i have lots of solid arguments that show that after christopher shoot jt he decided to flip. as a matter of fact in his final scene he is wearing a wire - in his hat!! anyone remember the last time a character wore a ballcap on the sopranos? yup, i forget the guys name but the fbi wired his hat. it was the "MOST" or Museam of Science and Trucking hat. with CM it's a Clever hat of course.

where was the blowback for jt's murder? tony would have been super pissed when he found out. apparently he never found out. how can this be? the cold mysterious blooded murder of a hollywood screenwriter with mob connections (Clever) didn't make the news? it must have been covered up then. by who? we see CM leave the scene. he just walks out. remember when tony killed ralph? all the precautions they took?
of course the cops covered it up as part of the christopher flipping deal.
that's why CM shot JT in the first place. because he at that moment decided to flip and didn't want to change his mind. shooting jt and waiting to get caught took all the decision out of it.
by the way, notice how the car flips in the accident? symbolism.
and after the wreck CM tells tony that he needs to get a cab because he's on drugs and if afraid he'l lose his licence. do you really think CM is afraid of losing a drivers licence? especially when he must know he needs an ambulance? no, what he's afraid of his that tony may see the paramedics find the wire. and why did he fall off the wagon that night anyway? to deal with the stress and shame of wearing the wire.
thoughts anyone?

the original "rat in the hat" was named Jack Massarone.

He didn't wear a wire, he just couldn't be trusted..

Now you know how I felt when I wrote like this.

ok. what happened with the jt murder then? how did CM not fry for that? they were known business partners on a very high profile project (clever). and why did CM do it? seconds before killing jt he's talking seriously about flipping.
why was CM high the night of the accident?
why does he suddenly start wearing a ballcap to business meetings? why after the accident in which he is obviously seriously injured does he ask tony to get him a cab instead of an ambulance? so he won't lose his license? he's CM. why would he give one shit about having a drivers license?
did you not see chris' hummer flipping, taking tony down, almost ruining him?

??
when you wrote what?

At first, I didn't think Chrissy would ever be a rat, but after multiple viewings on the final season, I actually think he did flip. But, I don't think the FBI caught him for the JT murder. Chris didn't want to get caught for that - how would you explain the fact he made sure he didn't leave his fingerprints on the doorknob.
However, if one recalls, at the end of the episode Christopher comes home to a yard that is completely wrecked (by Paulie), which is symbolic of the state of Christopher's mind and soul at the moment. Right before he enters his house, Chris stops and rights a tree (one could say he "flipped" it - right-side up) that had fallen on its side. I believe this stands for Christopher's final decision to flip on his own will. He went to the FBI - they didn't come to him.
But, he didn't have much time to inform the FBI of Tony's greatest crimes, as he is killed one episode later. Tony's luck subsequently changes at this very moment - notice how lucky he is in Vegas later in Kennedy and Heidi. The change of fortune is that Tony made the correct "business" decision in killing Chrissy, no matter how dreadful that decision was to his blood family.
Christopher may have very well been the one "giving grand jury testimony" Tony's lawyer mentions in the final episode.

= God exists!

There's no way of knowing for sure, of course, but the evidence against Christopher being a rat outweighs the evidence for.

That may be so, Capo. But the greatest aspect of (at least) the final season of the Sopranos is that, with all it's symbolism and Shakespearean nature, there's a variety of legitimate interpretations, which everyone is entitled to.

.....yeah, and so was Ade!!

I don't think Chris had yet flipped...maybe because I — and I suspect others here — don't want it to be so...but Jimithicke does raise an interesting question that raises my suspicion level a notch: Why WAS Chris wearing a ballcap in the meeting between Tony and Phil? It's a little unprofessional and something that no one had ever done up to that point (Massarone doesn't count as he was only a connected businessman). What, just out of the blue Chris decides to put on a ballcap to go to an important meeting? And since nothing in the Sopranos is done half-assed or without thought behind it, there had to be a reason for the cap.

