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Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIA [Re: AppleOnYa] #400535
06/11/07 12:36 PM
06/11/07 12:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
I
Ice Offline
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 Originally Posted By: AppleOnYa


In addition, of course...to the several others (Emperor's New Clothes) who seem overly fond of the word 'brilliant'.



Apple


Anyone who doesn't find The Sopranos to be brilliant should probably(imho) proceed in finding something to talk about that they DO find brilliant. Last night was a big night for some.

~CYA later Honey.

Last edited by Ice; 06/11/07 12:40 PM.


Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: The Italian Stallionette] #400547
06/11/07 12:53 PM
06/11/07 12:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,725
ATL
Omar Suarez Offline
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The more I think about it, the more depressing the ending was. It's as if Chase was mirroring Livia's words, "It's all a big nothing".

These characters have developed so much in the past 8 years of the show, just to be cut off like that. But there never really is closure for anything in life, so I guess that's what Chase was trying to convey. Still sad though.


How am I not myself?
Re: Made In America- Final Episode POSSIBLE SPOILERS [Re: SC] #400550
06/11/07 01:06 PM
06/11/07 01:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SC
 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
 Originally Posted By: SC
 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy

The only thing I had any problem at all with was Melfi's dismissal. The character AND Lorraine bracco deserved better.


No way.... she dropped a patient (Tony) because of her ego... she's a [BadWord].


That's what I meant SC. I don't think her character was given any justice by dropping Tony.


AND

 Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe

I agree with Pizzaboy. I think that Melfi and Tony were too important to the show and to one another, that her actions were too out of character, and that I believe that it was a cheap thing to do. As PB said, both Melfi and Bracco deserved better.


Buffalo bagels!!

Who is Melfi?? God?? She's not capable of being lesser than what she SHOULD be??? Its not possible that she's as frail and as human as the show's other characters?? Why?? Because she's a doctor??

Yeah, it was out of character for her to "turn" on Tony, but her ego got the better of her and she fucked up. EVERY other main character on the show had some issues and she just lasted longer (at being an OK gal) than the others. MAYBE some of Tony rubbed off on her.... but I wouldn't say she deserved better (and certainly wouldn't say that Lorraine Bracco did either).


Do you have a problem with women SC?


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Omar Suarez] #400552
06/11/07 01:07 PM
06/11/07 01:07 PM
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R
Ryno_Smith Offline
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I find it funny how people say Chase doesn't care about disgruntled fans. Do you realize ratings are a big part of this guys job especially for future shows and how well he does. I listened to only two people on the media talk about this today and both were upset and also said if their is a movie they wouldn't touch it. One worked in NY and said they probaably wouldn't be a movie.

Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Ryno_Smith] #400555
06/11/07 01:16 PM
06/11/07 01:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,046
Miami, FL
Don Andrew Offline
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Don Andrew  Offline
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That's complete bull. If there's a movie everyone will run to watch it, so they should really stop with the bullcrap.

I hope there's not a movie or anything. This was a fitting ending and Chase doesn't need to back down because of disgruntled fans. Jimmy Gandolfini for sure probably doesn't want to touch the Sopranos for a while anyway.


Hey, how's it going?
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Don Andrew] #400556
06/11/07 01:18 PM
06/11/07 01:18 PM
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pizzaboy Offline
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I just think that letting everyone make their own interpretation was a very generous way for Chase to end it.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: pizzaboy] #400557
06/11/07 01:21 PM
06/11/07 01:21 PM
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The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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I just thought of something.

A few episodes back, when Bobby and Tony are sitting in the boat talking about killing and death. Doesn't Tony say something like "When you die everything goes black?"



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Don Cardi] #400558
06/11/07 01:22 PM
06/11/07 01:22 PM
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pizzaboy Offline
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Yup, big time foreshadowing.

Just like Livia's it's a big nothing.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: pizzaboy] #400559
06/11/07 01:26 PM
06/11/07 01:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,046
Miami, FL
Don Andrew Offline
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Steven Van Zandt was on the local classic rock station, and he said to check out the credits.

Nicky Leotardo was sitting at the counter. There you go people.


Hey, how's it going?
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Don Andrew] #400566
06/11/07 01:48 PM
06/11/07 01:48 PM
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fathersson Offline
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Taken from another forum re: last night's episode -

"

Tony DID get whacked. The only question is by who. Remember first Tony's comments earlier this season about getting whacked (which were also replayed either last week or the week before). Tony said something to the effect of "you don't see it coming, you don't feel nothing, everything just fades to black". That was your ending.

