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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3559
05/29/03 08:00 PM
05/29/03 08:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 173 Malmoe, Scania / Perugia, Ital...
Don Larzono
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 173
Malmoe, Scania / Perugia, Ital...
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It did happen. Clemenza formed his own family, witch was later controlled by Pentangeli. Although the family "still had the name of Corleone". The reason why Tessio didn't form a family of his own, is that he sold out, and died.
The Corleones wouldn't be without men. Remember, that Hagen asks Mike why "Rocco Lampone is forming a secret regime"
Pro Scania et Libertum
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3560
05/29/03 08:20 PM
05/29/03 08:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,528 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,528
AZ
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Mick, bear in mind that, even before the Don died, Michael was making plans to move the family to Nevada, where they could be "legitimate." And, ever since he returned from Sicily, Michael had been planning his revenge on the other NYC families. So, it's not so difficult to imagine that Michael would agree to leaving the NYC "olive oil business" to Clemenza (and Tessio, if he hadn't sold out). He was going to be "legitimate" (or at least what he considered "legitimate"); they'd have to deal with the aftermath of his massacre of the other families. And fight each other, if it came to that. And, as Don Larzono pointed out, he didn't really cut his ties to NYC: he was still pulling the strings there--Pentangeli was subordinate to him.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3562
05/30/03 11:50 AM
05/30/03 11:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by Researcher: What would be the use of denying them to start their own family? They were the Don's friends for years, it would simply be impolite to not let them form their families! That could also lead to them setting Mike up for assassination... In that scene, Mike does say that he doesn't want to give Barzini an 'excuse to start fighting'. Allowing Tessio & Clemenza to break off and recruit men before the move to Nevada might do just that. Mike also says that "There are things being negotiated now that are gonna solve all your problems and answer all your questions. That's all I can tell you now..." In my opinion, both Michael and Vito KNEW that one of these men would eventually end up turning on the Corleones. They had to drop the bait, then wait to see who would take it. Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3565
05/30/03 04:38 PM
05/30/03 04:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 206 That apartment with the broken...
Fanucci's Revenge
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 206
That apartment with the broken...
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Originally posted by Researcher: What would be the use of denying them to start their own family? They were the Don's friends for years, it would simply be impolite to not let them form their families! Researcher, let me tell you what it was all about: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Mike & Vito weren't concerned about manners, they were concerned about dollars and cents. At the time it wasn't in the best interest (read: financial best interest) of the family, so Mike refused. Period.
"Meet my nephew! How's business?"
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3572
05/06/04 05:59 AM
05/06/04 05:59 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
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The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
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maybe they are subsidery families under the Corleone banner
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3573
05/06/04 10:45 AM
05/06/04 10:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 513
juventus
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 513
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Micheal kills all the heads of the other 4 families. So Micheal should be capo di tutti capi (boss of all bosses). If he was a capo di tutti capi he could do the same thing Maranzano did. Micheal arranged a meeting. Micheal Corleone began the meeting by explaining how this new organization would run, that he would be the boss with five specific lieutenants below him (setting up the 5-family structure). These lieutenants would be: Peter Clemenza, Fredo Corleone, Sally Tessio, Rocco Lampone and Al Neri.
Is it possible?
'This was just another Bronx tale.'
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3574
05/06/04 11:38 AM
05/06/04 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121 London,UK
kasanova
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 121
London,UK
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Peter Clemenza, Fredo Corleone, Sally Tessio, Rocco Lampone and Al Neri. Fredo would have never been put into a senior position like that within the family.
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3576
05/06/04 05:02 PM
05/06/04 05:02 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
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The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
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According to the corleone crime family graphic, Fredo was an Underboss, more powerful then the caporegimes, although it certainly didnt seem it in the film.
And also Tessio was killed just after the massacre, so it unlikely he would have figured in mikes plans
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3578
05/06/04 08:21 PM
05/06/04 08:21 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
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The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
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The truth is we dont really know what position Fredo, Michael does mention 'Fredo and his men' when talking to HAgen early on, so he does have some sort of power in the family
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3579
05/06/04 09:36 PM
05/06/04 09:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249 Desolation Row
Don Sonny Corleone
Underboss
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Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
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Originally posted by The Hollywood Finochio: The truth is we dont really know what position Fredo, Michael does mention 'Fredo and his men' when talking to HAgen early on, so he does have some sort of power in the family I think Fredo "had men" just to make him feel good. Maybe a few accociates, but I doubt highly if he controlled any wiseguys.Remember in the boathouse-"Send Fredo off to do this,send Fredo off to do that,send Fredo off to run some Mickey Mouse nightclub somewhere,send Fredo off to pick someone up at the airport" The feds thought that because Fredo was the boss's brother, that naturally he was an underboss.
If winners never lose, well, then a loser sure can sing the blues.
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3580
05/07/04 05:20 AM
05/07/04 05:20 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
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The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
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well he ran the mickey mouse nightclub, and i suppose was the boss of everyone there
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3582
05/07/04 09:17 PM
05/07/04 09:17 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
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The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
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Hagen WAS consilgieri according to the graphic, i think Michael considered him an advisor just not on the illegal stuff, he wanted to protect tom (thats boefroe he turned totally evil after Fredo's betrayal)
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3583
05/09/04 08:58 AM
05/09/04 08:58 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 513
juventus
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 513
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Frank Pentangeli was the succesor of Peter Clemenza. And Peter Clemenza (after the shooting of the heads of the other 4 families) had his own family. And Micheal said to Frank Pentangeli: "Your family still has the name Corleone. So run it like a Corleone". That means Frank Pentangeli had a family so he couldn't be a caporegime.
'This was just another Bronx tale.'
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3584
05/09/04 10:19 AM
05/09/04 10:19 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
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The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
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Frank WAS a caporegime under Michael, but it was covered to make it look like his own family seeing as Mike was now in Nevada, thats why Frank changed his story and claimed he had his own family in the senate hearing
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3585
05/09/04 03:59 PM
05/09/04 03:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 513
juventus
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 513
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Micheal said to Pentangeli that Clemenza promissed some things to the Rosato's, but Frankie didn't gave them. But i don't get it..Why would Clemenza give something to the Rosato's. Aren't they caporegimes of another family?
But I still don't get another thing. Had Clemenza ever got his own family?
'This was just another Bronx tale.'
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3586
05/09/04 10:18 PM
05/09/04 10:18 PM
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 775 No where
Boss_of_bosses
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 775
No where
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Originally posted by juventus:
Frank Pentangeli was the succesor of Peter Clemenza. And Peter Clemenza (after the shooting of the heads of the other 4 families) had his own family. And Micheal said to Frank Pentangeli: "Your family still has the name Corleone. So run it like a Corleone". That means Frank Pentangeli had a family so he couldn't be a caporegime.
No. Clemenza still served Mike. Pete was just in charge of the illegal operations of the Corleone Family, while most of the Family was legit in Nevada. And when he said "your Family is still Corleone" he meant that Franky was still one of his henchmen. After Clemenza died, Franky took charge of his regime. Frank Pantangeli is a Caporegime. Even the Crime Family chart said so.
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Re: Peter and Sal breaking off
#3587
05/10/04 07:35 AM
05/10/04 07:35 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552 London
The Hollywood Finochio
The Don
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The Don
Underboss
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 552
London
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all very true, i wouldnt say however that the Nevada operations were totally legit, especially their gaming licences for the casino's
Sonny - Well then, business will have to suffer, all right? And listen, do me a favor, Tom. No more advice on how to patch things up, just help me win, please
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