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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom?
[Re: Alive4Kill]
#542213
05/26/09 05:33 AM
05/26/09 05:33 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718 Berlin, Germany
Danito
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
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What I like in this scene it's the nervous tension inside everybody, especially Mike, Tom and Sonny. When I watch the film, I feel this tension too. It's one of those moments when our minds are racing: Fear of death (own death or a person you love), doubts about the decisions, getting distracted by second thoughts, physical needs and pain (Michael, for example wasn't able to eat anything), questioning the judgment of others. All this in the speed of light. Tessio looks tensed too when he explains the box-and-chain-thing. Clemenza looks like a rock in the scene, shoveling Chinese food in his mouth with his dirty hands. He's trying to calm the rest of the group down. ("The gun'll be there." "He's playing pinochle with my men.") But when they all made up their minds, he can't hold the tension either, jumping up: "Let's move." So my point is: Tom did have second thoughts, but also he was really worried about Michael. And that's how everybody else felt.
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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom?
[Re: Danito]
#542225
05/26/09 08:55 AM
05/26/09 08:55 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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The interesting thing to me in that scene is the role reversal of Sonny and Tom - Tom is very emotional and Sonny is, by his standards, calm.
Sonny gets the phone call, reports the info, and Tom screams "is it reliable." (As if there was any alternative info out there.) Sonny calmly explains how he knows and why it must be accurate.
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom?
[Re: Don Cardi]
#542268
05/26/09 12:03 PM
05/26/09 12:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,514
AZ
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Good question, DC, and I agree with all the views expressed. The combination of all those factors is what makes the scene so memorable. Another thing: While Sonny (earlier) had said that the Don "will have my head" if Michael got directly involved, Tom may have felt that the Don would hold him, not Sonny, personally responsible if anything bad happened to Michael. As we saw in the flashback scene at the end of II, Tom told Michael "your father and I have talked, many times, about your future." So Tom may have been thinking that the Don might have expected hothead Sonny to lose his cool and get Michael involved. But not Tom... And, as we saw later, when Vito comes home from the hospital and asks about Michael, it's Tom who tells him that Michael shot Mac and Sol. Vito then musters as much anger as he can at that point and waves Tom away.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom?
[Re: AppleOnYa]
#542554
05/28/09 07:11 PM
05/28/09 07:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
OP
Caporegime
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OP
Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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This brings up a subordinate issue here...namely that Clemenza had to go to the restaurant, and presumably order a meal, and then use the bathroom to plant the weapon..... it is surprising to me that Sol would not have had someone staked out there in advance. Had he done so that person would have recognized Clemenza and things would have turned out much differently.
What makes you think that Clemenza was the one who planted the gun? There was still plenty of time for Clemenza to have one of his people shoot over from the Corleone compound into the City to plant that gun. He is worried about Michael and also probably a bit concerned about how the Don will take this (whether it's a success or failure) once he is well enough to be told. Assume he's had a few days to think about the whole plan. While he surely agrees with Michael that the Turk must die or another attempt will be made on Vito's life...he also knows another war is about to begin. I think he has a big knot in the pit of his stomach about the whole thing.
Yes, Tom is freaking out, and for quite a number of reason.
Apple Excellent summation Apple. I totally agree with all that you've said.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom?
[Re: Don Cardi]
#542592
05/29/09 09:05 AM
05/29/09 09:05 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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This brings up a subordinate issue here...namely that Clemenza had to go to the restaurant, and presumably order a meal, and then use the bathroom to plant the weapon..... it is surprising to me that Sol would not have had someone staked out there in advance. Had he done so that person would have recognized Clemenza and things would have turned out much differently.
What makes you think that Clemenza was the one who planted the gun? There was still plenty of time for Clemenza to have one of his people shoot over from the Corleone compound into the City to plant that gun. Agreed. The way Sonny insists that "somebody good" plant the gun makes clear that he does not expect Clemenza to do it himself.
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom?
[Re: Don Cardi]
#542594
05/29/09 09:38 AM
05/29/09 09:38 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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What makes you think that Clemenza was the one who planted the gun? There was still plenty of time for Clemenza to have one of his people shoot over from the Corleone compound into the City to plant that gun.
Cause Michael said "If Clemenza can figure a way" to plant the gun. So I assumed this would not be something Clemenza would delegate, especially so close to the Paulie incident.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Second Thoughts For Tom?
[Re: dontomasso]
#542657
05/29/09 05:53 PM
05/29/09 05:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
OP
Caporegime
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OP
Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Ok, point taken. But I just don't think that he would risk blowing the plan by going there himself, and as you correctly pointed out, taking the chance of being recognized.
It's funny how we all interpret things differently when watching the same scenes.
I always assumed that Clemenza had someone plant the gun because of Sonny saying "Hey, listen, I want somebody good -- and I mean very good -- to plant that gun. I don't want my brother coming out of that toilet with just his dick in his hands, alright?" and Clemenza replying "The gun'll be there."
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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