I still don't get the point about this. Obama and Ayers were at the same time board members of an NGO which was sponsored by the Republican Party too. And that's all?? If you do political work, you can't always choose the people you're working with. Ayers is still working at the University of Illinois. Does that make all the rest of the professors at that university suspects? 11 years ago I was working for an NGO who had hired a rather unpleasant guy as a teacher. In 2001 I recognised him as one of the 9/11 pilots. Does that make me someone who's "palling around with terrorists"?
To the supporters of George W. Bush (possibly the worst president this country has ever seen) like Apple and Don Cardi, yes. It just naturally follows that McCain supporters would feel the same way.
It's guilt by association, albeit quite distant.
.
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008
[Re: SC]
#518136 10/30/0809:58 AM10/30/0809:58 AM
I still don't get the point about this. Obama and Ayers were at the same time board members of an NGO which was sponsored by the Republican Party too. And that's all?? If you do political work, you can't always choose the people you're working with. Ayers is still working at the University of Illinois. Does that make all the rest of the professors at that university suspects? 11 years ago I was working for an NGO who had hired a rather unpleasant guy as a teacher. In 2001 I recognised him as one of the 9/11 pilots. Does that make me someone who's "palling around with terrorists"?
To the supporters of George W. Bush (possibly the worst president this country has ever seen) like Apple and Don Cardi, yes. It just naturally follows that McCain supporters would feel the same way.
It's guilt by association, albeit quite distant.
I thought guilt by association went out with McCarthyism.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
Iceman, I believe that your attitude leads more to these supposed "attacks" than your views. If you don't discuss ideas, if you don't exchange thoughts, then how would anyone ever learn anything new or different?
Yeah I mean at least Freddie C. has the courtesy to debate us, and not simply launch a missile and then go MIA for several days.
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
As for Senator Obama's "associations", the insinuations are insulting and demeaning. I notice that the only "stories" that are publicized are those that have him with "terrorists" or "shady" non-profit organizations that work with minorities. To me, that plays on the internal racist in all of us. He looks different. He has a "funny name". Therefore, he must be a suspicious character.
What I think is ironic is that in 2012 or 2016, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal will probably run for the GOP Presidential nomination, and I think he and NOT Sarah Palin will be the future of the party.
Get a good luck at him Iceman/Appleonya/DoubleJ:
If Obama has had problems because of his skin and funny Arab-sounding name, Jindal is gonna have to rough it out because of his face. Just imagine those same Palin supporters, and probably Huckabee stumpers as well, saying in coded subtle language, how Jindal is a terrorist too, or pals around with them.
You know, in spite of the fact that he's Indian-American and Roman Catholic (though he apparently was involved in a mean exorcism once. No really.)
Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
If you disagree with his stance on energy, on abortion, on the economy, with his healthcare plan, then fine. Tell us WHAT you object to and, more importantly, WHY you object to it and why you think that Senator McCain has a better plan. But posting articles that call him a "Jew-hater" or accuse him of associating with terrorists just smacks of the lowest and most baseless biases.
EXACTLY. You can be rather intelligent in picking either candidate, but don't vote because one is old or the other has a funny name or whatever nonsense.
Hell, Freddie C. had the courtesy to debate Obama's taxplan...which I think is a legit concern.
Last edited by ronnierocketAGO; 10/30/0811:21 AM.
Re: CAMPAIGN 2008
[Re: SC]
#518143 10/30/0811:27 AM10/30/0811:27 AM
I still don't get the point about this. Obama and Ayers were at the same time board members of an NGO which was sponsored by the Republican Party too. And that's all?? If you do political work, you can't always choose the people you're working with. Ayers is still working at the University of Illinois. Does that make all the rest of the professors at that university suspects? 11 years ago I was working for an NGO who had hired a rather unpleasant guy as a teacher. In 2001 I recognised him as one of the 9/11 pilots. Does that make me someone who's "palling around with terrorists"?
To the supporters of George W. Bush (possibly the worst president this country has ever seen) like Apple and Don Cardi, yes. It just naturally follows that McCain supporters would feel the same way.
It's guilt by association, albeit quite distant.
Using their logic.....how about that Vietnamese POW guard who endorsed McCain?
