What were Michael's plans?

He told Tom I have my own plans for my future. This is after he had just quit College and enlisted in the Marines.

Had things turned differently,I think Mike would have settled down with Kay, raised a family,and pursued a very successful career in business,(perhaps Wall Street),or even in politics.

According to some articles I've seen,Mike expressed an interest in politics,even in childhood,and,wondered if there would ever be an Italian President.

The path he chose,(and some may argue,the one that he was forced into),while noble, in the sense of protecting the Corleones, turned out to be the great tragedy of his life.

He lost everything, his brothers,his wives,his children,and eventually,his beloved daughter,gave the Corleone Family business to Vincent, and died broken and alone.

Nothing in life is sadder than wasted talent.

The only thing we know for sure, per the movie, is in a deleted scene, after Connie's wedding, when Vito and his sons visit the dying Genco in hospital. Vito asks Michael what his plans are, and Michael, obviously uncomfortable, says, "Finish school." Vito says he approves, and tells Michael to come to him after graduation. Michael turns away from Vito.

There wasn't enough time, for Michael, wasn't enough time....to even enrol, to "Finish school" because of this Sollozzo business

Vito's Grand plansIs it fleshed out in the novel that Vito had no stomach for vengeance? that “it was Michael's initiative” deliberately playing weak, to take Barzini and everyone, by surprise, with their brilliant Great Massacre [with “Vito's guidance and counsel”]

I find this perplexing that Vito would let Sonny's murder [machine gunned like a Swiss cheese] and Michael's attempted murder, resulting in his new wife, Apollonia's death [car bombed] go unanswered by Carlo and Barzini respectively

Sure thing Lou this Sollozzo business turned things on its head

However as Michael and Kay met at Dartmouth, Michael 'abandoned' Kay twice

First when Michael “quit College” and went to war after the Pearl Harbour attack
Michael and Kay must have reconnected on Michael's return from the war

Second when Michael fled to Sicily after murdering Sollozzo and McCluskey
Michael only contacted Kay after being back longer than a year

Yet Kay still married Michael after all this time? Here -- Kay was calling and writing....

Is this in one of the followup novels? My sense is that Kay is clearly younger than Michael, probably in high school when the war started. The novel says she intended to finish school after marrying. The novel also says Michael "entered' Dartmouth after the war, "and so left his father's house.' So I think that Michael attended Fordham or some such before the war, and lived at home.

It is not the path he was forced to choose, It is the wife he chose that done him in

Vito, having no other suitable blood Corleone to succeed him, had Michael under his tutelage [with “Vito's guidance and counsel”] and that's why it took longer than a year for him to get around to seeking Kay and settling for her

The novel says: "When Michael Corleone was discharged early in 1945 to recover from a disabling wound, he had no idea that his father had obtained his release. He stayed home for a few weeks, then, without consulting anyone, entered Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, and so left his father's house. To return for the wedding of his sister and show his own future wife to them, the washed-out rag of an American girl." I take that to mean that Michael had no connection with Dartmouth or Kay before the war.

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying.but is it your position that Michael choosing Kay somehow caused him to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey?

longer than a year and Mama couldn't find Michael a nice Italian origin bride, suitable Mob Boss wife!

Success?

Sonny's initiative bankroll hotel, send Fredo to learn legitimate casino business

what articles

How Kay know he married Apollonia

why Michael obviously uncomfortable, to "Finish school." Tom did

The Godfather Wiki Fan Page is one.

I don't think that Michael is uncomfortable about what he's telling Vito. He's uncomfortable about what he's concealing, about Kay and his relationship with the family.

Vito would have already seen him with Kay when he came to the wedding late and in his Marine uniform Nobody missed that!

Don't know Pete he may have disapproved of his American Girlfriend but I reckon there was nothing to conceal as their relationship was out in the open

I meant choosing to marry her after returning from Sicily

True he lost his first wife killed by the car bomb planted for him and Fredo because Vito stepped over him for his kid brother but no other grief if she had been like Carmela she'd have kept the family together no matter what

1. Anthony would have been at Law school
2. they wouldn't have been at the Opera where Mary was killed

As hot headed as he was, his forward thinking set their legitimacy wheels in motion

I didn't think anyone other than Vito knew about Apollonia but Kay for someone who was banished, knew a lot of inside stuff even that Michael killed Fredo

As soon as Michael heard about Vito's shooting, Michael is the one 'unchoosing' Kay and then ended up having to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey

The most significant difference between Michael's wife Kay and Vito's wife Carmela is, Carmela never questioned Vito about the business and Carmela's love, loyalty and support for Vito was unconditional

So Vito never had to worry about their blood family at all and it is worth noting when Vito and Carmela married Vito was a law abiding shop employee in a Grocery store and only became Mafia after as opposed to when Michael and Kay married, Kay knew Michael was Mafia

What would Sonny's role be, in their 'legitimate' world?

