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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160826
06/27/06 11:03 AM
06/27/06 11:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Originally posted by Enzo Scifo: [quote]Originally posted by Don Cardi: [b] And the term "insurgency" makes it sound like these terrorists are minutemen fighting for freedom. So what do you think they are 'fighting' for, then? [/b][/quote]Well if you've read my political posts over the years in regards to the War On Terror, I think that I have been very clear as to what I think the terrorists are fighting for. If you've read my posts over the past few years you would not need to ask a question like that of me. But out of respect for you I will indulge you once again and try to sum it up for you in one paragraph: They're fighting for the extremist belief that all non Muslims are 'infidels' and are 'the great satans' who need to be destroyed. They are not fighting for the freedom of the Iraqi or Afghany people. They are fighting and attacking coalition forces and civilians out of sheer fanatasism and in hopes to just wipe out anything and anyone that does not adhere to their twisted and demented doctorine. They intentionally blow up innocent Iraqi and Afghany people in there fight. And no true freedom fighter intentionally blows up the poeple that he or she claims to be fighting for. And being that you even had to ask me that question, after all that I've continually said here on these boards, I have to believe that you already have a different opinion than mine as to what YOU think they are fighting for. So I ask you two questions ; 1) Do you consider the terrorists who are fighting our coalition forces in Iraq to be freedom fighters / minutemen type soldier? 2) What do you think that they are fighting for? Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160829
06/27/06 12:19 PM
06/27/06 12:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Originally posted by Don Cardi: [So I ask you two questions ;
1) Do you consider the terrorists who are fighting our coalition forces in Iraq to be freedom fighters / minutemen type soldier?
2) What do you think that they are fighting for?
Don Cardi DC with all respect I think your questions oversimplify the situation. There are real insurgents in Iraq. They are Sunnis from the old Baathist regime who are afraid they are going to lose their control of the country to the Shia;;; there are the Shia who have been the majority of the population who think they will get screwed again, and to a lesser extend some kurds who want an independent state. Many of these people do not trust the United States, and they believe we are there to occupy them forever (rightly or wrongly). The Terrorists are another story. It is in their interests to keep the insurgency going. That is why Zarqawi blew up the Shiite mosque....to get the Shiites mad at the Sunnis. The Al quaeda forces in Irag have no interest in building up that country, they want to see it devolve into chaos and force the US out. At this point the US is in a very delicate position because we have to foster some trust among the groups of insurgents and do what we can to keep these people from having a civil war. I will not go into my usual diatribe about the stupidity of this operation, because we are there and we are stuck with it. I think the release of people from Abu Grahib was a good start, and I am encouraged by the offers the Iraqi Government is making about offering an amnesty to insurgents who will lay down their weapons. The only hope in Iraq is that the people there realize it is in thei best interests to put aside tribal differences and rebuild their country into what could be a rich, oil producing place. The Al Quaeda there will do everything in theor power to make sure this does not happen, and slowly those people need to be found out, and executed. If we can get some of these militias to lay down their arms, it might get easier to determine who the minutemen are and who the terrorists are. I suspect there are fewer Al Quaeda there than we think.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160830
06/27/06 12:34 PM
06/27/06 12:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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DonT, I fully understand that there is an insurgency in Iraq that are fighting for exactly what you point out in your post above. However that does not mean that those who may have originally started out as insurgents, afraid of losing their country haven't resorted to 'terrorist' tactics. If some of these people sincerely started out as insurgents who were fighting to keep hold of their country, and eventually began to use terrorist tactics by carrying out suicide bombings in market places along with kidnappings that result in torture and beheadings, does that make it ok because they are NOT a part of AL Qeada? The bottom line is that too many of the anti-war newspapers, newscasters and public figures have thrown this fake covering over our enemies by trying to paint them as freedom fighters. Therefore many people have been tricked into believing that those we are fighting over in Iraq are NOT terrorists just because the Cindy Sheehans, the media in general and those in the public eye have replaced the term terrorist with insurgent. Again, I realize that some are insurgents who are afraid of losing thier country to a foreign occupation, but where I have to disagree with you is when you said that there are more insurgents in Iraq than there are terrorists. I think that it is the other way around. And just to clear this up, I believe that Enzo was talking about terrorists, and that is why I replied what I did to him and asked him what I asked. Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160832
06/27/06 02:02 PM
06/27/06 02:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Originally posted by Don Cardi: Again, I realize that some are insurgents who are afraid of losing thier country to a foreign occupation, but where I have to disagree with you is when you said that there are more insurgents in Iraq than there are terrorists. I think that it is the other way around.
