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Re: "Skimming off the top"
[Re: DonRoberto]
#349474
12/12/06 10:14 PM
12/12/06 10:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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When dealing in cash, one can "skim" off the top. Let's say that a business makes $2000 in cash sales in one day. Now being that there is no written documentation in the form of credit card charges, or written checks, no one really knows exactly how much money was made that day except the person handling those cash sales. So that person can take $500 off the top of the $2000 made, put it in his pocket, and then legally record that he made $1500 in sales transactions that day, hence the term "skim." Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: "Skimming off the top"
[Re: DonRoberto]
#349613
12/13/06 04:36 PM
12/13/06 04:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 92
BadaBing
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Posts: 92
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Here is a scene about skimming that didn't make it to the movie...
INT. TROPICANA HOTEL - CLOSE VIEW - DAY
The money trays are carefully unloaded from the gaming tables, and put on a cart with others.
The cart, preceded and followed by security guards, is then wheeled through the casino, into a private, counting room.
INT. COUNTING ROOM - MED. VIEW - DAY
The guards leave the room; the door is locked after them, leaving only Hagen. Neri and an ACCOUNTANT, a very fat man. The numbered boxes are opened, and cash and checks are spread out on the counting table.
The accountant begins with amazing speed and skill, to count and divide the money.
NERI Fifteen percent skim?
HAGEN Twenty-five this time.
The accountant stops, and looks up to Neri.
NERI It might show.
HAGEN Mike wants it.
Neri nods, and the accountant continues. Neri opens a door, allowing a sandy-haired man, a COURIER, into the room. The cream is placed into his pouch personally by Neri.
NERI We've never sent this much with one courier.
HAGEN (to the courier) Your plans are a little different this time. You skip Miami, and go straight to Geneva. It's to be deposited to this number. (handing him a small envelope) And it's got to be there by Monday morning, no slip-up.
COURIER I think I was 'picked-up' last trip. That hour layover I had at Kennedy. I went over and bought a paper...
Neri has finished putting the 'creamed' money into the pouch.
NERI Those were our people.
COURIER Okay, just thought you should know.
He is just about to close and lock the pouch, when Hagen gestures that he should wait, and adds more stacks of carefully packaged bills into the pouch. Then Neri locks it, and handcuffs it to the courier's arm, looking inquiringly at Hagen.
HAGEN Let them count.
The courier is shown out through a private door, and then the first door is opened. Two accountants come in with the guards, and the trays are opened, and the counting process is begun all over again, this time with the State Tally sheets.
INT. TROPICANA CORRIDOR - MOVING VIEW - DAY
The courier continues on his way; followed by Hagen and Neri.
NERI What's up?
HAGEN No questions.
NERI I got to ask questions, Tom, there's three million dollars cash in that pouch; Mike is gone and I have no word from him.
HAGEN Al, as far as you're concerned, I'm the Don.
NERI How do I know you haven't gone into business for yourself?
This hurts Tom; but he is a reasonable man, and he knows he owes Neri some explanation.
HAGEN You've been through a lot with us so I'm going to give you the truth. Mike knows it was someone within the compound that set him up for that hit. So nobody is to know where he is, not you, not Rocco, not even his brother Fredo. Sorry, Al, I know how you feel about Mike...but he still remembers Tessio.
CHRISTIAN You desecrated a classic film. This is worse than "Godfather III." GIBSON Whoa, whoa, hey, whoa! Let's not say things we can't take back. CHRISTIAN All right, all right, I'm sorry.