You know, the same one that beat the shit out of him and other American prisoners for years?
svsg - just wondering, given your recent and quite avid interest in the election, if you are allowed to vote in this country?
No SB, I am not a US citizen. I don't have voting rights.
Then I welcome your observations even more. As an "outsider" (for want of a better word), your views of the campaign and election process may be quite different than mine, and I am truly interested in hearing them.
If Barack Obama fails to win the election, perhaps the networks should hire him to entertain viewers on Wednesday nights.
On average, Obama's 30-minute primetime infomercial managed to outperform the usual broadcast programming in the 8 p.m. time period.
The Obama special was seen by 26.3 million viewers across broadcasters CBS, NBC and Fox, according to preliminary Nielsen ratings.
The tricky question is: What do you compare Obama's ad to? After all, such a national pre-election special hasn't been attempted in 16 years.
The entertainment programming that usually runs in the slot on those three networks has averaged a cumulative 23.1 million viewers each week since the start of the season -- 12% lower than the Obama ad total. Put another way, the time period averages about 7.7 million viewers and a 2.4 adults 18-49 rating per network. In the preliminary ratings, the ad pulled an average of 9.2 million viewers and a 2.7 average rating per network -- boosting the advertiser-friendly adult demo by 13%.
But the usual shows are comedies and dramas. Can one realistically compare "Knight Rider" to a political ad? That would normally seem unfair -- to the politician. Obama improved NBC's rating by 43% and CBS by 10% compared with last week. And keep in mind Obama was competing against himself.
The lowest-rated of the three presidential debates received a 52.4 million viewers -- but that was carried by more networks and was, after all, a debate.
The Ross Perot specials in 1992 averaged 11.6 million viewers, but those were 15 separate specials that ran on different nights.
NBC was the most-viewed and highest-rated network for its presentation of Obama's ad, pulling 9.8 million viewers and a 3.0 rating. CBS had 8.6 million (2.3) and Fox had 7.9 million (2.8).
And keep in mind, the Obama ad aired on more networks than just those three broadcasters. MSNBC, Univision, BET and TV One also carried the ad. Nielsen will release a total viewership number that includes other telecasts later today. The measurement company has released a cume metered market household rating for the ad -- 21.7.
The race for the White House has tightened significantly -- with Barack Obama now ahead of John McCain by three percentage points -- according to a FOX News poll released Thursday.
Dana Blanton
FOXNews.com
Thursday, October 30, 2008
As the candidates make their closing arguments before the election, the race has tightened with Barack Obama now leading John McCain by 47 percent to 44 percent among likely voters, according to a FOX News poll released Thursday. Last week Obama led by 49-40 percent among likely voters.
Obama has a bit more strength of support going into the final week. Among his backers, 88 percent say they support him "strongly" and 12 percent "only somewhat." For McCain, 78 percent of his voters support him "strongly" and 22 percent "only somewhat."
In addition, 66 percent of Obama's supporters say it is "extremely important" to them that their candidate wins compared to 59 percent of McCain supporters.
The race has tightened in part because of changes in a couple of important swing voting groups. Independents back Obama by 5 percentage points today, down from a 9-point edge last week. Similarly, among white Catholics, Obama held an 11-point edge over McCain last week and today they split 46-46.
"Independent voters have long been regarded as one of the keys to this race and these results may foreshadow a tightening in the battleground states where independents carry disproportionate weight," says Ernie Paicopolos, a principal of Opinion Dynamics Corporation.
Another reason the numbers have tightened is that McCain has also improved his position among his party faithful, and the number of voters identifying themselves as Republicans has seen an up-tick as well. Fully 88 percent of Republicans back McCain, up from 83 percent last week. For Obama, 89 percent of Democrats support him, up slightly from 88 percent.
New voters, those 11 percent who have registered in the last two years, support Obama by 54-38 percent.
Obama also has a 52-43 percent edge over McCain among the more than one of five voters who say they have taken advantage of early voting in their state and already voted.
Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 likely voters for FOX News from October 28 to October 29. The poll has a 3-point error margin. "Likely voters" are registered voters who are considered more likely to vote in the November presidential election.
