I'm going to list what I think could have been some of the possible outcomes for The Sopranos ending.

1. Tony Soprano gets shot, but not his family.
2. Tony Soprano along with his family gets shot.
3. Tony Soprano's family gets shot, but not him.
4. Meadow walks into the bullet taking the hit instead of Tony.
5. Hitman attempts to shoot Tony, but misses, and Tony pulls out a gun and shoots the Hitman.
6. Someone in Tony's crew, Paulie for example, was aware of the hit and got to the restaurant just in time to prevent the shooting.
7. Nothing happens. No one gets shot.

If it were up to me, I would've chosen #5 for the outcome. Actually that's how I would've started off a Sopranos movie.

May I throw out another possibility? The audience was whacked. Since the show was based mainly on the relationship between mob boss and therapist and that relationship was now over for good, we no longer get to see the rest of the characters' interactions. The blackout was the viewer being whacked.
In short, many, many things could have unfolded.

So I'm reading a post made by some dead guy??

I've heard of a ghost writer but this is crazy.

Interesting possibility Sopranoleone, I like that idea. It very well could be possible that the blackout meant that the audience got whacked.

Meteorite.

Carmella wakes and finds Furio showering in her bathroom and realizes the last 4 seasons were all a dream because Furio actually did throw Tony into the helicopter blade in Atlantic city.

I agree, it was all a dream. But Tony wakes up and finds Finn in the shower. They stop at Ralphie's to pick up Janice's vibrator, then they run off to elope in Vermont. Christopher is a bridesmaid, Paulie is his Maid of Honor. Surprisingly, the only straight one is Vito.

Who can resist the reasoning of Don Cardi!

Tony chokes to death on an onion ring.

After he trips over Adriana's body.

Okay guys lets be serious.

Okay.


The most likely, along with #7. Though I'd have to say I'm against it, for reasons I've said here.

Very unlikely. Where in the series do you see any family intentionally getting shot? The closest I can think of is the Ukranian Phil Leotardo look-alike's mistress.

Even more unlikely than #2.

GDFATHER PART III LOLZ!

Like Junior's attempted hit on Tony at the end of Season One? Nah, I don't buy it.

Nah, on two levels: why would anyone be aware of it, and why wouldn't Paulie simply ring Tony?

As likely as #1. Reasons #2 to #6 have little weight. The blackout comes down to #1 and #7 - if it's even a question at all.

No. When he sees Ade walk in.

Actually I believe #5 would be most likely and that would be the case if they are making a Sopranos movie.

Only thing that bothers me is that we actually are not being shown the obvious, because if we watched all seasons closely it has always lead up to his death. As in we should know without being told. The convo about when a hit takes place, things go black. The fact that the hitman has a members only jacket??? The kind of people who are members only are the same that "Join the Club". And whats Tony going through during that episode??? Christophers 3 0' clock dream. Look where the bathrooms roughly situated in regards to where Tonys sitting.
Number one is most likely. Paulie coming in to save him. Throughout all the entire final episodes.. paulie becomes much more aggitated. After Tony taking him for that boat ride it wouldn't be totally stupid to think Paulies the one who has him wacked.

If you watched the same "Sopranos" seasons as I did, you should know that David Chase NEVER went out of the way to tie up loose ends (the Russian in the pine barrens, the guy who raped Melfi, etc.) and the "obvious" (as you put it) was never quite that.

No matter how agitated Paulie got at Tony, Paulie would always stay loyal.

Maybe not. He came awfully close to switching to the New York Family headed by Carmine Lupertazzi and he would have done so if Johnny Sac had truthfully told Carmine about Paulie's unhappiness with Tony Soprano.

Switching families does not necessarily mean that Paulie is not loyal, he gets upset with Tony's decisions sometimes, but he still listens to Tony.

It depends WHY one would switch Families. Paulie would have done so because he, at that point, didn't like Tony. That doesn't sound like loyalty to me.

Switching families is the very definition of not being loyal.

It's not that Paulie didn't like Tony, Paulie was upset with the way Tony was running things, but Paulie still listened to Tony and continued to obey every order given by Tony, that's loyalty, even if Paulie considered switching families the fact that he continued to obey Tony shows that Paulie is still very loyal. By the way, this is off topic but I would've loved to see Paulie as the boss.

Paulie's very transient. His mood - loyalty included - is dependent on his weekly income.

Inaccurate. Watch season four again.