On the other hand, the mic-in-the-cap trick had already been found out when Massarone was whacked and his stupid hat was stuffed in his mouth. It's not like it was original anymore. And Chris was on high that night because he had begun using again (starting the night he killed JT) and Chris was ALWAYS a little high when he started using.

Paddy is right that "nothing in the Sopranos is done half-assed or without thought behind it"
do you guys think that the mysterious murder of jt dolan should have made it into the newspaper? don't you think someone, no, everyone, would have connected chrissy to it? like the FBI, or at the very least, tony? what if tony did know, what would his reaction have been? remember when chrissy shot that civilian kid in the foot at the bakery? tony was super pissed. and JT was a murder! no, it was deliberately kept quiet by someone.
you really can't think that the murder just blew over.
it doesn't matter that massarone was not in the mob. the hat is the thing.
also - why did he shoot jt? just because jt said "mafia"? i don't buy it.
also, i don't think we know how much time passed between those episodes. there may have been plenty of time for the feds to bring chrissy in and fix his hat up like they did with masserone.
also, how do you guys explain him wanting a cab instead of an ambulance? this obviously was a curious request. tony just ignored it as he started to dial 911.

like what evidence against? did you see the episode where chris shoots jt? he wanted to flip! he said so. i find it odd that noone will accept that. hell, he was my favorite character too.

He said to JT that he knew alot that would break the familys back.

He doesn't want to flip, but doesn't want to carry on with Tony.

Yeah, but as with Shakespeare, there may not necessarily be a right interpretation, but I think there are many wrong ones.

This isn't necessarily the case here, I just think it needs some more thought. Though Christopher certainly had a recurring weakness and increasing frustration toward Tony, not to mention a vulnerabilty to the Feds, I don't think he was a rat at the time of his death.

Chase has said (in the Brett Martin series guide) that talking to the Feds was a recurring problem for Tony and his inner circle, and that at the end of the season there were probably more rats than we as an audience (and Chase as a writer) knew about. It's true: Raymond Curto was talking to the Feds but never got found out; nor did Eugene.

But Chase is talking about a fiction as if it's a real-life case. It might invite speculation from many viewers, but I'd prefer a more exegetic approach. Work with what you've got.

As for the cap: at which other point in the show does Christopher wear one? In his first ever scene, in which he is also chauffeuring Tony. When Tony notices the Cleaver cap in the hospital after killing Chris, he may as well be lamenting the earlier memory, not the fact he's just killed his would-be heir.

In the dissertation I just wrote, I noted how this motif brings Christopher's narrative full circle; he ends how he began, and in between all you've got is a series of disappointments. It's very cynical.

On J.T., and Christopher's killing him: Christopher seeks a way out, in his brash, intoxicated state. When J.T. (a degenerate himself, and knowing fine well it's better not to get involved with these guys because of previous incidents) refuses to help Christopher, the latter kills him. It's as brash and unwise a decision as it was to go there in the first place. J.T. lacks the understanding and humanity (and cultural commonality) of Adriana, and is thus unable to bring Christopher out of his way of thinking. Realising this, and realising too of his oath and duty to his Family, Christopher kills J.T. in order to cover his tracks. He knows fine well how J.T. is a leech, a loser, as much as he himself is; hence the decision to kill him. Though J.T. isn't in any position of confidence or power to use Christopher's words against him, Christopher can't take the risk.

----------

An unrelated note on rats: Maurice Yacowar notes the series' title, The Sopranos - and how to flip is to "sing", to the FBI. The Soprano is a high-pitched female singer, and this show's all about masculine values in a decaying contemporary system. A subtle in-joke, perhaps?

PS. There's a good article on "Walk Like a Man" here.