As for the who, take note of the credits for the folks in the restaurant at the end. The guy at the counter that goes to the bathroom is Nikki Leotardo, phil's nephew. The black men are the same ones that shot Tony in season two, but only clipped his ear. Oddly, the boyscouts were in the store last week when Bobby got it, so they are going to have some issues, but my money says it wasn't the boy scouts.

My money says that based on the title, "Made in America", it was the trucker with the hat that read "USA". The same trucker who was the brother of the trucker that Christopher robbed and killed in season two...he was the guy that had to identify the body. It's all in the credits.
"


ONLY gun owners have the POWER to PROTECT and PRESERVE our FREEDOM.
"...it is their (the people's) right and duty to be at all times armed" - Thomas Jefferson, June 5, 1824

Everyone should read. "HOW TO KILL A MOCKING BIRD"

CAUTION: This Post has not been approved by Don Cardi.

You really don't expect people to believe your shit do you?

Read: "The Daily Apple"- Telling America and the Gangster BB like it really is!
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: fathersson] #400570
06/11/07 01:53 PM
06/11/07 01:53 PM
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pizzaboy Offline
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I'll have to watch it again fatherson, but if you're right, you're one sharp cookie.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Don Andrew] #400576
06/11/07 02:14 PM
06/11/07 02:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,285
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff Offline
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Here's what director Kevin Smith had to say in his blog:
 Quote:

Woke up this morning, got yourself a gun (SPOILERS)

So "The Sopranos" came to a close. I will miss it. Even their worst episodes were better than most TV ever aspires to.

However, the great debate seems to be whether Tony was killed or not. Some are theorizing that, since the show is (primarily) told from Tony's point of view, when his point of view ended (gun shot to the back of the head), the show ended - the last thing he saw being his daughter walking through the diner door.

Problem with that theory is that the last shot wasn't Tony's POV. The last shot was of Tony himself - no gun creeping into his coverage (a'la Phil at his SUV window). Were it meant to be his POV, and we're meant to think he's been capped, the last image before the hard cut to black would be of Meadow - maybe even Meadow reacting to something we can't see... because that would be the last thing Tony saw. So, for me, Tony's still alive. The show simply ended. Granted, there's room for interpretation; that's just mine.

Some folks have raved about and raged against the ambiguity with which such an engrossing piece of televised art closed. Look, I'm all for ambiguity, but it feels like they did exactly what everyone was expecting: to not go out with a bang. At all. And I respect that. But let's be honest: layering in all those inserts of people at the diner (suspicious or otherwise) was kind of like heavy petting that ends abruptly: you think you're gonna get to nut hard, and suddenly, her parents walk in; or worse, she loses interest. I'm not looking for absolute disclosure to their closure, but call me traditional: if you're not gonna do something dramatic (like kill off Tony) it just would've been nice to, I don't know... let Meadow sit down and do a pull back on the family (not the Family).

Still, I have always, and will always, love that show. And I'm not bitching about the ending (though, if I had any hardcore complaint it was that there was no shout-out to the ducks that kicked off this nearly decade-long love affair) because they provided one really beautiful moment that I feel summed up the entire series quite nicely: Tony visiting Uncle Junior.

"You and my Dad," Tony said. "You two ran North Jersey."
"We did?"
"Yeah."
"Hm." Beat. "That's nice."

I thought that brief exchange really captured the futility of not just This Thing of Ours, but ambition and accomplisment in general: you struggle and toil and put shit together from scratch, and it all seems so epic and important in the moment, and you make sacrifices, and there are casualties along the way... and ultimately, if you're lucky, you wind up in a wheelchair, unable to remember most of what you've done.

Fuck the haters: that show's still the best thing to come out of Jersey since Bruce and Jon Bon.



I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! tongue lol

Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin

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Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: J Geoff] #400578
06/11/07 02:19 PM
06/11/07 02:19 PM
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pizzaboy Offline
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He forgot you, Geoff.

Doesn't he know that you came out of Jersey?


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: J Geoff] #400583
06/11/07 02:21 PM
06/11/07 02:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,285
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff Offline
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Nicky Leotardo sitting at the counter? Interesting. He was definitely suspicious (the only one, IMHO), but the credits simply say "Man in Diner" (Jimmy Spadola) and "Man in Members Only Jacket" (Paolo Colandrea) -- neither actors have IMDb entries, nor necessarily point to Phil's family (that I can tell, altho the resemblance is striking)... I don't even see a Nicky (or Nikki) Leotardo in IMDB...