I reckon Sonny would have been boss in Nevada and de facto Don of Clemenza and Tessio

Tom family lawyer

Fredo would have had no problem, taken care of by his older brother

Mike as Lou_Para said would have settled down with Kay, raised a family,and pursued a very successful career in business,(perhaps Wall Street),or even in politics.

Though what to do with Carlo?

Carlo's a tough call. He's pretty much a goofus. I would think that the Corleones would want to make sure that Connie lived comfortably,and raised a nice family.
So here's some speculation:

1) Set him up in a (legitimate) trucking or waste management business. Even as a front man,he could show income,pay taxes,etc.

2) This next one is a bit off the wall,but how about a Casino Host in one of Sonny's properties? Before you laugh too hard,consider this:

Casino Hosts are the guys that recruit and cater to the "Whales" meaning the top high roller gamblers.
Carlo has the wheel and deal personality,and could certainly develop connections to score high demand sold out tickets to sports or entertainment events.
Other perks include luxury suites with a Butler and Personal Chef,private chopper flights to the Grand Canyon for romantic picnics with their female friends,
24 hr use of a Limo and Chauffeur, 5 figure "gifts" for Mr & Mrs Whale,etc,etc. The list goes on.

This job would keep him under the watchful eye of Sonny,provide a comfortable living for him and Connie,and generate a nice additional income in the way of tips.
Hosts are legitimate hustlers in the Gaming Industry,and I think Carlo could do OK.

What do you all think?

What was he concealing about Kay? He brought her to the wedding and dragged her into the family photo.

All this begs a question: Was Michael a natural-born criminal? "A man has but one destiny," Vito said in the novel (about Sonny). Was Michael destined to lead a life of crime?

I've argued many times that Michael had choices at each and every crossroads in his life. He chose the criminal path every time. The shooting of his father impelled him to start on his life of crime by killing Mac and Sol. It did not compel him to kill them. He was not "forced" to protect Vito by killing them.

If Vito hadn't been shot, if the peaceful status quo prevailed, Vito lived a long life, and Sonny lived to succeed him, Michael probably would have married Ky, had kids, graduated from college, chosen a non-criminal career (law, teaching, perhaps) and generally kept at arm's length from his family. His criminal tendencies may have remained dormant for the rest of his life. But, Vito's shooting ignited the lust for power that was deep inside Michael. I don't think he relished violence, but he never shied away from it in pursuit of the power that led him down the criminal path. The personal tragedy of Michael's life was his obsession with legitimizing his criminal activities--he never accepted the reality that he was a criminal. It tormented him and made him live a life of lies for himself, his wife and his children.

There is the classic slow motion gradual close-up shot of Michael,outlining his plan to kill Sol and Mac.
This is the moment when we realize that the old idealistic Michael is gone forever.
I do agree with Turnbull that Mike had choices,but only before he crossed the line.
Afterwards, as with any Mob Chief,there were killings that he had to do to protect his empire,
I will concede that he probably went too far with some i.e. Fredo,Roth.
As for the 5 families murders,I don't know many options he had.
Had he merely executed Tessio as a traitor,he still would have Barzini and his puppet Dons to deal with.
I do feel that Mike fell in love with the power and fear he generated,so it wasn't always "just business"
Even Tom,at one point asked Mike 'Do you have to wipe everybody out"?
Bottom line,IMHO, Michael was a bad seed who was psychologically pre-disposed to becoming the sociopath that he was.

He was "forced" to protect Vito by killing them. the only one because Sol only meet Michael to proposition

Mike had choices,but only before Sonny was killed

not in novel or movie He was dismissive another pezzonovante

That he was going to marry Kay and "cut close ties with his family."

He was "forced" to protect Vito by killing them The only one Sol would let near them

Once he was "forced" to take over after Sonny was killed, it was not easy just to walk away
He was a powerful man with responsibility for others

Michael had the added impossible, unrealistic burden of Vito's obsession with legitimizing Vito's decades old criminal activities

The personal tragedy of Michael's life was because of the wife he chose who became his horror that done him in
She never understood nor supportive that he was a top Mafia boss, trying to become a "legitimate" businessman

As Capri said, Mike had choices,but only before Sonny was killed

Roth always be a threat to Michael and wouldn't have rested until he was dead
No doubt Fredo could have been spared

Don't know that Mike fell in love with the power and fear he generated, I reckon they were justified murders I don't feel I have to wipe everyone out -- just my enemies -- that's all. They hit him so -- He hit 'em back Roth started it!