I would have ratted out Tony in a heart beat if I was Chris. Motherfucker doesn't appreciate me whacking my fiance, fuck the Omerta. She was hot as hell. I'd rather be looking at Ade naked every night then Tony's fat ass.

all right then Capo. your "dissertation" still says nothing about why tony never learned about Christopher's murder of jt? tony certainly reads the paper. so who covered it up? the cops of course.

you really think chris kills jt and leaves his body there to "cover his tracks"? do you think chris is that stupid? even if this was his reason for shooting him, do you really think it would work? to just abandon the body there? the police are indeed comical at times but they do exist, and they are actively after tony and Christopher for that matter. look at what eventually happened to Adrianna. there was a murder at her bar which she had nothing to do with except for trying to help cover it up. the cops put those pieces together despite her having no relationship with the victim and the effort to cover it up. they'd have to be idiots or not interested to not question CM about this.

you also says nothing about the obvious symbolism of the hummer FLIPPING in the air several times almost killing tony?

or why chris wants a cab instead of an ambulance...

and yes, there is plenty pleeeenty of motive for CM to rat out tony. now he's gotta beat a murder rap. of a civilian no less!

Wouldn't have been the first time, though. Remember the waiter in Atlantic City that Chris and Paulie killed? And in that case, Chris knew that he wasn't the only one who knew about it. For all he knew, Paulie could get the Feds to promise immunity from prosecution and then tell about the waiter murder. If Chris was ever worried about being found out about the murder of a civilian, it would have been then.

All I'm saying is there was a precedent. I haven't made up my mind if Chris was a rat when he died. We'll never know for sure, of course. All we can do is do what we're doing now.

true. but it's fun. that's what is so great about this show.

i remember the murder of the waiter. that i thought was one of the worst events in this show. it didn't make sense. it was sloppy as hell. in my opinion it was a way for the writers to form a truce between paulie and CM. but it's not the same as killing jt.

the waiter had no relationship to CM and they were unknown in Atlantic City (paulie says this). it's possible, however unlikely that the AC cops wouldn't connect this murder to the soprano crew. maybe they just got very lucky.

JT was a well known associate of CM and the rest of them for that matter. remember all of those guys financed Cleaver.... even if JT's role in the film was kept as a secret (i don't remember, but this seems highly unlikely). but CM and JT had a long open relationship.

please answer this honestly. in the sopranos universe, do you think the cops were curious about who murdered jt? do you think that they talked to CM about it? if they did, then why is that not even touched on again? how was the murder kept out of the press? no one here has answered these questions yet.

I definately isn't the cops who come through the door at Holsteins.

?

are there any adults that look at this site?

also, with the adriana thing CM did actually consider flipping. remember right after she tells him (after he beats her up) before he goes to tony, he goes to the gas station. at the gas station he is gassing up the hummer thinking about what to do. That is when he sees a poor family all climbing into a piece of shit car. remember the dad had a great mullet and was carrying mountain dew? that's when CM decided to go to tony instead of going into the witness protection program. he had adriana whacked(i.e. did not flip) because he didn't want to give up his lifestyle, not just out of loyalty.

later on when he's pouring his heart out to jt, he wishes that he would've flipped back then instead of giving up Adriana. He realizes that he made the wrong decision back then. He's drowning in regret. He then makes the decision of a lifetime. Not only will he flip but this time he'll make damn sure that this time he can't he sober up and back out. In killing jt he removes the decision this time around. he knows the cops will have him dead to rights and he'll fry if he doesn't flip.

Its obvious what I mean't. Your all explaining possible meanings and outcomes. I was just pointing out that Chrissy didn't flip, hence the cops didn't walk through the door as Tony looked up.

Some people will say that its possible the cops were the ones through the door, as they grabbed Meadow before she reached the door, but I can tell you its impossible to even make that little what if because it clearly shows on YouTube, Meadow walking through the door on the "wrap up" footage.

lompac, i never said the cops came though the door at holsteins. and obviously that didn't happen. and this to you means that christopher didn't flip? are you drunk?

The scene served a purpose. It showed that these guys are really petty and not particularly bright.

A lot of their alliances are based on common experiences (they may have killed someone together, for instance).

i hate argue with everyone about everything on here but, how did that show that they are petty? i thought it was out of character for them to react that way. very sloppy.