Top Issues
The economy continues to far outdistance all other issues as the top priority for voters this year, and while Obama maintains an advantage on the economy, McCain has chipped away at those numbers. By an 8-point margin Obama is seen as the candidate who voters trust to handle the economy, down from a 15-point edge.
The Democrat also has the lead on handling health care (+ 11 points) and energy independence (+9 points).
McCain is preferred on handling the war on terrorism (+14 points) and Iraq (+7 points).
More voters trust Obama to handle the issue of taxes (+6 points) even though nearly three times as many think their taxes will go up under an Obama administration (20 percent) as think the same about a McCain administration (7 percent). A 55 percent majority thinks their taxes will go up no matter which candidate wins.
Recently Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden said the next president would be "tested" by an international crisis in the first six months of his presidency. Who do voters think would better respond to that test? McCain has a 52-39 percent advantage over Obama on this measure. Among those important independent voters, McCain holds a similar edge: 53-37 percent.
Candidate Qualities
The candidate quality cited by voters as most important in their vote is "can bring needed change" (32 percent), followed closely by "shares my values" (26 percent). Some 19 percent say having the right experience is the most important quality -- about half the number citing change.
Change voters are more likely to back Obama by 79-13 percent, while values voters back McCain by 63-28 percent. Among those citing experience as most important, they support McCain by 85-9 percent.
By 73-19 percent Obama bests McCain among the 10 percent who say "cares about people like me" is their top quality.
Almost all voters -- 78 percent -- think McCain has the right experience to be president. That includes a 64 percent majority of Democrats. Significantly fewer voters -- 49 percent -- think Obama has the right experience for the Oval Office (48 percent say he doesn't).
A 53 percent majority thinks Obama can bring the "right kind of change to Washington" while a 52 percent majority says McCain can't.
While 43 percent of voters think Obama's positions on the issues are "too liberal," half say his positions are "about right." The numbers are similar for McCain -- 38 percent say he's "too conservative" and 46 percent "about right."
Vice Presidential Candidates
Voters are fairly split on whether they would be comfortable with Joe Biden as vice president -- 45 percent would be "extremely" or "very" comfortable and 52 percent would not be comfortable.
For Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, 34 percent would be either "extremely" or "very" comfortable with her as vice president and 64 percent would not.
One of five (20 percent) Democrats would be uncomfortable with Biden as vice president and one of three (33 percent) Republicans would be uncomfortable with Palin.
By an 18-point margin more voters have a positive view of Biden than a negative view (55 percent favorable and 37 percent unfavorable).
Views of Palin are much more mixed: 49 percent favorable and 46 percent unfavorable.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Joe the Plumber was supposed to show up at a McCain rally this morning but did not because he said no one called him to confirm.
It gets better than that. McCain didn't even know he wasn't there.
McCAIN (after the rally) "You just can't trust these trades people any more. Back in my day when the plumber aid he'd be there on time, by God, he was there. But nowadays no one cares about a damn thing. HEY...tell those kids to get off my lawn. This is private property."
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
The race for the White House has tightened significantly -- with Barack Obama now ahead of John McCain by three percentage points -- according to a FOX News poll released Thursday.
I read that. FWIW, Obama has gone up 2 points in each of the last two days in Zogby's poll (+7), and he's also up today in the Rasmussen and Gallup polls. None of these polls reflect any impact that Clinton and the infomercial from yesterday might have had.
It gets better than that. McCain didn't even know he wasn't there.
McCAIN (after the rally) "You just can't trust these trades people any more. Back in my day when the plumber aid he'd be there on time, by God, he was there. But nowadays no one cares about a damn thing. HEY...tell those kids to get off my lawn. This is private property."
Listen to the groans, and then 'crickets' after McCain says: "Joe is with us today". It sucked all the life out of the rally.
I still don't get the point about this. Obama and Ayers were at the same time board members of an NGO which was sponsored by the Republican Party too. And that's all?? If you do political work, you can't always choose the people you're working with. Ayers is still working at the University of Illinois. Does that make all the rest of the professors at that university suspects? 11 years ago I was working for an NGO who had hired a rather unpleasant guy as a teacher. In 2001 I recognised him as one of the 9/11 pilots. Does that make me someone who's "palling around with terrorists"?
