As I say, notwithstanding what you may have read, I suspect Manfredi Mineo was not part of that Family.

But hey, to be fair about it. At this stage of the game, over 100 years later, with the scant information we have to go on, there leaves a lot of unanswerable questions of out there. So who of us can truly say with absolute certainty, what was really what?

I think you'll agree that the correct answer to that particular question is, 'nobody'

Sully, If I may ask you. What was the criteria they used to connect Mineo as a member of the early Profaci Family, per se?

Because Giuseppe Morello was an early power from Downtown and Uptown in Harlem (not Brooklyn territory.) And having been killed by Fontana being killed by Mineo's family could just as easily point to the Salvatore D'Aquila Family (future Gambino Family), no?


If it's possible, could you please post up that portion of the article that speaks to this? I'd enjoy seeing it.

If you can, I thank you in advance.

Clemente made a clear distinction between D'Aquila and Mineo. They had two seperate families (the family split sometime before Fontana's murder).

Im surprised you havent read the book. Its by far the greatest piece on the early mafia aside from Critchley's book. Informer is shorter and has much newer info though. its only $5

Thank you for that Sully. I just read it.

But to be honest with you, these particular statements, allegedly made by Clemente, open up more questions than they answer. And they also open up a Pandora's box so to speak. Because, despite saying he was a member, either Clemente was confused (or ignorant of where the 'true' powers laid in these families), or the person documenting his remarks copied them down incorrectly.

The D'Aquila Family (although they had men all over the city), were always considered Brooklyn based, along with what later became the Bonanno and Profaci crews. And we know (or think we know) that Manfredi Mineo was neither a Masseria or Morello member.

So there are lots of conflicting words and thoughts in that paragraph you posted form Informer. Clemente's statement are inconsistent with what went know to be true.

I don't necessarily buy it.

Um... so? He was literally a made member, why does it matter what wikipedia says? Instead of saying Clemente is confused, why dont you first read his statements? If you did, you would see he furnished great info. Originally Ignazio Lupo was head of the Palermitani family, Giuseppe Morello was head of the Corleonesi family, and Paolo Orlando was head of the CDG/Camporeale family. The Palermo family was probably the largest as they had the most immigrants.Angelo Santino, one of the authors of the magazine, theorized that maybe the Palermo family split into two groups (D'Aquila and Mineo) because they had the most, maybe double. the members of the other groups. Or judging by the later war, the family split due to a internal war.

Sully, we must also keep in mind that there were lots of shifting alliances during the bloody period while guys maneuvered for power. So when we place a name within a certain group and try to etch it in stone, we may not be doing the correct thing here. We may be doing our own research an injustice by being so rigid. Understand what I'm trying to say here?

Michele Abatemarco, Giuseppe Peraino, Salvatore DeBella, etc., etc. The so-called "Brooklyn" crew, the early Profaci crew, had a very murky beginning to say the least. In fact, truth be told, it's the one family of NY's Five that we know the least about.

Its beginnings were on shifting sands, and many of its key early members jumped to the Masseria/Luciano Family as killings took place. Others aligned elsewhere. Some stayed, and solidified into what became the "DeBella Family" (Profaci Family). Its murky at best.

What I can say, is that, Stefano Ferrigno, who was murdered with "Al" Mineo, has a very interesting surname. Because years later, there was a veteran Profaci soldier, a real 'old-timer' by the name of Bartolo (Bart) Ferrigno.

Was he a brother? A son? A relative? I never checked into it, but I believe he was a brother. So there's another potential link for us.

Side note: But also keep in mind that the fact they got killed together doesn't necessarily mean they were part of the same family! Because in that apartment that day, their killers, were also part of several different crews, who worked together, during the war to win it. These fellas later became members of the Genovese, Lucchese, Bonanno and Profacii Families. So go figure, right?

Like I say, its a murky history (at best)

I don't disagree with you on that. In fact, I truly believe (based on what happened in NYC and many other cities during that era) that there were many factions from the same areas who split from one another, or competed with one another. We're not on opposite sides about that Sully. At all.

Because after the Castellammarese War ended, and the families formed the Commission, one of the many dictates and rules they declared was that these smaller families, and formally splintered factions, meld themselves into, and align with, the 'newly' recognized Families and powers that were set in place.

