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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: SC]
#468894
01/30/08 05:19 PM
01/30/08 05:19 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 64 Pittsburgh, PA
HamptonHitMan
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...Seriously, though, he was supposed to have flipped just line Frankie 5 Angels. For that reason, I'm glad Castellano didn't appear in Part II (and they needed to make up the character of Pentangeli). Was there evidence of this in GFII? I never thought that. I always figured Clemenza died (heart attack?) and that Pentangeli moved into his position in New York. I must of missed something because I haven't watched GFII as much as GFI.
Salute! Rick
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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: HamptonHitMan]
#468897
01/30/08 05:42 PM
01/30/08 05:42 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
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...Seriously, though, he was supposed to have flipped just line Frankie 5 Angels. For that reason, I'm glad Castellano didn't appear in Part II (and they needed to make up the character of Pentangeli). Was there evidence of this in GFII? I never thought that. I always figured Clemenza died (heart attack?) and that Pentangeli moved into his position in New York. I must of missed something because I haven't watched GFII as much as GFI. You are right about what happening to Clemenza and Pentangeli on-screen in GFII. There's no reference to Clemenza as a traitor, and Frankie was his successor. However, the posters above are referring to FFC's original plan for Clemenza in GFII. Richard Castellano (the actor who portrayed Clemenza) and FFC could not come to terms for him to appear in the sequel. So Clemenza was killed off and the character of Pentangeli created to replace him. What SC is saying is that the plot line originally mapped out for Clemenza was substantially the same as that eventually developed for Pentangeli.
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: The Last Woltz]
#469138
01/31/08 01:37 PM
01/31/08 01:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 64 Pittsburgh, PA
HamptonHitMan
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You are right about what happening to Clemenza and Pentangeli on-screen in GFII. There's no reference to Clemenza as a traitor, and Frankie was his successor.
However, the posters above are referring to FFC's original plan for Clemenza in GFII. Richard Castellano (the actor who portrayed Clemenza) and FFC could not come to terms for him to appear in the sequel. So Clemenza was killed off and the character of Pentangeli created to replace him.
What SC is saying is that the plot line originally mapped out for Clemenza was substantially the same as that eventually developed for Pentangeli.
Oh OK, now I understand. That is great information on what might have been. I'm glad though it didn't work out that way. I would have been disappointed if Clemenza would have turned. Since Pentagali was a new charactor, I was not let down by him "flipping". I did like though that he did the right thing in the end.
Salute! Rick
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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: HamptonHitMan]
#469145
01/31/08 02:27 PM
01/31/08 02:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 55 New York
TahoeShooter
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Oh OK, now I understand. That is great information on what might have been. I'm glad though it didn't work out that way. I would have been disappointed if Clemenza would have turned. Since Pentagali was a new charactor, I was not let down by him "flipping". I did like though that he did the right thing in the end.
Why so much disappointment if Clemenza turned? Tessio turned. Was Clemenza more loved or feared?
Last edited by TahoeShooter; 01/31/08 08:33 PM.
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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: TahoeShooter]
#469176
01/31/08 04:59 PM
01/31/08 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 64 Pittsburgh, PA
HamptonHitMan
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Why so much disappointment if Clemenza turned? Tessio turned. Was Clemenza more loved or feared? I wouldn't say Tessio "flipped". He tried to pursue other interests with and for another family. "Flipped" to me means becoming a government informant. I did like Clemenza more than Tessio though. Clemenza reminds me of my dad. Big, funny, good natured....but, would kill you in a heartbeat
Salute! Rick
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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: dontommasino]
#469191
01/31/08 06:20 PM
01/31/08 06:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
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As much as we all would have disliked to see Clemenza "flip," I nevertheless see it as an important part of the trilogy. Very true. I would have hated to see Clemenza turn against the Family. He was a lovable character and the romaticized view that Part I gave of gangsters was embodied in the character of Clemenza. He was loyal, he brought Mike gifts when Mike was growing up, etc. To see him "flip" would have only emphasized the (real) dark side of these characters as portrayed in Part II. The "honor amongst thieves" view in Part I was replaced by the more realistic portrayal of them being "businessmen" (in Part II) and fuck anybody who got in their way. I hate to think of likable Clemenza that way.
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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: HamptonHitMan]
#469217
01/31/08 08:35 PM
01/31/08 08:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 55 New York
TahoeShooter
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Why so much disappointment if Clemenza turned? Tessio turned. Was Clemenza more loved or feared? I wouldn't say Tessio "flipped". He tried to pursue other interests with and for another family. "Flipped" to me means becoming a government informant. I did like Clemenza more than Tessio though. Clemenza reminds me of my dad. Big, funny, good natured....but, would kill you in a heartbeat True. But either way... it was going against the family and killing Mike or atleast incarcerating him.
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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: olivant]
#469284
02/01/08 06:10 PM
02/01/08 06:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718 Berlin, Germany
Danito
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To me it would have been distasteful. I'm not so sure. FFC knew so many tricks. Let's say, Brando had decided to play young Vito. And now we'd be here discussing what would have happened if De Niro had played the role. I guess, that most of us would consider just the idea of it distasteful. Or if FFC had decided that Fredo would not be killed. The same here: We don't know how FFC would have written the story with Clemenza. One thing is sure: He knew how to surprise us. I believe, the party scene ould have been different. Clemenza would not be as drunk as Pentangeli. He would try to talk reasonably to Michael. Perhaps there would have been some parallels between young and old Clemenza. Well, we never know :-(
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Re: What was Clemenza's role in II supposed to be?
[Re: Don Cardi]
#469725
02/04/08 08:25 AM
02/04/08 08:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
EnzoBaker
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Why so much disappointment if Clemenza turned? Tessio turned.
It was the smart move. Tessio was always smarter. That discussion at Vito's funeral shows that the possibility of Clemenza turning HAD already crossed Michael's mind. As well as the scene in the Corleone family den where Clemenza indirectly rebels against Michael's decisions, and Vito has to calm them down, get them back in line. The seeds of Clemenza betraying the Corleone Family were planted in GF I.
"You did good."
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