To the supporters of George W. Bush (possibly the worst president this country has ever seen) like Apple and Don Cardi, yes. It just naturally follows that McCain supporters would feel the same way.
It's guilt by association, albeit quite distant.
Danito, if the fact of the matter is that you just happened to be working for NGO at the same time that one of the 9/11 murders did, that in no way means that you are guilty of anything.
As for what I posted about Obama's asociation with the names that I listed, well please put it in the context that it was menat to be in when reading it. Notice the "coinicidental" little cirlce there and how one person intertwined and/ or was involved with another in some capacity. It just so happens that the convicted felon from that "little circle" happened to also be a member of Obama's campaign finance committee who just happened to approach the board of directors of the Woods fund that this Columbia Professor's wife was President of while Obama just happened to be serving on the board of directors along with someone else on that same board who was a member of a terrorist group who had bombed the US capitol in 1971.
Perhaps you and your friend SC, yes, should do a bit more research and look into into how Senator Obama just happened to get involved in a land deal with the convicted felon who was once a key member of Obama's campaign finance committee. A deal that took place at a time when it was widely known that he was under investigation.
It has nothing to do with my being a George Bush supporter whatsoever. As far as I am concerned this Presidential election is about the TWO candidates who are running for President right now, what they stand for, what THEIR backgrounds are, what they've done, and what they say they plan to do for the people of this country. That is what concerns me.
What do we really know about Senator Barack Obama as far as his background goes? What experience does he really have that qualifies him to take on the most responsible and burdensome job of running an entire country and leading it as the Commander In Chief?
McCain's resume is much larger than Obama's. McCain has a background that is a solid one that can be and has been varified, with maybe a minimal amount of unanswered questions.
If both these men were applying for a job in a company that I owned and I went over both of their resumes and did a background check on both of them, it would be irresponsible of me not to hire someone like John McCain over Barack Obama, to work for my company.
Don Cardi
Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
Then I welcome your observations even more. As an "outsider" (for want of a better word), your views of the campaign and election process may be quite different than mine, and I am truly interested in hearing them.
Since you are truly interested in hearing my view, you have to bear with me on this long reply
On two-party system:
I understand that there can be independent candidates, but for all practical purposes they have no chance of winning. I think this is a good system in a way. In places where multiple (strong) parties are present, nobody gets the majority and they always tend to form coalitions after the election to reach majority. That process is so full of corruption inherently.
On polarized views
The down side to the above mentioned point is that people are ridiculously one sided and polarized. Why can’t people say (example, not literally) “I like the health plan and tax rates of Obama and I like McCain’s views on abortion and war, but currently I am more worried about health, so I’ll vote for Obama” or something like that. Why do people have to find all the bogus stories about the other candidate they don’t support and claim victories for the candidate they support in all the debates and stuff?
On the type of issues
This election is now concentrating on economic issues and taxes etc primarily because of the recession, collapse of financial/mortgage industry and oil prices. That is very good. They should also be talking about education and health. I never understood the stuff like pro/anti life, guns and gay marriage being election issues. I know it affects some, but is everyone happy with all the other basic stuff like jobs and health before they jump into all those big pro/anti life questions?
On the debates
Maybe because I come from a place where the politicians are illiterate and corrupt mobsters, I find the idea of debates very fascinating. Politicians waiting for their turn to answer questions and not interrupting each other and shouting some non-sense in itself is great. But in addition, the candidates are very knowledgeable on a variety of topics. I may or may not agree with their views, but they certainly have an answer to everyone’s questions (mostly).
On this election being historic
As I have seen minority and women presidents/prime-ministers before not only in my country, but also in several other Asian countries, I firmly believe that nothing historic or great is going to happen. They all do the same things, the system is such, no one person can do anything. I am actually sorry for people who are unreasonably optimistic about the outcome of this election.
On race being an issue
People cannot be changed overnight. Race will play a big role, no matter what people claim. But after one black president, no one will care about it so much.
My personal views on issues
Economy: I don’t think either of them can do anything. It is so complex that I doubt if anyone has a sure shot cure. Both have endorsed the bailout, but whoever loses the election is going to blame the guy in power for the bad economy.
