That's pretty good butt monkey, may I call you butt monkey ?

Actually, all of them laughing would kind of mirror Sonny's wake at the end of A BRONX TALE.

"Nobody cares."

I like it.

No, you may not, and thanks.

What a great episode. I for one am the most basic creature living on this planet and all that symbolism and metaphor trash is completely lost on me. If someone isn't dying then I'm not staying awake. All that said, I was completely blown away by how the Sopranos can keep me glued to my TV with only a game of monopoly. Hands down the two best scenes of the day were Bobby and Tony in that boat together discussing their lives and their futures, and Bobby coming home to that song and his daughter running into his arms. Beautiful televesion.

Right before Vito got popped he killed that guy heading back to Jersey. All that pity we had for him went out the window with that murder. Does anyone else think that maybe by making Tony be a complete vindictive ass to Bobby the writers are trying to maybe make a little of the built up pity we've had for him go away?

Tony was offered a deal in season 1 after Junior tried to have him whacked.

I for one don't have any pity for him. Whether it's Tony or Vito Corleone, they are all scum. But, yes, I sensed that we are supposed to feel sympathy for poor Tony who got beat up, and had a mean mother and a psycho of a sister.

True, but those guys are offered deals their whole lives. I doubt any of them accept the first one.

Ya but don't you believe in the power of forgiveness? Don't you think it's possible for someone to be 'redeemed' and have their sins washed away?

I DO think it's possible for a leopard to change it's stripes IF they truly want it. I could go into all of the sociological factors that produce ppl like Tony and Vito Corleone but it doesn't matter. If someone truly wants to change and be forgived I think they should have the right. Tony Soprano certainly seems to fit that bill. I don't think he would have any murderous impulses if he left the life behind. A child molestor(for example) may have their sickness their entire life and thus they should be in some sort of captivity their entire life. But I think that ppl like Tony and Paulie are capable of changing their ways, and Chris is still a young pup who's life could take many, many different directions.

How great was the picture of Bobby and his daughter to a great song overlooking the lake? I'd re-watch the eppy just for that part alone.

Well, if a leopard chnaged its "stripes" like you say, I'd be impressed.

But we are not discussing a human's ability to change. What we are discussing is the possibility of Tony changing. I don't think he will.

What about that same leopard changing it's "spots" instead?

The possibility of Tony changing? You don't think he will? He changes every second of every episode. The man is in a constant state of mental evolution. Every action that he takes(right or wrong)is done with deep thought and retrospect. Time and time again we view the evolution of his character. His NOT throwing Vito to the wolves was a perfect example of the new Tony as opposed to the old homophobic one.

Tony is in a constant state of mental anguish. Every action he takes is taken with angst. He didn't throw Vito to the wolves because he didn't want to give in to Phil.

I think you kinda missed this but that's definitely not the only reason he supported Vito. He and Melfi discuss homosexuality in season 6A, around episode 5 I think. He says its disgusting and that 'pretty soon ppl are gonna be fuc*ing dogs.' But...a few minutes later when she asks him if homosexuality is acceptable he finally lets it out and says what the hell, let bygones be bygones. It's a clear break through moment for him and Melfi asks if his change of heart is b/c of the coma.

I agree with Olivant. When Tony was shot by Junior and went into the coma and went through the dreams and stuff, and then came out of the coma, he seemed as though he had become a changed man. Especially when he was being wheeled out of the hospital and saw the light of day for the first time since being shot. He was made to look as though he had a new appreciation of life because he came so close to dying. Made to look as though he had become a changed man, a more humbled man. And what happened? A few episodes later he became the same old vindictive son of a bitch gangster that he had been before his being shot. He went right back to being the same old Tony. Sure he has his moments here and there where he seems to be a more caring husband, father and friend, but when push comes to shove, he goes right back to being his same old self.

Chase has already showed us that the leopard could NOT change his spots.

Tony will never change totally.

You're right, Tony has kept many of the same spots he had before he went into the coma. Just like w/ marriage fidelity, on one hand he resists the temptation to have sex with the realtor but then later he has oral sex with one of the strippers(the scene before Vito's death). It's like he's trying REALLY hard, but ohhh....he just has to get that bj.

But....we still have 8 episodes to go. Plenty of time for yet another life changing event to finally shake his perspective free of whatever is holding him/it prisoner.

And I don't think any of us can hope to TOTALLY change. Who would want to....but....

Good or bad, we the audience have been shown time and time again that Tony will put honest and genuine thought into every decision he has to make and will retrospect every decision that he does make.....I think this is an ideal condition to produce and promote change in one's self.

Any change like Tony's will not happen over night, he will have many bumps in the road so to speak but it is possible to change over time and through these bumps in the road.

I finally got to see the new epi. Why did Janice go off because she wasn't informed about Bobby's daughter being in the lake?

She wasn't alone her nanny was there and Charm was in the lake right with her.

I think that some of Chase's famous symbolism will come out of that. I think I recall a young Livia telling stories of drowning children in bathtubs or something to that affect. I'm thinking it's something psychological that Chase is gonna go back to. I really think this season we're gonna find out alot more about Tony's and Janice's childhoods and just what a monster that Livia may have been.

Janice is a mean mother! She has huge self-esteem problems. Like so many such people, she tries to fill the gaps in her self-esteem by forcing people to respect her (e.g., killing Ritchie).

It's fitting that at the end we sort of revisit the beginning

If the Sopranos is following the Godfather, Michael was never able to go legit even though he tried and tried believing that if he went with the church all would be forgiven only to be drawn back into family business. Michael in the end died like a dog alone. Tony might wind up alone or even dead[I doubt that for chase would want an opening to do a possible movie].

Hey, read my finale episode story line.

And he died alone with a dog.

http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-sopran...-news-headlines

Looks like the ratings weren't good for the premiere.

Don't recall the exact dialogue, but before the kid was in the lake, didn't they tell a story about someone that they know who's kid drowned?

You're half correct Don Cardi! Tony insisted that Carm tell Bobby and Janice the story of a toddler falling into a pool unnoticed, and the toddler is now paralyzed. I'm guessing that was went through Janice's mind.

I've been watching the reruns on A&E. I can't count the number of things said, things done, or things thought that could be the basis for a season finale. For example, I saw the scene where Patsy(?) goes to Tony's house and is about to shoot him because he considers him responsible for his brothers death. Madonne!

Then he decides to take a piss in the pool!

man i say like this phil gonna whack the dude that killed gerry and gonna get back at tony for not letting him take care of tony b. chris will probably betray tony and will find out why during later in the series

You mean Doc Santoro? Yeah, he's a dead man walking right now after killing Gerry Torciano.

He kicked Tony's ass... its true... BUT... he had an advantage... he sucker punched him(had the drop) Tony started from a disadvantage. Keep in mind that Bobby sobered up in a way(through his anger) while Tony was drunk and happy making fun of Janice.

A suckerpunch is a suckerpunch.