If what FS posted is true, wouldn't it be just a little weird that ALL those characters ended up in a diner at the same time?



I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! tongue lol

Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin

My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: pizzaboy] #400586
06/11/07 02:23 PM
06/11/07 02:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,155
Some anonymous motel room.
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Some anonymous motel room.
The shirt Tony wears in the diner in the final scene looks like the shirt he wore in The Sopranos pilot episode. As well as the shirt he wore when he was shot by Junior.

While raking the leaves, Tony hears the sounds of the family of ducks flying overhead. The ducks were the catalyst for Tony's anxiety attack in the first episode.


Proud Member of the Gangster BB Bratpack - Fighting Elitism and Ignorance Since 2006
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: J Geoff] #400587
06/11/07 02:24 PM
06/11/07 02:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,046
Miami, FL
Don Andrew Offline
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Well, Steven Van Zandt said to check out the credits...who knows though.


Hey, how's it going?
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: J Geoff] #400588
06/11/07 02:25 PM
06/11/07 02:25 PM
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pizzaboy Offline
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If that's all true then Chase really is brilliant. It gives us that much more to think about.

Off topic - Whatever happened to Frank Pellegrino's character? Maybe he took back Chase's table at Rao's.

I guess when they decided to base Harris on Lin DeVecchio, they decided that one FBI character was enough.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Don Vercetti] #400591
06/11/07 02:28 PM
06/11/07 02:28 PM
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Beth E Offline
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"Fuck the haters: that show's still the best thing to come out of Jersey since Bruce and Jon Bon."

I like Kevin Smith. \:\)


How about a little less questions and a lot more shut the hell up - Brian Griffin

When there's a will...put me in it.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIA [Re: Beth E] #400592
06/11/07 02:31 PM
06/11/07 02:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
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New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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New York
JG, I just read that Paolo Colandrea owns a pizza place in, I believe it was Philly. A talent agent or casting agent was in the place and saw his photo, and thought he looked the part. He was paid $3,000 for his appearance. I'll try to find the article and post a link.

Edited to Add: For olivant, I've read that the cat was supposed to be Ade reincarnated, given its obsession with Christopher's photo.

Last edited by Sicilian Babe; 06/11/07 02:33 PM.

President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Omar Suarez] #400593
06/11/07 02:33 PM
06/11/07 02:33 PM
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Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Omar Suarez
The more I think about it, the more depressing the ending was. It's as if Chase was mirroring Livia's words, "It's all a big nothing".

These characters have developed so much in the past 8 years of the show, just to be cut off like that. But there never really is closure for anything in life, so I guess that's what Chase was trying to convey. Still sad though.


What kind of closure did you want to see? Did you want to see Tony get two in the back of the head? Did you want to see Carmela or Meadow get gunned down? AJ killed?

People keep talking about closure. You were given closure with Tony and Uncle Junior (which btw I thought was such a moving scene). There was closure in a sense. The family was together. In the end they were once again out there being like the average American family that was Made In America.

It was a show about family.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Beth E] #400594
06/11/07 02:33 PM
06/11/07 02:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
I watched it in disbelief, and watched it again at 4:00 a.m.
It is a brilliant ending. We saw a slice of Tony Soprano's life...we never saw what went before and maybe (unless there's a sequel or a movie) we will never know what happens to Tony.
For sure it will keep us talking about him.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIA [Re: Sicilian Babe] #400595
06/11/07 02:34 PM
06/11/07 02:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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Don Cardi  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe


I've read that the cat was supposed to be Ade reincarnated, given its obsession with Christopher's photo.


Oh, I'm not even going to touch that one!