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Re: "Skimming off the top"
[Re: DonRoberto]
#349700
12/14/06 12:28 AM
12/14/06 12:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Technically, waitresses are "skimming" when they don't report the full amount of their cash tips at the end of the day. Actually they are not skimming. They are just cheating the IRS out of taxes. The owner may be the one skimming In other words if you and a friend went into a restaurant and the bill came to $100, and you gave the waitress $100, and then she went to the register and handed the owner the $100 and he rang up $80 and put $80 in the register and pocketed the other $20, that's skimming off the top. Beating the IRS by skimming off the top, but still reporting some of the income, not pocketing the whole $100, just a percentage of it. And with the casino skims, keep in mind that while the owners themselves were skimming profits off the top, they are beating the IRS out of a percentage of taxes, and they are hurting the shareholders of the casino because the profits reported are not really as high as they should be because of the skim. When they skim, they are indirectly hurting you and I. Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: "Skimming off the top"
[Re: Don Cardi]
#349786
12/14/06 01:08 PM
12/14/06 01:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,527 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,527
AZ
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When they skim, they are indirectly hurting you and I. Don Cardi Yes. In general, income that isn't reported and taxed creates a shortfall that honest taxpayers like you and I have to make up. Money skimmed from casinos amounts to hundreds of millions each year. The taxes that aren't paid on those profits must be made up by us. Is it fair that some rich gangster gets richer while workin' stiffs like us pay more? Don Roberto, you asked how the IRS can know if money's being skimmed: The IRS has formed a pretty good picture of how much money casinos should be making, based on year-after-year reports and results. They know what the odds are that favor the house, and they keep track of the number of visitors to cities that have casino gambling. If you own a casino in Vegas that has X square feet of gambling space, and that has Y number of slots, tables, etc., then the IRS will have a reasonably accurate idea that you made Z dollars in profits. Of course there's variation in your profits. But if you weren't too greedy in your skim, you'd probably get away with it. But that's a big "if." Greed by definition is an emotional, not a rational, process. Even if you knew that you could get away with, say, skimming 10 percent of your profits, you'd be sorely tempted to skim more. And that's where you'd get tripped up. Any law enforcement official who's being candid will tell you that crooks are tripped up by their own greed and stupidity, not by ace detective work.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: "Skimming off the top"
[Re: DonRoberto]
#350243
12/16/06 03:15 AM
12/16/06 03:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 92
BadaBing
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 92
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Skimming also enabled the mafia to control casinos without any trace of ownership. The only connection was bags of cash being smuggled out.
From the Senate hearing...
QUESTADT
Is it true that you have a controlling interest in three of the major hotels in Las Vegas.
MICHAEL
No it is not true -- I own stock in some of the hotels there -- but very little.
and from Johnny Ola
JOHNNY OLA
He appreciates your concern, MICHAEL -- and your respect. The casino you're interested in -- the registered owners are Jacob Lawrence, Allen Barclay - they're both Beverly Hills Attorneys. The real owners are the old Lakeville Road group from Cleveland, and our friend in Miami. Meyer Klingman runs the store -- he runs a piece of it, too -- he does alright. But I've been instructed to tell you that if you move Klingman out, our friend in Miami will go along.
CHRISTIAN You desecrated a classic film. This is worse than "Godfather III." GIBSON Whoa, whoa, hey, whoa! Let's not say things we can't take back. CHRISTIAN All right, all right, I'm sorry.
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Re: "Skimming off the top"
[Re: BadaBing]
#350391
12/16/06 09:58 PM
12/16/06 09:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,527 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,527
AZ
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Skimming also enabled the mafia to control casinos without any trace of ownership. The only connection was bags of cash being smuggled out.