They were arguing over a $1200 check (I THINK that was the figure). In the general scheme of things, especially considering it was a big night out for all the guys, I think that was a petty thing to argue about (and Chris should have known that as the low man on the totem pole he'd be stuck with the check). They argued over what the other ordered... that's not petty?

arguing over getting stuck with a $10 check would be petty. as you said the check was $1,200. yes it was CM's role to get it but paulie made sure it was inflated just to screw with him. i'd have been pissed too.

Honestly, I think your points are all very valid and interesting, but no more so than anyone who might reply with the following:

"But since we don't see Christopher ratting, and all we've got to go on is incidental symbolism from which to extrapolate meanings to suit our purpose, then he isn't a rat. It's not significant enough to be a storyline in itself though, otherwise Chase would have made it a storyline, and it would have been major. Chase isn't that subtle."

In short, I'd be content to say it's a very valid possibility that Christopher was ratting to the Feds. But with the evidence at hand, I remain agnostic, with a preference to saying that No, he wasn't.

Cops would have been curious about who murdered JT, but that's a speculation that could easily be met by positing another what-if: what if Chris rang Benny up, or Little Paulie, and had one of them get rid of the evidence? That's just as rational an assumption as yours, I think. Even if Chris is heavily intoxicated at the time.

The rest of your questions needn't be asked in light of these perpetual, mutually-defeating what-if scenarios. But Yes, if the cops did find the body, and did question Chris, then Chase and his writers are guilty of short-cutting, of leaving us short of reality. But I don't think that the cops seeing JT's body would then be able to leap to the conclusion that Chris did it. It would be long and drawn out, and the Feds would have nothing concrete to pin on him.

First off i appreciate your thoughtful response, however i disagree.

You say: "But since we don't see Christopher ratting, and all we've got to go on is incidental symbolism from which to extrapolate meanings to suit our purpose, then he isn't a rat. It's not significant enough to be a storyline in itself though, otherwise Chase would have made it a story line, and it would have been major. Chase isn't that subtle."

Wrong, Chase IS that subtle, especially in the final season. EVERYTHING means something. it is a story line in that it is NOT a story line. Chase loves these background stories -things that are going on that he doesn't show us. he want's us to follow clues to discover what is really happening. he constantly throws red herings to challenge us.

As for someone else coming to clean up the mess, i suppose that is possible. but why not show that phone call or the meeting? didn't that JT murder story line seem to be left hanging to you? in the context of all the other murders on the show, this is pretty serious. way more serious that the waiter in AC or any other random civilian who gets caught in the cross fire.
i know chase leaves things hanging out there (i.e. Furio, the russian in the woods) but this is a little more important. and very close to home.

it is a a very deliberate decision by Chase to not follow this story line in an obvious way. WHY do you think Chase does this? instead he toys with us, providing motive and method. Then he leaves subtle clues. he flips the hummer. he even throws in a cat to stare at the picture of CM.

still no one has commented on why CM does not want an ambulance after accident.

The Cat was staring at the Picture of Chris because he liked and missed Chris. Ade's dog was the cats worst enemy from down the street and after Chris accidentally whacked the Dog, the cat had profound respect for him.

This is at once interesting and negligible.


The exact same thing could be said for not showing Christopher meeting with the Feds.


In retrospect, yeah, I suppose it was. I've never really thought about until reading this thread. I'd actually put it down to poetic license, though, than anything else. It's a continuity fault on the part of Chase and co., not some genius subtlety.

The Sopranos is rich in subtext, but its symbolism is more obvious and immediate (ie. Bobby's model train entering a tunnel just after Vito and Johnny Cakes get heated up, which was hilarious).

I'm not one to treat the narrative as a puzzle.

Oh, and Christopher wants a cab because a medic would realise he's high.

"I'll never pass a blood test, T."

He's also probably concussed, and completely in denial about his need to go to hospital.

Could you please post a link to this video, Lompac? I'd love to see the footage!