Don Cardi I see your point, but I think it is the influence of people coming from Iran, Syria and God knows where else that is stirring it up tp the point that the insurgents will resort to these tactics. What is scary is that we can draw a parallel between this and the scene in GF II where the rebel blows up the police captain and Michael realizes that "they could win" because the police captain is paid a salary, and the terrorist isnt.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160833
06/27/06 02:54 PM
06/27/06 02:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145 East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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Originally posted by Don Cardi: You use the term "people" in your post and what you do is make it sound and imply that we are just arbitrarily blowing up innocent people. And the term "insurgency" makes it sound like these terrorists are minutemen fighting for freedom. So I'll rephrase your question for you : How many terrorists do we have to blow up that are a part of the extremist jihadist movement who's goal is to destroy all non believers? As many bombs as it takes to eventually wipe these scumbags out or send them back to their caves. Your question is one that really cannot be answered because it goes right back to my earlier assertions that the terrorists are not a part of a government, a military or a nation. So therefore it is almost impossible to estimate how many members are a part of their organization. Don Cardi [/QB] God dammit dude. Did I call them "minute-men" or freedom fighters? Fuck no. Really, be silly politically with others' posts, but I asked you a simple question, and through your post, I assume your answer is.....you don't know. Why couldn't you simply admit honestly, as JESUS would do, that you don't know? I mean not like I would be a bitch against you, because hey, I figure you or somebody might know, but whatever. BTW Don Cardi, look up "insurgency" in the fucking Webster Dictionary, which unless you want to call it a liberial media outlet, is what it is: Main Entry: in·sur·gen·cy Pronunciation: -j&n(t)-sE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -cies 1 : the quality or state of being insurgent; specifically : a condition of revolt against a government that is less than an organized revolution and that is not recognized as belligerency Really, DC, I'm sorry if I write like I'm pissed, but when you warp your posts into assumptions about me, then you've lost me. P.S. - What else should I call them besides "people"? Arabs? Ragheads? Camel Jockeys? Madmen? I could have simply listed them as terrorists or meatbags or water flesh or whatever....besides, can't people be both evil and good?
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160834
06/27/06 06:23 PM
06/27/06 06:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,854 Milky Way
Enzo Scifo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,854
Milky Way
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Originally posted by Don Cardi: But out of respect for you I will indulge you once again and try to sum it up for you in one paragraph: Grazie consigliere. My opinion about the true goals of Jihadi terrorists is the same as yours on some aspects, but in some I disagree with you. I kind of agree with what Capo said: the definition of freedom; which is not something that is totally, a 100% the same in all cultures and countries; is different for you than it is for Arabs in Syria, it's different for me than it's for Bush. Anyways, to give a overall view of what I think I don't have the time these days, I'm busy and typing a text in English that is a bit longer than a one-line post takes some time for me. Maybe I'll give my opinion later... I hope you understand. Originally posted by Don Smitty: so that they could go to the 72 virgins that are waiting for them. Nowhere in the Qur'an is there any mention of the prospect of meeting with 72 virgins in Heaven after committing an act for the holy Jihad. Double-J stated that there actually is something like this in the Qur'an but that it's about 72 raisins. I never read the Qur'an so I don't know what the truth is, but I know for sure no one (not even the craziest ultimate religious Jihadi bastard) would blow himself up just to fuck 72 raisins. :p So I don't think they're fighting for raisins, and also not for virgins.
See, we can act as smart as we want, but at the end of the day, we still follow a guy who fucks himself with kebab skewers.
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160835
06/27/06 07:03 PM
06/27/06 07:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Enzo, I understand what you are trying to say and I understand that you are busy with schoolwork, which needs to come first. But I look forward to what you have to say sometime in the future. As for the mention of 72 virgins, well there is a passage that makes reference to that. I've posted an explaination in the past along with the section of the Quoran that it is in. But like everything else this passage has been twisted by the extremists and made to suit their finatatical beliefs. If I ever find the time, I will locate that passage for you and PM it to you. One thing that I must say about you Enzo. At least you've shown that you can give an intelligent discussion/ debate without having to resort to the same old rhetoric, fingerpointing and whining that two others have done in this thread. I guess that they really cannot present a strong case for why they believe what they believe or stand up for what they represent, so it is easier for them to live in the past and wallow in something that they believe was 'stolen' from them when in truth it really wasn't because the people of my great nation voted in an election and put into office the ONLY man that was right for the job. TWICE! Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160836
06/27/06 07:29 PM
06/27/06 07:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 572
Jimmy Buffer
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 572
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Is there really Koran scholars who believe that the passage is meant to imply 72 raisins? I've seen reference to this on the boards twice now, but I heard the thing about the raisins on a Robin Williams comedy album and thought he just made it up as a joke, judging from the laughter in the audience afterwards. It seems about as believable as many other facets of religion, so I suppose it could be true. Unless of course, someone just happened to hear the same sketch I did and tried to pass off the joke as their own. :rolleyes:
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160837
06/27/06 07:59 PM
06/27/06 07:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Originally posted by plawrence: and he's a bit too dependent upon his religion for guidance than I care to see.