But what factors decided his "return"? His defection across the Hudson fell flat. "Loyalty" doesn't really come into it with these guys. It's not an honourable, noble attribute; it's determined by capital gain.

The mob life in a nutshell. One of the most concise points ever on the subject of "loyalty" within the mob.

Of course Capo still had to take a shot at capitalism .

Capo, I have the entire complete Sopranos series box set, and Paulie telling Johnny Sacramoni about that joke made by Ralph Cifaretto and then denying it to Tony was not disloyalty, you could say that lying is a disloyal thing to do when speaking to the Boss, but in that situation Paulie did the best thing, Paulie did that to prevent himself from getting whacked, now if it any other situation where he lied to Tony about something else, than that would be bad, but in this situation it would be an exception, or if it were a case where the FBI approached Paulie and ended up ratting to save his own life, than that would be disloyal even though Paulie would never do that. Besides that incident, any other time Paulie always remains loyal to Tony. Capo and Pizzaboy, how many times to I have to get this through everyone's head, the Mafia was loyal for hundreds of years, then certain people within it started to get greedy and ended up ratting, but disloyalty did not appear much within the Mafia until the 1970's. Everyone on this forum is acting like the Mafia had no loyalty and respect when in fact it did for a very long time.

But The Sopranos isn't set before the 1970's so there would be Disloyalty in the Mafia then.

Yeah, but the series is set in the 21st century.

As far as the hundreds of years, how do you know? And please, don't tell me "because my family told me so." You were challenged in the real life threads by both Don Cardi and Turnbull, who are both your intellectual superiors, and all you could come up with was, "because my family told me so."

You make post after post without stating source material, then you get mad when you're continually challenged.

OK, let bygones be bygones and let's move on.

My own 2¢ on this subject of "loyalty" - there's been a small element of disloyal wiseguys before the 1970s but we don't hear too much about them mainly because they had a tendency to disappear ( ). One notable case before the '70s was Joe Valachi.

Pizzaboy, with the amount of immaturity presented by many of the users on this board Don Cardi and Turnbull are far from being my intellectual superiors, when we're talking about the Mafia, I know for a fact I am much more intellectual superior than most if not all of the people on hear, from what I've noticed most people on hear think they know it all when they are completely wrong, I know the Mafia inside and out but I am forbidden to explain how I know, I have the facts and I know the facts but I am forbidden to show or explain the facts, I can tell you the facts but you are just gonna have to take my word for it, at least I know that I know the truth. No one on hear is able to provide source material, probably because it's either inaccurate or source material can not be found, so you have no right to tell me that I need to provide source material when no one on hear is able to do so even though I am able to do so, but like I said I am forbidden to do so. If you want to find out the truth from the source, join the Mafia and see for yourself.

I tried, Geoff.

I really tried.

What is that supposed to mean?

It means respect the SC for the moderator that he is!

Punk.

All of the people on hear?

I think you meant here, Professor.

Pizzaboy I think you are the one who needs to learn a thing or two about respect.

IMB, stop with the bullshit already. This is not a role playing site! Perhaps you'd be happier if you found one somewhere else.

Who said anything about role playing? I'm not the one who told someone to f**k off on the other topic.

Enjoy your week-long vacation, IMB. If this shit starts up again, it'll be permanent.

All I can say is Wow!!!! And he lasted a whole day?




TIS

You come across as if im stupid. I forgive, we have passion for the same thing. I have watched the same thing...though I also note the not so obvious, apparently!! Terence winter wrote that episode therefore he decided the outcome. David Chase not furthuring that plot just means david wrote a show called "The Sopranos" and not "What happened to the guy in the woods". He had no story arc for that particular character. So if we are not going to see him again, what better way than leave us wondering!! These things you speak are to add tension and make an experience for the audience through supporting characters who have no definitive story. Do you not think Tonys character is a little more important than the two you brought up?

I know what you mean. It's just like the time he told jonny sack about the joke made about his wifes weight. The trouble that could have caused Tony. He wanted to go to war over that alone. You see Tony and Jonnys relationship going downhill from there. And the kid that Tony said to his mother, whilst in hospital, would not come to no harm. Paulie goes down to the harbour and beats him up.... directly disobeying Tony!!! And when his asked about the joke by Tony on the boat, he lies.... In one scene he says " I go out of my way for that prick Jonny to make him think i like him". How many people do you think hes gonna go out of his way for? His mothers a religious whore. His lived his life being something hes not. So much for loyalty....