Anyway, it was nice chatting with you, and interesting and informative too.

Thanks you for that.

1.) Mineo later transferred to the Gambino family after D'Aquila's death.

2.) if we have a made member reporting something contrary to what books/wiki says we should first question the books/wiki. so i ask, where are you getting that he wasn't a boss?

No disrespect to anyone on this thread, but one name which was mentioned as "author" (angelina somethin somethin), is not an expert at all. "She" just theorize without any real proof or evidence, or in plane words "she" lives in fantasy land. If you ask me, Rick is the real and only expert in that project.

TD, I meant to ask Sully who this Angelo guy is he referred to? Because I've never even heard that name before and I'm very familiar with most of the recognized and respected authors in the mob genre who have written books and such. I'm drawing a complete blank as far as that name goes.

And from what you just explained it seems this Angelo character is a half-a-fraud who concocts his own 'theories' and conclusions about mob history and then tries putting it out there like its gospel and hard facts?

Sully, you must have misunderstood what I wrote or meant to convey in my previous posts. I never said he wasn't a leader, because I believe that he was. Now whether that means he was the official capo, an interim capo, a sottocapo, a capo di decina, or served in some other capacity in between, that's up for debate and we'll probably never know Mineo's 'true' official status.

That said, I personally believe he was always affiliated with the borgata that we now refer to as the Gambino Family. Regardless of who he might have been 'partners with, 'partnered' with, was in 'business' with, or chose to 'ally' himself with during those tumultuous times.

Because a mafiosi was partnered or connected with, even closely connected with, or fought on the same side as other guys, does not mean he necessarily carried the same 'flag,' understand what I'm saying here? Thats a very common mistake that many so-called 'researchers' have made over the years.

In fact, more times than not, mafiosi from completely different families often 'partner' up in business and the rackets because they were boyhood friends or came from the same village back in Italy, or had aligning interests so they become close. And law enforcement (and yes, even other so-called 'made' guys often think they are part of the same crew because of this constant affiliation. Yet, they weren't.)
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PS: You mentioned gathering information from wiki. Lol. I don't pay attention to anything that may be on "wiki." In fact, I never even bother to source it because its mostly garbage. IMO, thats a 'source' for folks who haven't a clue. For that matter, through the years I've started to read more than one book about the mob, only to realize that the author didn't know what he was talking about. So I've ended up closing that book and using it for firewood. Many so-called mob 'authors' haven't a clue about what's really what and will put out anything to try and turn a buck

The 'Family' that formed around Elizabeth, New Jersey;

Stefano 'Steve' Bedami (1910s-1920s)
Filippo 'Phil' Amari (1930s-1940s)
Nicholas 'Nicky Dell' Delmore (late 1940s-early 1960s)
Simone 'Sam the Plumber' DeCavalcante (early 1960s-early 1980s)
Frank 'Big Frank' Majuri - official NJ-based underboss for many years through several administrations
Joseph 'Joe Buff' LaSelva - another top figure who allegedly served in the capacity as underboss for their CT membership. A co-underboss with Majuri.
Giovanni 'John' Riggi Sr. (early 1980s-2015)
Vincent 'Jimmy' Rotondo - official underboss by the mid-late 1980s. Later murdered.
Francesco 'Frank' Guarraci (acting during 2000s)

Note: At a certain point after massive indictments came down against this family during the late 1980s and 1990s, there were many acting and interim bosses installed, as well as 'family panels' headed by capos that were formed to try and steer the ship. I did not bother to list each and every man who served within this 'acting' capacity.
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How about the Detroit crew? I think that was a pretty straight forward hierarchy, wasn't it? At least by the mid-1930s anyway, after Zerilli and Tocco took over.

Yup. A total fraud who theorize on why the sky is blue and why wall paint dries faster. I really feel awful when people look at that hermaphrodite (he is 100%) as credible researcher, i mean its like they all fall into hell's pit. As I already said, Rick is the only credible guy in that "crew". Theres not much difference between that freak angelina and known liars such as Alite.

Angelo is just as knowledgeable as Rick on the early years. Lennert is also incredibly knowledgeable. Not sure why you're disrespecting his like that though.