Originally posted by Double-J: This is one thing I've always questioned, since it seems like there is either two choices in a President - an amoral President who goes to the Cathedral in D.C. for show (Clinton), or a President like Bush who expresses his faith and is deemed a zealot.
I'm just wondering - what particular view, if any, makes you think he's "too dependent on his religion," since most of the stances (Gay Marriage, Abortion, Stem Cells) aren't exclusive to religious beliefs or interpretations.
"One nation under God," Double-J Stuff like this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.s html http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3502861 http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586978,00.html I have no objection to the man being religious, but the thing is that "his" God may not be the "right" God or the "real" God, and the things that "his" God are telling him may be incorrect. Also, while the issues you cite - Gay Marriage, Abortion, Stem Cells - may not be exclusively religious issues, I believe that the basis for people's opinions on those issues is grounded in their religious beliefs. And there's a lot of middle ground between being amoral and a religious zealot - you don't have to be one or the other. I personally am not at all religiously inclined, but that certainly does not make me amoral.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160838
06/27/06 08:15 PM
06/27/06 08:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Originally posted by plawrence: ...I just don't think that he's all that intelligent... Originally posted by AppleOnYa: That's where you underestimate him, as have so many liberals. I'm not saying he's not intelligent, like thinking he's stupid. I just don't think he's a man of exceptional intelligence, which I believe is a necessary requirement for a successful presidency. And it's not only liberals - which I am absolutlely not BTW - who believe that. Originally posted by plawrence: ... he's way too self-righteous... Originally posted by AppleOnYa: That's simply 'projection'. Altho I very often disagree with don tommasso, finding him way too radical for my taste, sadly I must agree with him with his comments about how you consistently bring comments about the poster to the discussion, rather than comments about their posts. But at least I can rest assured that although I choose not to engage in a pissing contest with you, I can out-piss you any time I care to. With a few simple maneuvers I can alter the direction, distance, and intensity of my pissing, while you, unfortunately, are fairly limited in those areas to a simple and unimaginative flow in the same direction, with the same limited intensity, and always traveling pretty much the same distance, depending on how low you care to get to be closer to the target. Originally posted by AppleOnYa: It it to your credit though, that you admonish the comparison to Hitler. Welll it's just great to hear that I "admonish" ( ) the comparison to Hitler. Now I can sleep tonight. :rolleyes:
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160840
06/27/06 11:29 PM
06/27/06 11:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
Double-J
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
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The first link, as I understand, is a documentary by two men who are recounting what the President said in a meeting, not necessarily a quote by Bush. But okay, if he said that, sure, that likely seems excessive, especially to the anti-religious lot. The second link puts some of his quotes back into context, and establishes the fact that Bush is a religious man, while putting it into perspective. And the article is probably correct - "That said, to speak frequently and directly about religion in a divided America can itself be divisive. But America is a country in which the place of religion in the public sphere has never been fixed, and probably never will be." When Bush speaks frankly about his religion, its no surprise that many (left leaning) people either purposefully go into hyperbolic wall of separation seizures, or simply dismiss him as a zealot. The third link, again, is a rehash of the first, with someone claiming what Bush said in a meeting. How reliable is that? I don't know. Keep in mind that it is from a Palestinian viewpoint (which is by and large anti-American), as well as being printed by the Guardian, the left-leaning paper of the UK. Originally posted by Enzo Scifo: Nowhere in the Qur'an is there any mention of the prospect of meeting with 72 virgins in Heaven after committing an act for the holy Jihad. Double-J stated that there actually is something like this in the Qur'an but that it's about 72 raisins. I never read the Qur'an so I don't know what the truth is, but I know for sure no one (not even the craziest ultimate religious Jihadi bastard) would blow himself up just to fuck 72 raisins. :p So I don't think they're fighting for raisins, and also not for virgins. This (Guardian, yes those liberals! :p ) article helps to explain the misconception - it seems to be terrorist leaders warping the minds of their followers into believing in some sacred reward for suicide attacks. The raisins I've mentioned actually came from a discussion at my Uni during an international relations seminar, where an Islamic professor mentioned the translations of 72 "raisins" (which isn't necessarily an original idea, many had been saying this since the 72 virgins idea was thrown about) and I've always thought it ironic if these terrorists were "rewarded" with a box of Sunmaid's if upon reaching Allah. Originally posted by Jimmy Buffer: Unless of course, someone just happened to hear the same sketch I did and tried to pass off the joke as their own. :rolleyes: Listen, if you've read any of my posts, you know how I am with regards to citing facts and such. I'm not going to steal his material. Though it is funny, I admit. Originally posted by plawrence: And it's not only liberals - which I am absolutlely not BTW - who believe that.