Taxes: All tax is not income tax. Everything from toilet-paper to a haircut is taxed. All industries are affected by taxation. So finally how the businesses will pass on the cost to the customers and how much income tax gets reduced is very complex to compute. Both candidates are making tall claims. I have wait and watch how this will work out finally. But I guess Obama’s policies will be good for someone on a small income (I hope).
Health: Hillary was big on this, but not these two.
Education: haha, what happened to this one? Is everyone happy with the system?
War: No way I can support McCain on this. It is ridiculous on every point. I support Obama on this. Diplomacy is the way to go, not bombing.
Immigration: Actually I am not so interested in immigration , but I am very concerned about what they have got for non-immigrant visa holders like me. I am not immigrating and I am working here legally after obtaining higher education in a US university. Right now the policies are kind of bad. People are talking about giving citizenship for illegal immigrants who have crossed border and stuff, but the rules for legal foreign workers are extremely convoluted. That is, even for just working here or becoming a permanent resident (not talking about citizenship).McCain has policies favorable to me. I support him on this. Obama will most likely screw me with this.
Pro-life/Choice/gay-marriage: Frankly I don’t give a damn, but if it were the deciding issue, I go with the more liberal view always. So I favor Obama with this (BTW, he doesn’t believe in gay marriage, right?–what kind of liberal is he).
Don’t know if I covered all the key points. Ask me if you are interested
McCain's resume is much larger than Obama's. McCain has a background that is a solid one that can be and has been varified, with maybe a minimal amount of unanswered questions.
If both these men were applying for a job in a company that I owned and I went over both of their resumes and did a background check on both of them, it would be irresponsible of me not to hire someone like John McCain over Barack Obama, to work for my company.
Hey DC, since you and I seem to connect best when I bring it down to a sports analogy, this is how I look at it.
McCain is the 10 year journeyman nearing the end. Never been a star and never will be. Won't put up any big numbers. Should be able to fill in.
Obama is the high 1st round draft pick. Raw but talented. Unlimited upside. Could/should be a star. Needs the right team around him to grow.
McCain's resume is much larger than Obama's. McCain has a background that is a solid one that can be and has been varified, with maybe a minimal amount of unanswered questions.
If both these men were applying for a job in a company that I owned and I went over both of their resumes and did a background check on both of them, it would be irresponsible of me not to hire someone like John McCain over Barack Obama, to work for my company.
Hey DC, since you and I seem to connect best when I bring it down to a sports analogy, this is how I look at it.
McCain is the 10 year journeyman nearing the end. Never been a star and never will be. Won't put up any big numbers. Should be able to fill in.
Obama is the high 1st round draft pick. Raw but talented. Unlimited upside. Could/should be a star. Needs the right team around him to grow.
I like your analogy Lou.
But here's how I look at it : The game is all tied up, it's down to the final shootout with each team having one shot left. The team that scores the next goal can get into the playoffs. As the coach do you put a Rookie in, who you just brought up from the juniors and who hasn't proven anything in his career, to hopefully bring you into the playoffs or do you put the experienced 10 year journeyman out there to take the shot that can get you to the next level?
Don Cardi
Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
Danito, if the fact of the matter is that you just happened to be working for NGO at the same time that one of the 9/11 murders did, that in no way means that you are guilty of anything.
As for what I posted about Obama's asociation with the names that I listed, well please put it in the context that it was menat to be in when reading it. Notice the "coinicidental" little cirlce there and how one person intertwined and/ or was involved with another in some capacity. It just so happens that the convicted felon from that "little circle" happened to also be a member of Obama's campaign finance committee who just happened to approach the board of directors of the Woods fund that this Columbia Professor's wife was President of while Obama just happened to be serving on the board of directors along with someone else on that same board who was a member of a terrorist group who had bombed the US capitol in 1971.
Perhaps you and your friend SC, yes, should do a bit more research and look into into how Senator Obama just happened to get involved in a land deal with the convicted felon who was once a key member of Obama's campaign finance committee. A deal that took place at a time when it was widely known that he was under investigation.
It has nothing to do with my being a George Bush supporter whatsoever. As far as I am concerned this Presidential election is about the TWO candidates who are running for President right now, what they stand for, what THEIR backgrounds are, what they've done, and what they say they plan to do for the people of this country. That is what concerns me.
