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The Barzini Meeting #786891
07/02/14 02:21 PM
07/02/14 02:21 PM
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slumpy Offline OP
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I was watching Godfather I today since it's been a few years. I don't know why I never questioned this, but, how does Vito know that whomever brings Michael the Barzini deal is a traitor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjwc55InkxQ

Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #786895
07/02/14 02:59 PM
07/02/14 02:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
Originally Posted By: slumpy
I was watching Godfather I today since it's been a few years. I don't know why I never questioned this, but, how does Vito know that whomever brings Michael the Barzini deal is a traitor?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjwc55InkxQ


His experience.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #786898
07/02/14 03:18 PM
07/02/14 03:18 PM
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slumpy Offline OP
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slumpy  Offline OP
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ehhh that's a little deus ex machina, don't you think?

Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #786900
07/02/14 03:27 PM
07/02/14 03:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
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waynethegame  Offline
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Originally Posted By: slumpy
ehhh that's a little deus ex machina, don't you think?


Not really IMO. Vito is a mobster, he knows how things work; it also goes back to that "Sicilian Cunning" that is mentioned and which Tom lacks. Also, while it's not touched on in the movie in the novel when he was at war with Maranzano, he won the war due to Maranzano being sold out by one of his own guys. So it can be inferred that he knows from past experience because he pulled that same trick on Maranzano years ago.

Last edited by waynethegame; 07/02/14 03:29 PM.

Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #786901
07/02/14 03:27 PM
07/02/14 03:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 574
Scottsdale
Its_da_Jackeeettttttt Offline
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I think it starts off a bit earlier, when Vito calls the grand meeting to end the Tattaglia war and allow Michael to come home from Sicily (right after Sonny gets killed).

Tom Hagen: When I meet with Tattaglia's men, should I insist all their drug middlemen have clean records?
Don Corleone: Mention it, don't insist. But Barzini will know that without being told.
Tom Hagen: You mean Tattaglia...
Don Corleone: Tattaglia is a pimp. He never could have outfought Santino. But I didn't know until this day that it was Barzini all along.

It was at that meeting that Vito realized Barzini engineered the hit on Sonny by getting Carlo Rizzi to lure out Sonny into the open. That's why he warned Michael about the Barzini deal -- he'd have to flip another Corleone member to kill Michael.

Last edited by Its_da_Jackeeettttttt; 07/02/14 03:31 PM.
Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: Its_da_Jackeeettttttt] #786902
07/02/14 03:31 PM
07/02/14 03:31 PM
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slumpy Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Its_da_Jackeeettttttt
I think it starts off a bit earlier, when Vito calls the grand meeting to end the Tattaglia war and allow Michael to come home from Sicily.

Tom Hagen: When I meet with Tattaglia's men, should I insist all their drug middlemen have clean records?
Don Corleone: Mention it, don't insist. But Barzini will know that without being told.
Tom Hagen: You mean Tattaglia...
Don Corleone: Tattaglia is a pimp. He never could have outfought Santino. But I didn't know until this day that it was Barzini all along.

It was at that meeting that Vito realized Barzini engineered the hit on Sonny by getting Carlo Rizzi to lure out Sonny into the open. That's why he warned Michael about the Barzini deal -- he'd have to flip another Corleone member to kill Michael.


awesome, thanks. Kind of surprised I didn't put it together when I watched it.

Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #786908
07/02/14 05:43 PM
07/02/14 05:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
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AZ
Turnbull Offline
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And if you look closely at that scene, Barzini gives himself away. He, not Vito, sits at the head of the table. He, not Vito, takes the lead in the discussions--and he jumps the gun on Vito by declaring: "Then it is settled. The traffic in drugs is allowed, and Don Corleone will give it protection in the East. And there will be the peace." (He's also the only Don smoking a cigarette--the others are smoking cigars.) I think Vito deliberately let him show his hand.

The only thing that surprises me is why it took Vito so long to figure out that it was Barzini all along. "Tattaglia is a pimp; alone he could never have outfought Santino." Well, Tattaglia was a pimp all along--why didn't Vito see that Barzini, younger than the other Dons and more ambitious, would have the most to gain?


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #786912
07/02/14 05:53 PM
07/02/14 05:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
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slumpy Offline OP
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slumpy  Offline OP
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I guess he wanted proof of it? Vito strikes me as the type of man who wouldn't kill someone on suspicion alone. Maybe he needed to see Barzini exulting in his victory, like you said, to know for sure.

Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #786917
07/02/14 06:54 PM
07/02/14 06:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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AZ
Could be. But, all the other families lined up against him during the war.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #786930
07/03/14 04:30 AM
07/03/14 04:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,465
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
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mustachepete  Offline
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No. Virginia
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
And if you look closely at that scene, Barzini gives himself away. He, not Vito, sits at the head of the table. He, not Vito, takes the lead in the discussions--and he jumps the gun on Vito by declaring: "Then it is settled. The traffic in drugs is allowed, and Don Corleone will give it protection in the East. And there will be the peace."


This is not really so implicating, is it? Vito opens his own remarks by thanking Don Barzini for helping Vito to organize the meeting. Vito's a party to the dispute, and so can't chair the meeting. It could actually be that Vito learns more from the silence of Cuneo and Stracchi than from anything Barzini says.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #787607
07/06/14 08:00 PM
07/06/14 08:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 24
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RedSeal Offline
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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Originally Posted By: slumpy
ehhh that's a little deus ex machina, don't you think?


It absolutely is. Especially coming from a man who lacked the cunning to know he was throwing Luca Brasi into a death trap.

Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #789856
07/17/14 11:06 AM
07/17/14 11:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
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When watching the GF again this afternoon, I noticed Vito's words after he consented to protect the drug trade in the East. He said "... I will not be the one to break the peace we've made here today." He could have said, "I will not break the peace ..." By stating the former, was he prophesying that the peace would be broken, but not by him?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #789861
07/17/14 11:18 AM
07/17/14 11:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 574
Scottsdale
Its_da_Jackeeettttttt Offline
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Scottsdale
Could be -- he was probably playing the long con rather than the short. By not breaking the peace, it was carte blanche for the other families to move in on the Corleone's turf, thinking Vito was weak.

In the end, Vito kept his word. It was Michael that struck back with a vengeance.

Last edited by Its_da_Jackeeettttttt; 07/17/14 11:18 AM.
Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: slumpy] #790079
07/18/14 08:00 AM
07/18/14 08:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,372
Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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Alabama
Oli I think he used it loosely to show he was truly sincere, but I think at that point he knew Michael was going to take over and he knew (I think) in his mind that Michael would get revenge because they killed Sonny and of course tried to kill Vito. By saying that, he knew they would eat it up as Barzini thought by Vito giving in that gave him more power and it also brought drugs in like they wanted with no war.

Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: olivant] #791774
07/25/14 12:40 PM
07/25/14 12:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Getting back to the question at hand, the answer is easy. If one of Michael's people comes to him telling him that Barzini wants a meeting on his turf for safety reasons, then it is clear the bearer of the news is a traitor.

As we know, negotiations between rivals within the mob have their own set of rules, the main one being that the "negotiators" ... i.e. the family whose name I forget, acts as the hostages while a meeting between adversaries takes place. This is the only way real negotiations take place...thats what they did when Michael was sent to meet Tatt.

For a capo to come to the don and inform him he has made the arrangements is not the way its done. Even Tom, who did not always sniff things out knew something was afoot when he asked Michael at the Vito's funeral about whether he knew "how they're going to come at you?" All Michael had to say the mettion was on Tessio's ground "where I'll be safe," and Tom understood right away by confessing he always thought it would be Clemenza, not Tessio.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: The Barzini Meeting [Re: Turnbull] #791775
07/25/14 12:44 PM
07/25/14 12:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
And if you look closely at that scene, Barzini gives himself away. He, not Vito, sits at the head of the table. He, not Vito, takes the lead in the discussions--and he jumps the gun on Vito by declaring: "Then it is settled. The traffic in drugs is allowed, and Don Corleone will give it protection in the East. And there will be the peace." (He's also the only Don smoking a cigarette--the others are smoking cigars.) I think Vito deliberately let him show his hand.

The only thing that surprises me is why it took Vito so long to figure out that it was Barzini all along. "Tattaglia is a pimp; alone he could never have outfought Santino." Well, Tattaglia was a pimp all along--why didn't Vito see that Barzini, younger than the other Dons and more ambitious, would have the most to gain?


Well, Vito had almost died, and he was out of the loop. The last real business he did was with Solozzo, and at the time they thought it was quite an accomplishment to have "discovered" that the Tattaglias were bankrolling him.
If you recall, the last thing Vito did was to have Luca Brasi go sniffiing around the Tattaglias to find out what was under Sol's fingernails. Had Vito not been shot, he would have realized it was Barzini sooner...keep in mind the next time Vito did any business was after Sonny died, and within the time of one meeting he realized it was Barzini all along.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

The HIDDEN SECRET Behind the Meeting [Re: slumpy] #1077884
12/24/23 05:24 PM
12/24/23 05:24 PM
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Over Here < < in TX
U talkin' da me ?? Offline
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Over Here < < in TX


"It's nothing personal, Sonny....... It's strictly business."



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