Also, I don't think it would be reasonable to have to find a solution to the question here. No one can say with 100 % certainty whether Chris was a rat or not. That is EXACTLY what Chase wants - if we knew Chris was a rat, then some might view Tony's killing of Chris as justified. If he wasn't a rat, Tony's killing becomes more horrifying. Yet, if we are left with a degree of uncertainty, we are left in Tony's point of view, as we are for most of the show. In season 6B, more than any other season (one could argue), everything is focused on developing our opinions of Tony. What Chase wants is to create an air of disgust and dislike in Tony Soprano. After all, he is a murderer and criminal.

you are lazy. you miss the beauty of the show if you refuse to examine it closely.

this seems to be a cop out response.

Do people with concussions do that? do they refuse treatment for trivial reasons? are we to rule out anything anyone says after an accident as invalid then? maybe that is why tony killed CM, because tony was concussed also.

to CM a valid or even real drivers license would be a trivial concern. THese guys are professionals at faking and falsification. Remember the stock trading company CM ran? or all of the stolen/phoney calling cards, airline tickets, etc. they sold? I'm certain he cares very little about whether the state of NJ considers him a valid driver or not. I'm certain he'd rather not die than lose his license.

unless we want to just write off everything weird he does/says after the accident as the inconsequential and meaningless product of a blow to the head, this should raise questions as to CM's real motivation for refusing treatment.

yet he tells tony that this is his reason for not wanting an ambulance.

thank you. but there is more... just like in life. i can't prove the cm flipped it is a work of art and not real life and because chase does not allow us to see it happen. i think all of the evidence points to the fact that he did flip. i think this is chase at his best. he developed these characters over time with such complexity that if you are watching closely you can fill in some blanks and deduce a whole separate story line which explains what on the surface be inexplicable behavior, such as: killing JT, the hat, the refusal of treatment, the overly dramatic flipping of the hummer, the mysterious cat staring at his picture...

again this subtlety is the fun of the sopranos. to blow shit off as coincidence or as the result of a concussion, or even to try to understand their behavior through the lens of your own (presumably normal) value system or world view is to miss the greatness of the show. then to me you are just another clown who watched the show just to see paulie occasionally beat people up. to reduce tony to black and white - a monster or not a monster.

actually i looked at that episode. they didn't stuff the hat in massarone's mouth. they put a golf club cover in there. i believe it was a 5 iron? it ad a 5 on it anyway. but the hat is nowhere to be seen in the trunk. there is no indication that they knew about the hat.

Chris wasnt a rat. I always thought carmella was the one who was going to be the one who brought down the jersey mafia so she could save her own family.

ds

I totally agree with you.

I've always liked Christopher. I could always relate to him (in so many ways).

I think that this raises a brilliant point. He could well be a rat. We have already been through that story line with Big Pussy, so David would very well decide not to repeat it through Christophers character. (Doesn't mean it isn't so) Did Ralphie kill the horse. Was that Barry Haydu really Chrissys fathers killer. Does Tony realise Chris gave Meadow her first stash of drugs when she confronts her father about it in the episode College. (He certainly sits at the dinner table thinking it through) And what happened to the guy in Pine Barrens. This show was meant for open interpretation. And means we could all be right in our own ways.

It is Carmine who suggests the extra kill in Cleaver for cinematic effect and not in fact Christopher. But Carmela convinces Tony that it is a personal dig at him. The relationship again takes a bad nosedive. Just maybe Chris thinks if i had not put all my trust and faith into this mob family i would still have Adriana and we wouldn't have gone through all of this. Maybe he does flip...well done.

However I believe the heroine (Which has a close resemblance to the pain killing drug that hospitals use - morphine) may have allowed Christopher to feel no pain from his injuries, which in turn, allows him to ask for a taxi in a kind of black humour way. It's sad cause i think hes so high he cant feel the pain.

In a way that is the obvious thing really. Im happy with that answer. In saving private ryan and the second world war they'd issue heroine for total pain relief. Trust me, Christopher isn't feeling it at that point.
And another thing, anyone hating Tony a little, Chris does look in really bad shape. When he opens the door, the metal interior causes Chris to cough up alot of blood. He may well have passed away anyway.