What do we really know about Senator Barack Obama as far as his background goes? What experience does he really have that qualifies him to take on the most responsible and burdensome job of running an entire country and leading it as the Commander In Chief?
McCain's resume is much larger than Obama's. McCain has a background that is a solid one that can be and has been varified, with maybe a minimal amount of unanswered questions.
If both these men were applying for a job in a company that I owned and I went over both of their resumes and did a background check on both of them, it would be irresponsible of me not to hire someone like John McCain over Barack Obama, to work for my company.
With all due respect, DC, I do not share your concerns. I agree it was sleazy of Obama to throw his weight around to get his house, but no worse than McCain's palling around with Charles Keating, which IMHO is far more troublesome. Obama is a graduate of Columbia University and it is not surprising that he has associations with. As I understand it McCain has some kind of connection to the Palestinian professor as well. There is NOTHING wrong with talking to people on different sides of an issue even when they happen to disagree with the Zionist (as distinguished from the Israeli)agenda. As for Ayers and his wife, it is more troubling to me that he said what he said after 9/11 than what he did back in 1971, when things were pretty crazy in this country (don't forget a year earlier U.S. troops fired on and killed innocent demonstrators at Kent State...this does not justify bombing the pentagon, but it is indicative of the divisiveness of those times). In any case the Ayers thing is a non starter. He and Obama served on some board, and apparently Ayers threw a fund raiser for his failed run for congress.
Personally I think the next president should listen to all kinds of points of view on all kinds of issues. We have had enough of this "You are either with us or agaist us" nonsense, and McCain offers more of the same.
You say we should not be focusing on Bush but on the people running now. I do not agree that the GOP should not be held accountable for his disastrous administration, but for the sake of this posting I will concede the point, and take your example of "who would you hire." When examining this you have to look not only at the presidential picks, but the vice presidents as well. Quite bluntly Sarah Palin is not qualified to be the president of the United States. Period. McCain's picking her demonstrates the kind of irrational and impetuous thinking that has made him a colorful and sometimes great senator, but it (among many other things) also shows he lacks the temperament to be president. No question that we would al like to have seen Obama serve another term in the senate or a term or two as governor of Illinois, but bottom line I am bot buying into this smear campaign of rumors and innuendo that has been circulating this past week...and I am mindful that McCain has put this race within 5 points in lss than a week since he started with this "socialist" "terrorist" and guilt by association business. Even though Biden is a one man gaffe machine who "talks when he should listen," as Vito might say, he is head and shoulders more qualified to help Obama and to step in if need be. Our greatest challenge is going to be economic, not military. If we continue to bleed money and lose our industral base while China continues an economic and military build up, all this Muslim business is going to look like a day at the beach in another decade. We need to move forward, not backward, and we need someone wth the vision to get us moving again. This makes Obama-Biden an easy choice.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
I agree 100%. I've run the gamut. I've gone from cautiously optimistic to over confident, and now I'm back to worrying again.
You need to relax. It is unheard of for the polls not to tighten somewhat near the end of an election.
Here's the latest "Karl Rove's State of the Race":
Election 2008: State of the Race National polls have started to show the presidential race tightening, but 66 state polls released so far this week haven’t captured any significant movement toward John McCain. In fact, since Sunday, Nevada (5 EV) has flipped from toss-up to Obama, giving him 311 electoral votes to McCain’s 157, with 70 as a toss-up. McCain still needs to pick up all of the current toss-up states—which all went for Bush in both 2000 and 2004—and peel off several large states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Virginia from Obama.
I know, Lou. I keep thinking back to '80, which was actually the first Presidential race ever I voted in. I voted for Reagan, but I remember Carter doing well in the polls right up until late October.
And after 2000 and 2004, well, need I even say it?
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
It just so happens that the convicted felon from that "little circle" happened to also be a member of Obama's campaign finance committee who just happened to approach the board of directors of the Woods fund that this Columbia Professor's wife was President of while Obama just happened to be serving on the board of directors along with someone else on that same board who was a member of a terrorist group who had bombed the US capitol in 1971. 
