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Re: The Differences Between Street Gangs and The Mob
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#1059321
05/15/23 05:40 AM
05/15/23 05:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,635
Underground
Toodoped
Murder Ink
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Murder Ink
Underboss
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,635
Underground
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The street gangs are often used by the Mob as their "farm teams" for new recruitment and also for certain tasks. There are no more italian farm teams. What was the last time that the mob used the street gangs? For Zottola sr murder and Meldish murder? You might be right since I dont have much knowledge regarding the new era, mainly because i hate speculations.
He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
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Re: The Differences Between Street Gangs and The Mob
[Re: Liggio]
#1059322
05/15/23 06:03 AM
05/15/23 06:03 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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I went into this " across the street" in a thread about Org and Ops. Or as Anna Sergi phrases it, structure vs activity. Here comes a rant...lol To me, there are a couple major differences. 1st, is the overarching purpose. A street gangs purpose is rooted usually in eliminating immediate hardships, poverty, lack of self esteem, and maybe fear. Beyond immediate financial relief, personal protection, and some facsimile of identity, a street gang members overall purpose doesn't really extend beyond that. You ever seen the movie Momento? Where the guy forgets who he is every 5 minutes? Thats street gangs. No institutional memory. The subsequent generations never build on what the previous ones did. They start from scratch every time there any turnover. The Mafias overall purpose is gaining and maintaining Power in a given territory. Economic, military and political, SOCIAL....Judicial. Power. Im my opinion, It takes a tri-level interaction between social classes, ( The political- wealthy aristocracy at the top, the Mafia in the middle acting as an instrument of local government like John Dicke describes, and a kind of generic indifference from the regular folk, the citizens) in order for something to qualify as a true "Mafia". Otherwise what you have is a form of sophisticated organized crime, but not quite " MAFIA". In Italy, they describe several organizations as " Mafia associations" that are not Cosa Nostra. And this is from the DIA reports... They did a great job of dramatizing this on The Wire. Avon had achieved dominance in an economic sector, ( drugs), tacit approval of his authority from the local populace, and as Dicke describes as a fundamental component, a share of the " Violence Industry". Meaning in the projects, because cops are hesitant to go there, he could commit acts of violence with near impunity. They had hierarchy and rules. That was a organized crime group. What they didn't have, what Stringer wanted was that connection to the upper crust, the Tri- level interaction. So they wouldn't to me, quite qualify as a " Mafia". Now the Greeks, were interesting. To me, they are like the Caruana- Cuntreras or a similar type clan. They don't care really about ANY territory, thier organization is based on moving contraband. They corrupted 2 institutions, a labor union, which IS the preferred mechanism for a criminal organization to situate itself firmly in between the populace and the politicians, as well as infiltrate the business sector. They also corrupted the FBI. They committed selective acts of violence. I would consider them a " Mafia association" to use the language in DIA reports. @ Furio It's think it a DEEP error to judge Mafia activity by what you would consider "low level" crimes. For me, it's the Tri- level interaction. Not whatever criminal activity it is. I think stealing cattle is a low level crime. But if you are Luciano Leggio, and you steal so much cattle you form a meat supply company that now supplies real businesses like restaurants and such, now you are organized crime. If you are able to interact with the higher level and say... pay off cops or Judges, inspectors, secure contracts with hotels or restaurants or grocers, corrupt the local municipality, now you are " Mafia". Same with say... Nick Rizzuto selling contraband wheat. The skillset to move black market wheat is the same for moving things like heroin and coke. I don't see a real difference between rustling cattle for contraband beef, and a New Yorker hijacking a truck full of prime steaks bound for Midtown. I don't care if it's Demeos stolen cars, illegal landfills, drugs, concrete, fruits and vegetables, grapes for wine, if its Mexico what? Avocados and limes... right? Bootleg gas, stealing.... fuck. I'm searching for an article I thought I saved. It was about a Sicilian boss who moved to control theft in his territory. It's like... typically, he didn't care about petty theft. But there was so much thieving, practically an "industry of theft" in the territory he felt compelled to control it. He didn't go, ah.. fuck that low level stuff. Also....Contemporary Sicily is practically awash with drugs.... https://www.maredolce.com/2021/06/0...ia-dalla-gomorra-siciliana-alla-polonia/
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Re: The Differences Between Street Gangs and The Mob
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#1059323
05/15/23 06:18 AM
05/15/23 06:18 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
CabriniGreen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,650
Chicago
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The street gangs are involved onlybin blue collar crime like drug dealing,murdets,prostitution ecc the members are very young often underage so they can used to murder rival gang nembers without the risk of being tried as an adults,the gang members are ready to spend very long periods of their lives in prisons.
