https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/...s-profits-serait-allee-au-clan-violi.php

a very good article about both large tobacco smuggling cells paying tax to violi bros.
also near the end it states since the agostino-albanese once being allied with calabrians they had become more discreet since...or something along those lines i am paraphrasing.

i just read the above post by mafia101. if this site or these topics cause u to lose your mind i suggest perhaps taking up knitting and get out of the mafia chat business.none of the things we talk about on here should trigger such a reaction.

and mafia i feel you are still hanging on to some principle that doesnt exist. again just because a situation like the mafia in montreal had never happened before doesnt mean it has no validity. the rizzutos did not need or care what the bonannos thought about them. they didnt need there connections what they could have been for a mostly ny based crime family. the rizzutos had become bigger and stronger than not just the bonannos but the colombos and lucchese as well and that is a hard point to dispute. just look at the litany of rackets and the money involved as well as the various criminal groups the rizzutos were working with both in canada and abroad in the time period around 1999 and vitos arrest. its not even close and please dont make me go get my books on the subjest to quote verbatim because i am too tired and sick to do so.

so whether the rizzutos were an official family sanctioned by the commission or a satellite crew or if VITO RIZZUTO just woke up one morning and said meh i'm done with those rats in ny it doesnt matter we will never know. just as the commission doesnt sanction franchises said franchises dont have a grand opening letting all know they r now operating independent.

believe what u want to believe defend your points but keep it civil. we r better than the apes no need to huck poop at each other.

Vito buddy I've kept it civil until people made personal remarks about me. Notice I haven't said anything bad about you. Its not a petty jabs at eachother he's just saying dumb stuff that some people will eat up. The purpose of the links were to show the ruling parties in Montreal has changed since the time of the 2019 article you shared.

Would the word of a former Bonanno involved with the leadership at that time not be enough to know if Montreal sent a envelope? Dom Cicale said Sal Montagna collected the tribute and travelled between the two locations delivering messages. That is backed up with recordings from Joe Massino and Vinny Basciano.

There's quite a few examples of Families not electing a Boss right away. After Albert Anastasia was killed Carlo Gambino didn't become official Boss until 1960. Joe Cammarano held a vote in 2015 to become Acting Boss and then another in 2017 to become official Boss and Michael Mancuso went to jail in the late 2000s. Whatever happened Joe Cammarano didn't become Boss. When Tony Accardo stepped down in 1957 a new Boss wasn't confirmed until the 1960s. It happens.

The question of their structure hasn't been answered anywhere. Of any of the cells in Montreal we wouldn't be able yo outline the entire structure. Nicola Spagnolo was considered one of the men at the table in 2015 but he isn't mentioned in any of the recent articles so where does he sit? Is he a number two to the 4 co leaders? Or is he rank 5? We can't answer that because we don't know the structure.

The Musitano ndrina exists in Calabria and maybe was considered to be in Ontario when Angelo Musitano first came over. But like the Luppinos and Papalias who all had Ndrangheta roots they joined the Buffalo Family. The RCMP and local Ontario police considered Pat Musitano a Buffalo member. Also to add a little more Project Otremens recordings had Vincenzo Morena asking Joe Violi who gave permission to Pat Musitano to kill two made men and Joe Violi responded he thinks Joe Todaro gave it. It doesn't explicitly say it but one can see that as a Boss giving his Soldier permission to kill someone.

Never said the Annunziata cell carries any influence. I was just giving you a little insight into who they are since you didn't know.

The fact someone doesn't understand the most basic stuff about the Mafia and is going to argue all you need to be Mafia is be Italian and commit crimes is just nuts. That is my point. There's people on here who are trying to tell us what is what when they don't understand the simplest things. It's frustrating when no one bats a eye at that but if I say we dont know what Montreal is which is absolutely a the truth I get dogged on by several users and accused of rewriting history or not knowing what I'm talking about.

I also take issue when you try to say the Rizzutos didn't need or care about the Bonanno Family. How would you know how they feel or what they thought?

I'm not questioning and never have questioned the overall strength and how much money Montreal was making.

I can agree they don't announce they're independent or whatever. That's why I say we dont know. But why can't others also accept this and just say we dont know instead of they are their own Family or they're this or that. Too many of you are speaking as if these are facts and not just what you believe.

The issue is that you are deliberately omitting crucial information in order to create a straw man argument. The crucial information being that Nick Rizzuto was made over on the other side, as were some of the other guys around him. Some of their mafia bloodlines go back to the 1800s. Nevermind Nick, Nick's wife is the daughter of Antonio Manno. I doubt if Antonio Manno would have cared whether or not the five families of New York have "recognized" his progeny in Canada.