Skimming per se is a substitute for ownership and control: Prior to 1958, regulation of gambling in Nevada fell under the Tax Commission. Oversight was lax: Nevada politicians didn't care if gangsters were building casinos--they welcomed them because all they cared about was that the gangsters were bringing money and tax revenues into the state. Most mobsters preferred to hide their ownership through front men (as in the GFII dialog you quoted) because they wanted to protect their assets from the Internal Revenue Service and the FBI. After the televised Kefauver hearings (1950-51) and McClellan hearings (1957-58) exposed Mob ownership of casinos to a nationwide audience, the Nevada Legislature was forced to clean up gambling's image. In 1958, they took control out of the Tax Commission and put it into the new Gaming Commission. They gave the Gaming Commission two big teeth: the power to license "key employees" of hotels; and the "Black Book," a list of people who could be barred from even entering a casino, much less owning or operating one (that's the rule Nicky and Ace ran afoul of in the movie "Casino"). In effect, the "Black Book" drove Mob involvment underground. They were able to milk casinos by diffusing their ownership interests through investments (like the loan from the Teamsters Central States Pension Fund that was detailed in "Casino") or threats. The end-product wasn't ownership or even control--it was access to the "skim." While the skim was profitable, it proved to be a poor substitute for actual ownership and control, which they had prior to '58. Ironically, the "Black Book" worked in some ways like Prohibition did for booze--it helped create violence. Casino gaming in Nevada was relatively peaceful when the Mob operated more or less out in the open because they all knew what the others were doing, reducing jealousy and suspicion that are so often the causes of murder and mayhem. They had an incentive to keep things peaceful, the better not to scare away business. Driven to secrecy, mobsters fought each other far more frequently. Vegas declined. That set the stage for Howard Hughes and his buying spree. His imprimateur, in turn, made gaming respectable for big corporations and hotel chains. Today's mob involvement in legalized gaming is a fraction of what it once was.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: "Skimming off the top"
[Re: Turnbull]
#350392
12/16/06 10:01 PM
12/16/06 10:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,527 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,527
AZ
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Skimming also enabled the mafia to control casinos without any trace of ownership. The only connection was bags of cash being smuggled out.
Skimming per se is a substitute for ownership and control: Prior to 1958, regulation of gambling in Nevada fell under the Tax Commission. Oversight was lax: Nevada politicians didn't care if gangsters were building casinos--they welcomed them because all they cared about was that the gangsters were bringing money and tax revenues into the state. Though their ownership and control of casinos was legal under Nevada regulation, most mobsters preferred to hide their ownership through front men (as in the GFII dialog you quoted) because they wanted to protect their assets from the Internal Revenue Service and the FBI. After the televised Kefauver hearings (1950-51) and McClellan hearings (1957-58) exposed Mob ownership of casinos to a nationwide audience, the Nevada Legislature was forced to clean up gambling's image. In 1958, they took control out of the Tax Commission and put it into the new Gaming Commission. They gave the Gaming Commission two big teeth: the power to license "key employees" of hotels; and the "Black Book," a list of people who could be barred from even entering a casino, much less owning or operating one (that's the rule Nicky and Ace ran afoul of in the movie "Casino"). In effect, the "Black Book" drove Mob involvment underground. They were able to milk casinos through investments (like the loan from the Teamsters Central States Pension Fund that was detailed in "Casino") or threats, or violence. The end-product wasn't ownership or even control--it was access to the "skim." While the skim was profitable, it proved to be a poor substitute for actual ownership and control, which they had prior to '58. Ironically, the "Black Book" worked in some ways like Prohibition did for booze--it helped create violence. Casino gaming in Nevada was relatively peaceful when the Mob operated more or less out in the open because they all knew what the others were doing, reducing jealousy and suspicion that are so often the causes of murder and mayhem. They had an incentive to keep things peaceful, the better not to scare away business. Driven to secrecy, mobsters fought each other far more frequently. Vegas declined. That set the stage for Howard Hughes and his buying spree. His imprimateur, in turn, made gaming respectable for big corporations and hotel chains. Today's mob involvement in legalized gaming is a fraction of what it once was.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: "Skimming off the top"
[Re: DonRoberto]
#350450
12/17/06 10:09 AM
12/17/06 10:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
Ice
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,474
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I have always been unclear as to why Moe ASKS if Mike thinks he is skimming off the top. Mike says to Moe 'your casino loses money, maybe we can do better.' to which Moe replies w/ a question 'you think i'm skimming off the top, Mike?....' Why does he ask Mike this question if skimming is such a common practice? (Of course Mike's response of 'your unlucky' to the career gambler Moe is one of the funnier moments of the entire trilogy , although Moe did not find it too funny. )
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