Again he beats up that bloke by the harbour whilst with his cannoo. Then tells him hell be dead if any of it gets back to Tony. Point is he doesn't always listen does he????? He's mob who has always been looked over. In the last episode he's offered the job by Tony that Ralph and Vito had before him... I guess he sometimes must have wondered why the wait seeing as hes closer to Tony over Ralph and Vito. Hang on..did Tony ever like Ralph? And he still got stepped up before Paulie. How would that make a person feel...be realistic. If id known you all my life, but you invited someone at work to your wedding over my place...how would i feel???? Add the human touches where the screen hasn't the time to dwell. If it were me id be gutted, jealous, angry!!!!

Just baffles me is all. If anyone listened to Tony and could do no more its Christopher. Even sacrificing Adrianna.(Who i belived wholeheartedly he loved) He dotes on Tony like no other character except his wife and children. Look at what happened to him. Don't focus too hard on loyalty. It's only as good as the money it makes....well in this programme anyway. I take it Paulies one of your favs...who could blame you. The acting in this tv programme has been amazing.

Thankyou for your post. I thought i was a real nutter thinking about these characters so much. Its refreshing to see others put so much thought into their answers too. I guess like in real life a person can make you laugh so much and you can really warm to someone, you don't see anything bad in them. I love Paulie too, and the sopranos wouldn't have been the same without his character. But thanks once again for realising, as I have, that he didn't work in burger king. What there doing, often evil. It's just a shame too often people forget what the route of that is.

So what your saying is Paulie lied for his own best interest,which is the very definition of loyalty. But often when mixed with reality being loyal means knowing when to put others first. The very fact that lying nearly gets Paulie killed on that boat makes me wonder. O.k. your bright. Tony does pull out because like you, he understands why his being lied to. Credit where credits due. Dis-loyalty has existed since humans had holes in their arse. You say these things like loyalty is chartered and recorded....bizarre. Don't you think the 1970's, hippies, drugs and the mob play any sort of role. The godfather (Marlon Brando) sees the darkness of the future. Greed, yes certainly, had alot to do with it. But was not a deciding factor to being a rat. Way back these gansters saw a couple of years in the can for extortion and what not. But once they started to push hard drugs, and see the capitol gain from it...there greed started to make them sloppy. If they were caught they were looking at the equivalent of life for say selling h. They ratted out on each other so they didnt have to do the time.

I do actually think he's loved the programme that much that he believes hes one of them and knows the ins and outs of mafia life. Like there going to give him the low down so he can broadcast it across the web. He talks as if he knows anything about loyalty. But once they find out the bullshit this italian mafia boss speaks they'l have him wacked for sure. Was he a made guy back in the 70's or something

Though this has all come about by a dickcheese posting gibberish, it's interesting to note that the one character in the series who seems to have a central dilemma regarding loyalty is Christopher, who mirrors himself on and measures himself by "Old School" notions of loyalty and nobleness. He sacrifices Adriana and "would go to Hell" for Tony, but in the end, he's fucked.

Chris might be the most tragic character on the show. All around him are the real Old School people, the kind of men to whom he aspires: Richie Aprile, Feech LaManna, Phil Leotardo, even Paulie... and as we know, they're all rats; not informers, necessarily, but they'll do anything for an extra buck. Their social order encourages it. Moltisanti's chasing a lie.

One of the central premises of the show, the starting point from which many other themes stem, is the decline of traditional values, be it in the form of the Mafia or American life as a whole. Tony laments that he came in and that "the best is already over". He's inherited a fucked up society, life, world. And he's got all the money in it, figuratively speaking: the decline in value of life, because money has become a meaningless abstraction; the money Tony has is a result of a multi-generational life in crime. But that very life is socially destructive... how essentially different is it to capitalist society in general?

Great points, Capo. I've always said that at the end of the day, there is no difference between a crooked lawyer, shady banker, untrustworthy politician and a mafioso scumbag. They will ALL do whatever they can to get the fast buck - no matter how low they have to go or who they have to cross to achieve it. Oh, I apologize, the big difference is that the lawyer, banker and poltician pillage us everyday people "legally". How about wiretapping, tailing and charging the "legal mafiosi" under the federal RICO act?!?
(*DISCLAIMER - I admit that not every banker, lawyer and politician are dishonest and do not make that blanket claim*)

Omar Little to Maury Levy, in The Wire: "I got the shotgun, you got the briefcase. S'all in the game though right?"