The mob are organizated with a clear hierarchy,are preferred white collar criminals aside blue collar mobsters. The objective is to enjoy the money and avoid prison when is possible. The mob control unions and high level scam.
The bosses are very old because have the experience to run a family while in a street gang the bossesare young because the veterans are dead or in prison. Take this from another DIA report about the Barcellona family. Notice how they mainly are drug dealers, but considered no less " Mafia" than the agriculturally based Batanesi gangs who manage to corrupt government farming subsidies. The people of Barcelona and drugs: “at home” or on “social networks” In the “Tyrrhenian belt” of the province, where the family of the “Barcelona” is considered hegemonic, the main business for the criminal organizations would be drug trafficking. In the second half of 2021, the “Drug Express” investigation made it possible to dismantle a criminal group headed by a Tunisian based in Milazzo but with ramifications also in Rome dedicated to managing the trafficking and dealing of cocaine and crack. A peculiarity of the illicit activity was the home delivery of the narcotic substance. The supply also took place through a Roman canal that transferred the drug to the people of Messina through the shipping system. The investigation confirming the criminal status of the association also revealed the existence of a criminal project aimed at carrying out an attack against the barracks and vehicles of the Guardia di Finanza of Milazzo and even to plan a revenge against a soldier who had subjected some of the suspects to a roadside check “. And, again, the “Lock Drugs” investigation, concluded by the Carabinieri on 22 July 2021, instead “concerned a thriving business of dealing in marijuana and cocaine in the Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto area carried out by very young subjects through the use of social networks, deemed less vulnerable in terms of investigative monitoring “. Now, all this kinda sounds a little like the silly street gangs we were JUST criticizing in the Rizzuto thread, right? Even with the silly kids on social media. But this is a Mafia according to Italian LE. It's about the nature of interactions with the institutions and the populace more than any particular criminal activity.
Last edited by CabriniGreen; 05/15/23 06:23 AM.
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Re: The Differences Between Street Gangs and The Mob
[Re: Toodoped]
#1059324
05/15/23 06:20 AM
05/15/23 06:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,239
naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,239
naples,italy
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The street gangs are often used by the Mob as their "farm teams" for new recruitment and also for certain tasks. There are no more italian farm teams. What was the last time that the mob used the street gangs? For Zottola sr murder and Meldish murder? You might be right since I dont have much knowledge regarding the new era, mainly because i hate speculations. In the 1990s we had the Barh Avenue Crew and Tanglrwood Boy but now? Of course the mob made businesses with blacks but to use them for murder a made man could send the messagge that the family is too weak or afraid of the feds to use own man.