Angelo Santino is more knowledgeable on the early years than anyone on here. Im not sure how his character is in question. He's one of the guys on the mob archaelogists and one of the authors of the May 2014.

TD back up your claims that he's a fraud? He literally has more secret service files than anyone i've seen. He has info on everyone from that era, so back up your claim

Have you read about the information Salvatore Clemente furnished?

You're wrong. Rick and the rest of the guys carried "her" on their backs her whole life and they are the ones with the info, not angelina. Remember that. So the "creature" is a fraud.

Also, no disrespect but are you Eric? Angelinas friend and main helper? You really sound like him...

Thats actually not true. What was considered the 'overall' Chicago "Outfit" was actually considered an 'independent' gang from the Mafia. And even afterwards, they were but a single 'crew' of NY's Masseria Family until 1931. And the actual Mafia groups located around Chicago were much smaller entities who, although were Sicilian borgatas in their own right. Nonetheless were subservient to, and took direction from, the larger Families based in NYC and back east.

It was only after Chicago, under Capone, became recognized as a Family in their own right, that these other Mafia groups either melded into Capone's Family, or left the area altogether and realigned with other Families outside of Chicago, per se.

Nicely said NYM and thats one helluva info which is confirmed countless times by us.

lol i wish i knew as much as Eric, but no im not eric.

Good for you for not being him, because right now you were going to have lots of bruises on your veins.

Btw, if angelina is so credible than anyone around here, what the fuck are you doing here then? First you disrespected this forum and second, you are doing internet commercials regarding known liars. Stay with your own "people" and go away. Why are you coming here and haunting us?

Do you know why I love this forum? Two things....first, its the best place for all credible mob researchers and NORMAL people (since almost everyone started at the RD and GBB)....and second, the ignore button.

Goodbye

"It was only after Chicago, under Capone, became recognized as a Family in their own right, that these other Mafia groups either melded into Capone's Family, or left the area altogether and realigned with other Families outside of Chicago, per se."

NYmafia, are you joking? Chicago had a family dating back much longer than Capone. I'm guessing you haven't heard of Nicola Gentile. Nicola Gentile reported that there was a family in Chicago before Capone and I believe he said Merlo and Antonio D'Andrea were bosses.

Stefano Magaddino reported there being two factions in Chicago, one being Sicilian and one being Americanized (link: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=127672#relPageId=24&search=toto_loverti)

Joe Bonanno also reported that there was a family in Chicago headed by Giuseppe Aiello. This is wrong as the family was headed by Antonio Lombardo, Aiello was an underboss, but it still shows Bonanno knew of a family there before 1931.

"Do you know why I love this forum? Two things....first, its the best place for all credible mob researchers and NORMAL people (since almost everyone started at the RD and GBB)"

TD, I dont know Angelo or any of the BHF guys personally, but i do know that they are good, credible researchers. You disrespected Santino's research skills which i believe was uncalled for, you havent listed your reasonings yet.


If this place is for "all credible mob researchers," then first why do you get mad when i call out things that are contrary to informant accounts? you should be happy im holding you guys to a high standard, i expect you guys to be able to backup your claims and so far i haven't noticed you guys backing up your claims. Also, why is Giacomo Vacari on here if you value credible researchers? Did you guys not get the memo that hes a known liar? he even admitted it, here's the screenshot.

First of all, I suggest you learn how to read. Because if you read my previous post properly, then you'd know that I said there were, not one, but several early Mafia borgatas in Chicago. But they had nothing to do with Capone or "The Outfit."

So don't try and twist my words to fit your twisted narrative and agenda. Ok?

And secondly, with all due respect Sully. You don't know what the hell you're even talking about. But you are free to believe whatever you like, or whatever you need to, in order to fit in with your narrative. I really don't care either way.
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On another note, this thread seems to have taken a turn for the worst. So I think at this point, regarding this particular thread, it may be better for all parties involved to just, "agree to disagree" on the issues at hand. Yes or no? Do you agree?

Lol i cant read shit because im ignoring this asshole but i bet 100 bucks someones feelings got hurt lol the guy is an obvious arse-licker lol

fair enough, i have one more question though, you claimed the Chicago families "were subservient to, and took direction from, the larger Families based in NYC and back east" could you provide evidence for this?

Yeah dont read my post because it proves you wrong, smart move.