Sorry im not basic enough for you. Its called an education

Um, no.

Christophers not chasing a lie though is he, he's fully aware and its being expected of him from the start. He's being dragged into it by Tony. Whereas Tony doesn't want his own son anything to do with it. From season 1 Christopher mentions the d girl. (the one he meets in season 2) He wanted to write scripts from the start. If anyone had no problems regarding loyalty to Tony it was Christopher. He hung on his every word, even following after Tony when Juniour sets up the hit. And how jealous he gets when steve buscemi shows up. He loves Tony to bits. Its just hes own personal desires he lets go of. Makes him angry.
I guess it takes a dickcheese to know one.lol. If you could please tell me how you get the highlighted yellow box to appear, so that people know what post im replying to, it would help alot. I appologise as it does seem like gibberish.Its just that all my answers have appeared together, but are related to different topics.

So you're Italian Mafia Boss too?

Wow, I feel bad that you have nothing better to do with yourself.

Other than wanking over the thought of your dickcheese on my tongue, you mean?

Whip it out, cowboy.

I'd rather not.

These people who get on a computer to call you names. How can I taste the cheese from your dick when you obviously have a pussy. Cowards do that don't they? I say what I say to peoples face. Thats the difference.

Guys, let's save the anatomy lessons for the sandbox.

I appologise SC. It's just people don't have to be rude. It's only a debate about personal opinions. And we are all intitled each to his own.

True, but as too often shows up here, we are reminded that opinions are like assholes.... everyone has one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

Thats very insightful. Although Im not a prophet I think Tonys dead. I have never felt the need to call anyone a dickcheese that has a different opinion to my own. Reason is there is no definative proof to say im right.

I love this italian mafia boss guy and and his other account "gottamoveon" and its funny when sc says "take it to the sandbox" LOL but plz imb and whatever account u use keep me updated on future posts

Blackie is also the same person.

lol

What? They're not my accounts. I have only one account and that's this one, and there is no freakin way I would use the word dickcheese, I've never even heard of that word before until I saw that guy's posts, and there is no freakin way I would sign up as an Irish person, no way in hell.

LOL LOL LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITALIAN_MAFIA_BOSS YOU ARE ONE FUNNY ASS ITALIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you.

ur welcome u funny funny guy dude u gotta keep posting in that smart ass manner unlike most people i enjoy arguing with smart asses especially while buzzed its the highlight of my day

I don't consider myself a smart ass, I just consider myself as a highly educated and intelligent person.

and thats funny

Oh, glad you think so.

your welcome boyo

Yep.

The fact that Lorraince Braco has suggested she has had conversations about a Soprano movie (ala Sex in the City) means Tony lived.

Chase was making us think that the last guy to the bathroom was the hitman. I think that guy is actually the FBI there to arrest Tony.

There is no debate that Tony was about to be arrested very soon.

I agree. Whether he lived or died Tony was screwed. Even though some parts of the show were a fictionalized telling of the mob sooner or later the boss had to go to jail especially in this era. Carlo had flipped and since he was a capo he could really nail tony for murders and other activites. As much as I loved the Sopranos I was rooting for Tony to be arrested since he deserved it after the terrible things he did

yes he definitely did some terrible things, but one of my favorite parts about the show were how his indirect actions and orders kind of fucked over a lot of innocent people. Like when Vito Junior had to go to the shock camp because he was in too much debt from gambling. Or those crackheads getting stomped out (and shot) by those kids during the HUD scam. Or when Paulie strangled his mom's friend to take her money and kick it up to Tony to make good in Tony's eyes. Tony probably didn;t mean for any of those things to happen, but because of him they did. like chris said ironically in 'Chasing It' - "like a pebble in a lake...even the fish feel it"

I think many fans were gullible in a way. Thats why the show was good because they tried to trick people into humanizing Tony. Like when he kills ralph people thought tony did it because he killed that stripper but a few episodes before he was celebrating with ralphie since he was making him a ton of money with the horse, and the construction. Feech la Manna is another good example. Tony was jealous of the guy since he was well respected so he ratted him out to go back to prison. But to get back to the original point I think that Tony going to jail is the only logical conclusion. I mean the FBI of the last 20 years is very tough to beat with the technology and the informants. I know for the show they had to fictionalize it and make Tony seem untouchable