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Re: The Differences Between Street Gangs and The Mob
[Re: Liggio]
#1059325
05/15/23 06:32 AM
05/15/23 06:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,239
naples,italy
furio_from_naples
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,239
naples,italy
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I went into this " across the street" in a thread about Org and Ops. Or as Anna Sergi phrases it, structure vs activity. Here comes a rant...lol To me, there are a couple major differences. 1st, is the overarching purpose. A street gangs purpose is rooted usually in eliminating immediate hardships, poverty, lack of self esteem, and maybe fear. Beyond immediate financial relief, personal protection, and some facsimile of identity, a street gang members overall purpose doesn't really extend beyond that. You ever seen the movie Momento? Where the guy forgets who he is every 5 minutes? Thats street gangs. No institutional memory. The subsequent generations never build on what the previous ones did. They start from scratch every time there any turnover. The Mafias overall purpose is gaining and maintaining Power in a given territory. Economic, military and political, SOCIAL....Judicial. Power. Im my opinion, It takes a tri-level interaction between social classes, ( The political- wealthy aristocracy at the top, the Mafia in the middle acting as an instrument of local government like John Dicke describes, and a kind of generic indifference from the regular folk, the citizens) in order for something to qualify as a true "Mafia". Otherwise what you have is a form of sophisticated organized crime, but not quite " MAFIA". In Italy, they describe several organizations as " Mafia associations" that are not Cosa Nostra. And this is from the DIA reports... They did a great job of dramatizing this on The Wire. Avon had achieved dominance in an economic sector, ( drugs), tacit approval of his authority from the local populace, and as Dicke describes as a fundamental component, a share of the " Violence Industry". Meaning in the projects, because cops are hesitant to go there, he could commit acts of violence with near impunity. They had hierarchy and rules. That was a organized crime group. What they didn't have, what Stringer wanted was that connection to the upper crust, the Tri- level interaction. So they wouldn't to me, quite qualify as a " Mafia". Now the Greeks, were interesting. To me, they are like the Caruana- Cuntreras or a similar type clan. They don't care really about ANY territory, thier organization is based on moving contraband. They corrupted 2 institutions, a labor union, which IS the preferred mechanism for a criminal organization to situate itself firmly in between the populace and the politicians, as well as infiltrate the business sector. They also corrupted the FBI. They committed selective acts of violence. I would consider them a " Mafia association" to use the language in DIA reports. @ Furio It's think it a DEEP error to judge Mafia activity by what you would consider "low level" crimes. For me, it's the Tri- level interaction. Not whatever criminal activity it is. I think stealing cattle is a low level crime. But if you are Luciano Leggio, and you steal so much cattle you form a meat supply company that now supplies real businesses like restaurants and such, now you are organized crime. If you are able to interact with the higher level and say... pay off cops or Judges, inspectors, secure contracts with hotels or restaurants or grocers, corrupt the local municipality, now you are " Mafia". Same with say... Nick Rizzuto selling contraband wheat. The skillset to move black market wheat is the same for moving things like heroin and coke. I don't see a real difference between rustling cattle for contraband beef, and a New Yorker hijacking a truck full of prime steaks bound for Midtown. I don't care if it's Demeos stolen cars, illegal landfills, drugs, concrete, fruits and vegetables, grapes for wine, if its Mexico what? Avocados and limes... right? Bootleg gas, stealing.... fuck. I'm searching for an article I thought I saved. It was about a Sicilian boss who moved to control theft in his territory. It's like... typically, he didn't care about petty theft. But there was so much thieving, practically an "industry of theft" in the territory he felt compelled to control it. He didn't go, ah.. fuck that low level stuff. Also....Contemporary Sicily is practically awash with drugs.... https://www.maredolce.com/2021/06/0...ia-dalla-gomorra-siciliana-alla-polonia/ The 90% of street gangs are made by guys selling dope at the street corners,fighting for the territory with other gangs and squeeze every penny out of the territory they control. The mob are organizated! An example in the Nebrodi mountains the mafia are from the 1980s that steal EU funds and we are talking of milions The mob have a hierarchy and with Provenzano only the moneymaker can climb the organization ranks. The mob is made for last while street gangs was disbanded and created quickly.
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Re: The Differences Between Street Gangs and The Mob
[Re: Liggio]
#1059327
05/15/23 07:15 AM
05/15/23 07:15 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,453
m2w
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,453
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In Italy there is a great difference between the crime of criminal association (ordinary gangs) and mafia-type associations; in order for it to be a mafia-type association – for which more serious penalties are envisaged – it is necessary to resort to the so-called mafia method for the pursuit of some specific purposes.
This method (the mafia method) is made up of three elements: the intimidating force of the associative bond, the condition of subjection and the condition of silence.
