of law abiding people who end up with more regrets than he did. I think his tragedy was not simply a matter of going into crime, it was caused by other decisions he made as well. He didn't have to marry Kay, for instance. He should have realized she wouldn't be a good match for him if he was going to stay in the Mafia. It's interesting that Henry Hill found a wife who, while also not born into the wiseguy world, was much more compatible with it than Kay was (Henry and Karen were together for 24 years, impressive by any standard). Michael also didn't have to refuse to let Kay have the children when they divorced. Couples get divorced all the time, but it's not always with the bitterness that existed when Michael and Kay split up.


Let me tell ya somethin my kraut mick friend!
Re: Michael's choices [Re: VitoC] #562469
12/16/09 03:04 PM
12/16/09 03:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
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Jaren Offline
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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Posts: 13
I would have to put myself in Michael's shoes if i was in his tragic situation...I would do anything to protect my family, espcially my father if no one else can. Also when Michael was in italy thats where he discovered when Sonny dies and also his new wife was blown up!.. So life pretty much sucks after that. Who wouldn't be depressed after that? So he blocked out all his emotions and became a ruthless business man because everyone he interacts with reminds him of his enimies and actaully become his enimies! Who could blame him?

Michael made all the right choices because he had to and it was his fate!

Re: Michael's choices [Re: Turnbull] #568168
02/28/10 01:23 AM
02/28/10 01:23 AM
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Posts: 3,065
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JCrusher Offline
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 3,065
I agree with you 100% A lot of people feel sympathy for Michael but the truth is that Mike made all of his decisions. He became a cold blooded monster who would kill his own family in order to keep his status as a wealthy powerful don not senator. If he really wanted to be a senator he could have been. I think he always wanted to be a gangster even if he said he didn't deep down he was ruthless enoght to do it


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