The Rizzutos are not "just a bunch of Italian guys committing crimes".

mafia i will say first that when threads start to derail on any topic because of insults and what not i check out. i have not read anything that was said by anyone personally insulting you. i mean that literally. if i wanted to be vindictive for any reason i would be on faceback, twitter or some other nonsense soc media platform. i come here looking for current info on topics im interested in and to learn like most.

i dont discount all of your posts they contain good info.

to yer point about nicola spagnolo and structure. you are correct we dont know. my best guess about spagnolo is that if there is any person of influence cell leader what ever we call it that he reports to it is leonardo rizzuto. i say this for several reasons.
1. the 2 have long standing family ties. i dont believe they are directly related but there fathers were very close for a long time and that means something.
2. spagnolo has never been arrested as part of a group bust naming him as leader of anything. hes faced some pinches for gun possession and most recently his stabbing of a man at a nightclub. but never anything showing he has special standing.
3.spagnolos inclusion in the "executive table" could arise from his close association with l. rizzuto. it could be a translation issue from french to english, bad info from police?
4. when magot/mastiff busts fell in 2015 the only 2 members of said table arrested were rizzuto/sollecito. spagnolo was not arrested. barely mentioned really aside from being caught on surveillance.
5. the "executive table" best evidence suggests no longer exists so any potential for him to be a leader may be over. remembering also his stabbing bust.

all i will say about musitanos is that i no longer bother looking in to who they were what they were. my reading has shown they were 'ndrangheta possibly under protection of buffalo mafia. or like many mafia groups in canada held some kind of dual membership. the reason for no longer researching the musitanos is that they are all dead. any associates by now have gotten out of game or latched onto some other OC group.

keep any and all comments coming i do enjoy the banter.

That's not omitting crucial information it's irrelevant because for one we don't know if he was made in Italy or not and two he was a Bonanno member and three your family going back generations as Mafia members doesn't automatically make you a Mafia member. You could probably find dozen of examples of respected families going back generations as Mafia members and their descendants still commit crimes but aren't recognized as Mafia members. In fact I even gave a example of this earlier in the post with Joe Cuntrera. The Cuntreras and Caruanas are considered Mafia royalty and yet he isn't recognized by the Buffalo Family.

Point in case above of people speaking as if things are facts when it's unconfirmed. I also never said they are just a bunch of italian guys committing crimes but that is a possibility.

to the points on what the rizzutos thought of the bonannos or sending or not sending envelopes, when they stopped, did they stop...this is all info we may never know.
the rizzutos actions are what i look at. there was no inclusion of the bonannos in there rackets for the most part. the messina bridge project for example a close to billion dollar scheme ( that never took off) included no one from bonannos. unindicted co conspirator nothing not a mention. perhaps again the rizzutos still trickled an envelope and mostly kept the ny bonannos in the dark about there bigger rackets?

no mention of bonannos being criminally involved in the biggest one time bust in history of mafia in canada proj colisee. over 90 member and associates arrested including entirety of top administartion of a still functioning crime family and not a sniff about bonannos anywhere. 90 members and associates is fairly large for a satellite crew and thats just who they pinched.

no mention of bonannos in;
poject clemenza 1,2,3 (2014-2016)
proj magot/mastiff (2015)
the myriad of arrests into corruption, bid rigging etc. relating to montreal construction industry (2009-2013+-). i only mention because the majority of those arrests relating to charbonneau commission were of civilians, politicians, construction leaders men who would spill the beans to save their skin and some did but nothing about bonannos.

possible montagna was mr. envelope makes sense has canadian citizenship and up until his 2002 indictment would have been free to travel. and really this may not have even required montagna to cross border. perhaps some trusted associate/member also without a record could have crossed border and left it in a stash somewhere. we may never know and that is because montagna is dead.

which brings me to last point for now. if said payments continued through 1999, after 2004 arrest of V.R., proj colisee 2006 i think we can agree that by the time montagna is murdered in nov 2011 those payments ceased to exist. those arrested charged and eventually imprisoned were not from rizzuto camp obviously. desjardins and mirarchi were leaders of this plot. but joe dimaulo was brother-in-law to desjardins. dimaulo would definitley been considered a made guy in the bonannos going back to the 70's. and dimaulo ok'd it, stayed out of way certainly did nothing to stop it.

so if bonannos retained even a small crew of supporters remaining in montreal no revenge has taken place. no mention of bonannos being behind plot to murder desjardins in prison, that was HA/MAFIA/WOOLLEY ALLIANCE. mirarchi is still alive, not even the shooter jack simpson has been taken out.

so i will concede the possibility exists that bonannos still held some kind of link if but an envelope up until 2011. after that there is no evidence to prove any remaining crew or influence.

i may have mispoke there is a connect. in the massive jimmy cournoyer pot bust there was an established connection between the pot export and the bonanno family. the feds were able to arrest a wholesale pot distributor and indicted associate john venizelos. venizelos has a minor tacit link to made man vincent faraci. the link being venizelos, of possible greek extraction worked at night club being run by faraci. faraci was not arrested nor hasnt since been connected to anything of the sort since.
so the big connect that i can find from published indictments was:
a large cross border cannabis network led by a french canadian who has no proven connection to mafia in montreal was selling wholesale amounts of cannabis to an associate of the bonannos of possible greek extraction.

that dog just dont hunt.

Mafia is a process,not a thing. Mafia is a form of clan - cooperation to which it's individual members pledge lifelong loyalty....Friendship, connections, family ties, trust, loyalty, obedience - this was the glue that held us together.

Joseph Bonanno

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