These three elements must necessarily coexist in order for the mafia-type association to be considered configurable. In fact, subjection must derive precisely from the intimidation mentioned above and must also manifest itself as a code of silence, that is, a refusal to collaborate with the institutions.
Article 416-bis provides that in order for it to be a mafia-type association, its members must associate for the purpose of:
• commit crimes;
• acquire, directly or indirectly, the management or control of economic activities, concessions, authorisations, contracts and public services;
• make profits or unfair advantages for oneself or for others;
• impede or hinder the free exercise of the vote or to obtain votes for oneself or for others during electoral consultations.
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Re: The Differences Between Street Gangs and The Mob
[Re: Liggio]
#1059343
05/15/23 11:58 AM
05/15/23 11:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,187
Blackmobs
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,187
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Well for crime groups, I think there is many differents kind of group.
You have crews, street gangs/gangs, organized crime groups and mafia-type groups.
Crews:
First you have groups that are not gangs, but simply crews, they can be just 3 members or even 20 members. Some are kind of organized and others aint.
You always had crews, most of the time they purpose is to make money. Like the drug dealers crews in the US during the Crack era. Or the Policy Kings that were kings in the numbers in the black community.
Gangs/street gangs:
Then you have gangs, like the street gangs. Alot of them are not organized at all or a little bit. Those gangs have many members and mostly in america they have there own neighborhoods. Many of them goes to war for things that have nothing to do with money, like colors, past beef etc. In any country or nationalities, you have thoses king of criminal groups.
Organized crime groups:
You have organized crime groups. Those groups are well organized, and are making alot of money in many criminal fields. Some of those groups were street gangs that became well organized, like the 60s, BMF or other groups. But some of those groups don’t come from street gangs but other kind of groups.
I would put the biker MCs in this category, but also groups like the Irish Mob, jamaican yardies and the chinese gangs like Big circle gang or Sam Gor. Well organized, even some groups are organized like the mafia-type groups.
Mafia-type groups:
Those groups are all about organized crime. Everything is organized from the bottom to the top. But the difference a think about the mafia-type groups and Organized crime groups, is that the mafia-type really got a CULTURE. Its not only about making money, but is really a way of life, even outside of the criminal world. A made guy or a yakuza got rules even outside of the aspect of crime.
Also, those groups, most of them, there culture goes way back in time.
I would put all the top italian crime groups in this category, but also the yakuza, the chinese triads, the nigerian cults (but maybe in the category of OC groups) and the russian bratvas.
**** I’ve put the Bikers MCs in OC groups and Nigerian Cults in mafia-type (they are known like that in italy). But some people would put them in either categories. Same with the irish mob. But the things with the irish mob, i’ve never seen books or articles about the CULTURE of the irish mob.
Last edited by Blackmobs; 05/15/23 12:16 PM.
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Re: The Differences Between Street Gangs and The Mob
[Re: Liggio]
#1059351
05/15/23 04:58 PM
05/15/23 04:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 236
Iceveins
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 236
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What are some striking differences between street gangs and the Mafia? Also, how are they alike? I've seen many times people here say that there's no difference. Street gangs lack cohesiveness, order and secrecy. They want people to know they are in gang and wear it on their sleeves.... literally. Both deal drugs but street gangs are much more closely connected to the drug activity in the streets which is why they are always getting killed over turf, the mafia dealt mainly with large quantities to other top echelons dealers behind the scenes and didn't get their hands dirty with low level drug deals on the block in plain sight. The mafia was like a wholesale clothing dealer and the street gangs were like store salesmen. The mafia also had their hands in just about every major industry that they could make money from, both illegal money (via hijacking, drugs etc) and legal money ( I use legal loosely as the businesses themselves may have been legitimate but the mafia muscled in on them with intimidation and extortion). The mafia also had influence with people in high places, like judges, politicians and police whereas street gangs have little to no influence with important people and earn their money in the lowest level of practices like drugs, petit theft and credit card scams.
Last edited by Iceveins; 05/15/23 06:02 PM.
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