A bit of self-denial, my friend? "Bombs over Baghdad," Double-J
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160841
06/28/06 05:03 AM
06/28/06 05:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Didn't Bush once make a comment about how he was "doing God's work"?
That statement alone I find rather scary.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160843
06/28/06 09:54 AM
06/28/06 09:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Originally posted by Double-J: Since the issues in question are not exclusively decided by the President's religious beliefs, then the whole idea that he is too dependant on religion for guidance it somewhat moot, as the process to determine policy likely takes into account far more weighted issues or standpoints (ranging from public opinion to international response). I hope you're right about that. But we don't really know for sure exactly what he bases many of his decisions on, do we?
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160844
06/28/06 10:02 AM
06/28/06 10:02 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
Double-J
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
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Originally posted by plawrence: I hope you're right about that.
But we don't really know for sure exactly what he bases many of his decisions on, do we? Do we ever really know for sure what exactly any President bases his decisions on? "Where Does Love Go When It Dies," Double-J
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160847
06/28/06 01:30 PM
06/28/06 01:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Originally posted by Double-J: But we don't really know for sure exactly what he bases many of his decisions on, do we? Do we ever really know for sure what exactly any President bases his decisions on? No, but when a president tells me what he's basing his decision on - a belief that he's doing "God's Work", I'm troubled by it. Suppose we had a president who came out and said that he was basing his decisions on the answers he was getting from a Ouija Board? Or a psychic? There are people who believe in that stuff you know. Bush is perfectly entitled to be as religious as he wants to be, and in the absence of proof tot he contrary I can't argue that there is no God, or if there is the Christian God in which he believes in not the "real" or "right" one, contrary to what other of the world's religions may believe. But just as I can't argue that God does not exist, I don't believe that anyone can successfully make the argument that he does. Which makes religion and a belief in God strictly speculative and a matter of faith. And I would prefer a president who made decisions based on facts, not faith.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160848
06/28/06 01:33 PM
06/28/06 01:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Originally posted by plawrence: Suppose we had a president who came out and said that he was basing his decisions on the answers he was getting from a Ouija Board? Or a psychic?
. I believe many decisions in the Reagan administration were made by a psychic.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160849
06/28/06 01:57 PM
06/28/06 01:57 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 295 Cincinnati, Oh
Don Alessandrio
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 295
Cincinnati, Oh
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While Bush envokes how a president should be; strong, decisive. He lacks the polished personna that a leader of the GREATEST NATION on earth needs. Fact is John Kerry would have crumbled under the stress of being president. I can't belive that jackass even became the democratic canidate.
One thing I do find extremely ass backwards is how the Rebulicans want a less involved Central Government, yet they want to tell us who we can marry, who we can have sex with, what we can do to our own bodies, who is allowed to become an American, and what we can say, listen too, and read.
Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning huh? Fuck you, pay me.
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160850
06/28/06 02:27 PM
06/28/06 02:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Originally posted by dontomasso: I believe many decisions in the Reagan administration were made by a psychic. In fairness to the other side, some decisions in the Clinton administration were made using crystal balls. Oh, wait, they weren't crystal. Never mind.
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160851
06/28/06 02:30 PM
06/28/06 02:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,512 Right here, but I'd rather be ...
long_lost_corleone
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,512
Right here, but I'd rather be ...
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And then there is Dubya... I think he just uses crystals in general.
"Somebody told me when the bomb hits, everybody in a two mile radius will be instantly sublimated, but if you lay face down on the ground for some time, avoiding the residual ripples of heat, you might survive, permanently fucked up and twisted like you're always underwater refracted. But if you do go gas, there's nothing you can do if the air that was once you is mingled and mashed with the kicked up molecules of the enemy's former body. Big-kid-tested, motherf--ker approved."
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160852
06/28/06 02:34 PM
06/28/06 02:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Originally posted by SC: [QUOTE]Originally posted by dontomasso: [qb] .
Oh, wait, they weren't crystal. Never mind. Actually those decisions were not made by balls, but you're close.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
#160855
06/29/06 07:46 AM
06/29/06 07:46 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,185 Detroit, MI
Cancerkitty
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,185
Detroit, MI
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Originally posted by Don Alessandrio: One thing I do find extremely ass backwards is how the Rebulicans want a less involved Central Government, yet they want to tell us who we can marry, who we can have sex with, what we can do to our own bodies, who is allowed to become an American, and what we can say, listen too, and read. An excellent point, vote Libertarian in 2008!
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