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: J Geoff] #400597
06/11/07 02:35 PM
06/11/07 02:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,285
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff Offline
The Don
J Geoff  Offline
The Don

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,285
New Jersey, USA

Jukebox Songs: Very Interesting

First page:
 Code:
----------------------
Somewhere in The Night           <<
    (Sawyer Brown)
My Baby Drives a Buick
----------------------
Those Were the Days              <<
    (Mary Hopkin)
Turn, Turn, Turn
-----------------------
Only the Strong Survive          <<
    (Jerry Butler)
Just Because I Really Love You
-----------------------
Victim of Love                   <<
    (Bryan Adams)
Into the Fire                    <<
-----------------------

Second Page:
 Code:
-----------------------
I've Gotta Be Me
    (Tony Bennett)
A Lonely Place                   <<
-----------------------
This Magic Moment                <<
    (Jay & The Americans)
Since I Don't Have You           <<
-----------------------
Crystal Blue Persuasion
    (Tommy James)
I'm Alive                        <<<<< 
-----------------------

First Closeup:
 Code:
-----------------------
Somewhere in The Night
    (Sawyer Brown)              (again)
My Baby Drives a Buick
-----------------------
Who Will You Run To
    (Heart)
Magic Man (Live)                 <<<<< "Live"
-----------------------

Then:
 Code:
-----------------------
Don't Stop Believing             <<
    (Journey)
Any Way You Want It              <<<<<
-----------------------
I've Gotta Be Me
    (Tony Bennett)               (again)
A Lonely Place                   <<
-----------------------


Journey's "Any Way You Want It" strikes me as being just as important as "Don't Stop Believing" to describe the series finale. And while there are some song titles of doom and gloom, I can't not notice "I'm Alive" and the Live version of "Magic Man"... ;\)



I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! tongue lol

Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin

My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Don Cardi] #400598
06/11/07 02:38 PM
06/11/07 02:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi
 Originally Posted By: Omar Suarez
The more I think about it, the more depressing the ending was. It's as if Chase was mirroring Livia's words, "It's all a big nothing".

These characters have developed so much in the past 8 years of the show, just to be cut off like that. But there never really is closure for anything in life, so I guess that's what Chase was trying to convey. Still sad though.


It was a show about family.


Just like The Waltons.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: pizzaboy] #400599
06/11/07 02:40 PM
06/11/07 02:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: pizzaboy

 Originally Posted By: Don Cardi

It was a show about family.


Just like The Waltons.


They're both part of the same hypocrisy!



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: pizzaboy] #400600
06/11/07 02:41 PM
06/11/07 02:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,285
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff Offline
The Don
J Geoff  Offline
The Don

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,285
New Jersey, USA

Someone just posted this in Kevin Smith's blog:
"And what about the lyric "Workin' hard to get my Phil???"



I studied Italian for 2 semesters. Not once was a "C" pronounced as a "G", and never was a trailing "I" ignored! And I'm from Jersey! tongue lol

Whaddaya want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? --Peter Griffin

My DVDs | Facebook | Godfather Filming Locations
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: J Geoff] #400601
06/11/07 02:42 PM
06/11/07 02:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
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Don Cardi  Offline
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The Ravenite Social Club
 Originally Posted By: J Geoff

Nicky Leotardo sitting at the counter? Interesting. He was definitely suspicious (the only one, IMHO), but the credits simply say "Man in Diner" (Jimmy Spadola) and "Man in Members Only Jacket" (Paolo Colandrea) -- neither actors have IMDb entries, nor necessarily point to Phil's family (that I can tell, altho the resemblance is striking)... I don't even see a Nicky (or Nikki) Leotardo in IMDB...

If what FS posted is true, wouldn't it be just a little weird that ALL those characters ended up in a diner at the same time?


I'm with you on this one Geoff. That's exactly what the credits said.



Don Cardi cool

Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Don Cardi] #400602
06/11/07 02:44 PM
06/11/07 02:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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"John-Boy" Walton.

What a great wiseguy name!

"Jim-Bob was a pimp."


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: Don Andrew] #400603
06/11/07 02:48 PM
06/11/07 02:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
 Originally Posted By: Don Andrew
Steven Van Zandt was on the local classic rock station, and he said to check out the credits.

Nicky Leotardo was sitting at the counter. There you go people.


Did he say that Nicky Leotardo WAS at the counter? Or did he just say to check the credits because Nicky Leotardo is listed in the credits?

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Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Made In America- Final Episode SPOILER MATERIAL [Re: J Geoff] #400604
06/11/07 02:49 PM
06/11/07 02:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,285
New Jersey, USA
J Geoff Offline
The Don
J Geoff  Offline
The Don

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 31,285
New Jersey, USA

Another interesting reply on Smith's blog:
 Quote:

The ending to me symbolized the audience being wacked. Bobby earlier in the season talked about how they think it'll be when you die, he says do you think you hear it? Well, David Chase played off that and killed the audience by making it look like that.

The Sopranos live on, but they lose a family member in the audience.



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