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Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30555
07/08/05 01:29 PM
07/08/05 01:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Props to Apple who inspired this thread in response to my PM.
I understand this subject has been visited before, and I also understand that there is some sense that Tom Brought Luca Brasi along "just in case."
Actually I don't think it would have been Luca for a couple of reasons. First off, I think Luca probably left the wedding right after he and the Don had their little talk. Second, Tom would have had to get a late afternoon or early evening flight out to LA (or at least to some destination in the west) immediately. Luca in the 1940's does not stike me as the kind of guy who would enjoy flying, and I am not too sure that Tom would want him as a seat mate on a coast to coast ride on a DC 3. Third, Luca would be way too conspicuous flying on a plane with Tom (who after all wasn't on the muscle end of the family).
My guesses would be:
1) Someone in the labor union that the Corleones controlled in LA (remember Tom told Woltz that hey was going to have labor troubles).
2) An insider at Woltz' house...maybe the guy who showed them the horse.
3) The star who was moving from marijuana to heroin. Tom would have told the star that he knew a guy in New york named Sollozzo who could supply him for life, and that the Corleones would pay for it if only he would do the family a "small service."
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30558
07/08/05 02:55 PM
07/08/05 02:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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According to the book, Hagen returned from California late Tuesday evening and told Don C. the results of his meeting with Woltz. Then, on Wednesday, Vito gave Hagen his instructions.
Puzo writes that "the instructions consumed the rest of Hagen's working day....."
From that, I don't think that there is much that we can assume, other than the fact that even if Luca was along on the trip with Tom, and I also tend to think that he wasn't, nothing was done for at least a few days (assuming that Connie's wedding took place on the prior Saturday or Sunday).
The instructions that Tom carried out could have been anything.
Remember that, as Puzo again wrote, it was wartime and transcontinental flights were not so readily available to civilians, so Tom possibly spent the day making Luca's travel arrangements.
Or, as has been suggested, setting up the beheading with friends of the Corleones on the coast, either muscle from within the labor union or from another family.
I can't see some heroin-addicted actor doing it, though. This was a job for a professional, and a man of strength. I don't imagine that it's easy to hack a horse's head off.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30560
07/08/05 03:06 PM
07/08/05 03:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by plawrence: ... I don't think that there is much that we can assume, other than the fact that even if Luca was along on the trip with Tom, and I also tend to think that he wasn't, nothing was done for at least a few days (assuming that Connie's wedding took place on the prior Saturday or Sunday)... That's a good point. Because the scene where Woltz wakes up to find the head takes place immediately after Tom leaves the house, it is easy to assume that Khartoum was killed that same night. Probably not though..something of that scale (not just the slaughter but getting the head into the house, upstairs and into the bed) would have to be arranged carefully. This was no simple 'Leave the gun; take the cannoli's' job! Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30565
07/11/05 10:15 AM
07/11/05 10:15 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Actually in one of the versions of the trilogy ( I think its the sequential one) we see that Woltz is doing that young girl starlet, and that Tom has in fact returned from California before the horse is killed. In a conference with Sonny and the Don, Tom contemplates the idea of using the girl as blackmail, but they reject the idea, and then, they obviously come up with a more heady idea.
P.S. In GF 4 we learn that some of Khartoum's sperm was frozen and that he ended up siring a racehorse which won the Kentucky Derby.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30566
07/11/05 10:24 AM
07/11/05 10:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by dontomasso: ... In a conference with Sonny and the Don, Tom contemplates the idea of using the girl as blackmail, but they reject the idea, and then, they obviously come up with a more heady idea... Interesting (sort of)...but it doesn't address your initial inquiry as to exactly WHO killed the horse. Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30568
07/11/05 11:05 AM
07/11/05 11:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,453 California
XDCX
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,453
California
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Michael killed the horse. It was the beginning of Michaels descent into darkness and ruthlessness. Or at least that's what he wanted it to be. Mike killed Khartoum, in the hopes that they would consider that as "making his bones." Sonny and Vito just laughed at him, so Mike got mad and left, didn't come back until he found out his father was shot. Even after Mike got punched in the face by McKlusky, he didn't really wanna whack him. Here's my take on how the plot went down: MIKE: I don't wanna kill em, Sonny, I DON'T WANNA! SONNY: Now you listen here, you prissy little college punk! You're gonna go to that restaurant, your gonna stuff that turkey, your gonna roast that pig, and that's that! Then we're gonna ship you off to Sicily where you can get a little bit of culture! It was Mike.
"Growing up my dad was like 'You have a great last name, Galifianakis. Galifianakis...begins with a gal...and ends with a kiss...' I'm like that's great dad, can we get it changed to 'Galifianafuck' please?" -- Zach Galifianakis
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30569
07/11/05 11:24 AM
07/11/05 11:24 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Originally posted by Don Cardi: I say that it HAD to be an inside job. Someone on the inside of Woltz's estate had to be bought off. It's the only way that the job could have been done. Someone close and trusted by Woltz. My bet would be that the stable guy, which I think is named Tony, was the guy who was bought off to kill the horse. I don't think it was Tony who did the actual killing, but he was certainly paid off to look the other way. In the book, Puzo writes The men on night duty claimed they had heard nothing. To Woltz this seemed impossible. They had been bought off and they could be made to tell who had done the buying.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30573
07/12/05 09:04 AM
07/12/05 09:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by henry: Has anyone considered it may have been one of the other horses envious of all the praise heaped on Cartoon by his owner? No, because it's physically impossible for a horse to behead another horse. Because an animal couldn't possibly come up with the idea. Because it was the Corleone Family who needed to relay a message to Mr. Woltz, not a jealous stable horse. Apple ps - I realize henry's post was made in complete fun and I was having fun in response...BUT the spelling of 'Cartoon' has GOT to be either a joke or just about the silliest thing I've ever seen on this Board (many of my own posts excepted)...especially considering the correct spelling of the horse's name is right there in the subject line. Please don't take the above comment personally...as a general rule, I embrace all kinds of people's cultures and opinions.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30577
07/12/05 01:45 PM
07/12/05 01:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Originally posted by AppleOnYa: Originally posted by henry: [b] Has anyone considered it may have been one of the other horses envious of all the praise heaped on Cartoon by his owner? No, because it's physically impossible for a horse to behead another horse.
Because an animal couldn't possibly come up with the idea.
[/b]UNLESS OF COURSE THE NAME OF THE HORSE IS THE FAMOUS MISTER ED!
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30578
07/12/05 01:54 PM
07/12/05 01:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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HOW TRUE, dontom !!! So to find out for sure who beheaded Khartoum... Go right to the source and ask the horse....!!! Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Who Beheaded Khartoum?
#30582
07/15/05 02:53 PM
07/15/05 02:53 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 170 North East England
Joolsie Cappucetti
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 170
North East England
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It was Mama Corleone, in the drawing room with the candlestick.
Senator, we are both part of the same hypocrisy
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