Could you expand on your opinion -- I'm particularly interested in knowing -- uh -- how you reckon Michael was a bad seed who was psychologically pre-disposed to becoming the supposed sociopath that he was?

Mr Turnbull and Mr Para, I think you are being too harsh! on Michael

How “Vito's shooting ignited the lust for power [if any!] that was deep inside Michael” or "impelled him to start on his life of crime"?

Michael protecting his father by killing Sollozzo and McCluskey was at that stage, a one-off
Besides Sonny was alive and it was Sonny who was always going to succeed Vito

Michael was indeed "forced" to protect Vito by killing Sollozzo and McCluskey because Michael was “The only one Sol would let near them” as Sollozzo himself said to Sonny, Sollozzo wanted Michael to proposition - stall the Corleones with civilian Michael, to buy time

and Michael's spot on strategy
I believe Michael “accepted the reality that he was a criminal” because Michael told Geary “We're both part of the same hypocrisy”

• Michael's choices were - Kill or be Killed

"Once he was "forced" to take over after Sonny was killed" “as with any Mob Chief, there were killings that he had to do to protect his empire” and they can never shy away from it not just to stay on Top but to stay alive

It could work! Sonny gotta business to run He gotta kick asses sometimes to make it run right
So with that famous temper of his, huh Sonny? can straighten things and people out....

Both Sonny and Fredo banging cocktail waitresses two at a time! too

Sure thing Carlo is a hustler but a Casino Host in some Mickey Mouse night club somewhere! Send Carlo, the Don's only son-in-law, to pick the “top high roller gamblers” up at the airport!

This might stop Carlo hitting Connie though being “under the watchful eye of Sonny”

My take, for what it is worth!
Michael's “close ties with his family." among others - Extracts:

• quit College and enlisted in the Marines in defiance of his father's big plans and high hopes for him
• Michael stayed put and remained seated all by himself when everyone else hurried to greet Vito at Vito's surprise birthday party
• Michael came to Carlo and Connie's wedding late and in his Marine uniform, hand in hand, flaunting, his American girlfriend, Kay and sat away from everyone
• Kay, an outsider 'White Anglo-Saxon Protestant' WASP was also considered to be too forward or similar for an unmarried woman

Side questions please
1. How did Michael still enlist when Michael already had a deferment registered?
2. Michael knew? when he went to enlist that “Pop had pulled a lot of strings to get him a deferment”

In 1940, as the US ramped up military preparedness, the War Department started drafting young men into the Army--the largest of the military services. The Navy and Marine Corps relied on volunteers. Michael volunteered for the Marine Corps. His deferment from the Army draft was irrelevant to the Marines because he volunteered.

Vito probably bribed, or had Tom bribe, a doctor to certify to Michael's Draft Board that Michael had some physical or mental condition that would render him unfit for military service. He might not have told Michael about it simply because he assumed that Michael wouldn't, or shouldn't, want to be drafted That was before Pearl Harbor.

While some of the killings that Mike ordered could be justified as "self defense" and strictly business, the reason I consider him an incipient psycho are the ones that weren't necessary.

Roth was a washed up ,broken down, ex big shot in FBI custody and would be hard pressed to cause any problems worse than the ones he'd already failed at.

The prostitute in the brothel was slaughtered horribly so Mike could put the screws to Geary. This was an innocent girl who was treated like garbage by Mike. She was murdered and presumably dumped in a landfill,lake or shallow grave. And for what?

Fredo didn't have to die. Mike could have given him a pass and exiled him from the Family.
Who but a true sociopath would kill his own brother.
Of course Mad Sam DeStefano killed his own brother,but that kind of makes my point.

Again,this is just my own opinion.

No doubt it is nice, fun to flesh out the different opinions, interpretations, speculations, knowledge of the Forum members, in the spirit of the Board which keeps us conversing half a century on

My two cents worth!
I reckon all the killings were justified even Fredo's, in view of this is the business they've chosen and they all know the consequences of what will happen as a result of their betrayal

I believe, a man like Roth would risk going through it all again and again until he had Michael destroyed or dead
This is the man who didn't care if women and children were killed as long as Michael was

He still had his 300 million, Questadt, Geary and he'd always remain a dangerous foe, stone in Michael's shoe and I reckon, needs to be wiped out Get him -- let's get him now, while they can

While the Geary set up prostitute murder is no doubt deplorable,
1. would the band leader's brains not be splattered on the Godson's release contract if he still refused to sign?
2. what about Khartoum?