I'm new here,but heres my take......Christopher was a rat.......and this is a big strech......
remember when CM and Tony are driving and Christopher turns up the volume on the radio.
Perhaps he turned up the volume in order to help conceal the fact that his wire wasn't wasn't working right and Tony could hear some "feedback" or etc...

and in closing..when the accident happened......the SUV "rolled over"......just like a rat does...

A big stretch is RIGHT...but interesting point. However, even I don't think Chase is THAT subtle.

Chris was a lot of things a drug addict, a loose canon but no rat. Think about it he had plenty of oppurtunities to rat but remained loyal to the family. Hell he even gave up his fiance to be killed in order to remain loyal and not break the omerta so i doubt Chris would even turn despite what he said when he was drunk

He Didnt get Whacked?
Let his woman get clipped by Sil?
Heroin Junkie-Yes..Rat.?

I doubt Chris was rat. Believe me Chris was a lot fo things a junkie,bad temperment, disorganized. But the one thing you can say is that he never cooperated with the FBI. If you need proof look at the Adriana situation he could have become and rat to be with his girl but he said fuck that and let her die. Also Chris never regretted that decision he just wanted some gratitude which Tony never gave. Everyone says Silvio was the most loyal and Iagree but Chris was definetly up there. Paulie was a blabbermouth who came close to being clipped I still don't know why Tony spared him because he knew that he was talking to New York.

Three words on this topic:

Not A Chance.

David Chase would have used every opportunity to suck us into that storyline.

Naw Chris was not a rat, I think he was considering it after the party before he went to JT's apartment, he was talking about how none of the guys had his back and were laughing at him, but the momeent JT showed that he didnt have his back Chris realized that one he had said to much to JT, which was why he killed him and 2 he found out that the other side would not have his back either so his best bet was to stick with Tony. I think Chase showed us how Chris was thinking when at the end as he was walking to into his house, he stood the tree back up, stood it up or was that stand it up as in "I am a stand up guy"

Yeah, I agree with Jvanley. A development that huge would've been made way more apparent to the audience. It's an interesting theory though.

You make a convincing argument. I am not convinced yet. I am going to have to consider this. But I must admit,
There is motive
Evidence
And a well laid out conspiracy.

The best thing Tony Soprano ever did as a mob boss was to kill Christopher Moltisanti. He was close to cooperating when Adriana told him about her situation. Then that scene with JT. It's obvious he had given this some serious thought and yeah that ballcap always looked a little off to me. Tony knew there was something going on with him. It wasn't just the drugs.

i dont think christopher was a rat. he was just a young gangster who thought he was more important than he really was and felt entitled to more than he had earned. I do understand y people say tony wanted chris gone and i am okay with that i just hate the way they did it.

you guys make my head spin with all these good theories

There is no proof to this. Chris wouldnt have ratted...

he wasn't high during the crash, he was with tony for the last several hours, it doesnt last days the high

stays in ur blood stream for days tho

yeah i know, but he said the h caused chris to feel no pain from the crash making him indifferent.

i shot heroin for ten years. i know all about it. no h in the world to make u not feel that pain. esp 6 or 7 hrs after u did it. i was refering to being in his bloodstream as to his story as to why he wanted tony to switch seats with him. "loosing his license" it would show up in blood results.

well, maybe itll last a good 6-8 hrs sometimes but hes probably not going to shoot up right before a sitdown with tony and ny. dont forget he was not shooting up at that time, just snorting and smoking it... smoking lasts like 30 min...

my point is at the time of the crash he was not pain free because of h. he might have been in shock making it kind of painless.

also for all those taht say it was a hummer, if i remember correctly it was a escalade truck.

This is an effect David Chase created to make the audience think and wonder. When Tony was chatting with Paulie and Furio at his mother’s wake, he sees Pussy Bonpensiero in the mirror. It makes the watchers ask questions.