No doubt Fredo could have been spared as we'd debated that Michael could have continued to keep him under watch same as until Mama died

Since Fredo set his own brother up to be murdered, he is a true sociopath too and we have to consider him an incipient psycho as well

Evita,have you ever had a chance to read the Novel ?

Check out this thread for a discussion of people's opinions on who had to die:
http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=948684&page=1

Kay Biggest hypocrite

Exactly Evita Why Vito always get a pass

Why Tom get a pass?


Why Fredo get a pass?

same logic Since Fredo set his own brother up to be murdered, he is a true sociopath too and we have to consider him an incipient psycho as well

At least speaking of this forum, I don't think that they get passes. Fredo, in particular, is seen much more darkly here than seems to be presented in the movie.

Why some seem to get a pass in the movie itself is more of a "how." One technique is just using emotion, like Fredo in the boathouse, to create sympathy. Another is to show something completed, as with the prostitute's murder, so that Tom and Fredo aren't actually shown participating. The audience can only process so much in real time.

Great thread!

Catching up a bit...



Michael had choices all along. Hard choices, maybe, but still choices.

Sure, Michael killing Sol and McCluskey himself was expedient but was it really necessary?

The Family knew hours in advance where the meeting was going to be. It was a restaurant that was open to the public. Why not have some of their operatives eating dinner there and have them kill Sol and Mac? Why not have the hundred buttonmen Sonny bragged about make a frontal assault on the restaurant while Michael was in the bathroom? Sol and Mac had no idea that the Corleones knew where they were going to be (or that anyone would dare to kill Mac) so they wouldn't have had much security with them.

It was Michael's desire to control things that made him unwilling to rely on anyone else to kill Sol and Mac. But it wasn't the only way.



I don't know about that.

Vito and Carmella were the prototypical Mafia couple, but they still had a son go so far as to enlist in the Marines and marry a WASP.

One of the sub-themes in the Trilogy is the tension between assimilating into American society and retaining Old World values.

Maybe Michael and, say, Apollonia would not have gotten a divorce but their son would be even more "American" than Michael was, so he still would most likely have wanted to forge his own path rather than accede to Michael's wish for him to become a lawyer.

True Michael was unwilling to rely on anyone else to kill Sol and Mac because it was the only foolproof way.

I will have to watch that scene again but as I remember, it was short notice
They were panicking that they didn't know where the meeting was going to be when they were eating dinner

Suddenly if there is a lot of activity at and around the restaurant and more than usual men dining there even for the best veal in the city, I reckon it would attract unwanted attention

Also it is fleshed out in the novel, Sol had his people check the restaurant out, bathroom and all and a man was actually dining there, keeping watch

As regards a frontal assault, Sol could have had people guarding the restaurant too

That's my family, Kay. It's not me Michael ended up Mafia Don so there is no guarantee however all he wanted was after the law degree, Anthony can do whatever he wanted, to forge his own path but he got no support from Kay

As regards people getting a pass,

I reckon, Vito is seen through rose-colored glasses
He too was a cold blooded murderer despite his outward nice guy appearances like his threat of lethal force even in such simple business as the release of his Godson's contract

We can be brutal to Mike that an innocent girl was slaughtered horribly and treated like garbage but no mention of Tom

We are still debating Fredo could have been spared

I have, what am I missing?

Thanks Turnbull My misunderstanding, defiance is inaccurate

Vito secured the Army draft deferment for Michael, not anticipating that Michael would end up volunteering with the Marines
Michael didn't know Vito had secured him the Army draft deferment when Michael went to enlist with the Marines

What about Sonny, Tom and Fredo? They were all able bodied young men fit for military service too
Did Vito also manage to secure Army draft deferment for all of them

250,000 dollars Plus a monthly payment of 5% of the gross -- of all four hotels and Free gaming license
And before anyone slaughters! me....

Working Girl Murder

Of course. He could have bribed doctors to certify that they were "unfit" for service. Or he could have gotten one of his judges or politicians inform their Draft Board that they were "key employees" of the Genco Pura Olive Oil Company, and that without them, the company would go out of business, harming the war economy and putting other employees out of work. Another approach: Vito gave them "key positions" in the labor unions he controlled. Since the cooperation of unions was vital to the war effort, Vito's politicians would have no trouble convincing Draft Boards to grant them deferments or exemptions. Jimmy Hoffa, the Teamsters' powerhouse, used that ploy to escape the draft during WWII.

Too many variables like Sollozzo might not even be in the car

Is this the most cunning of "keep your friends close but your enemies closer"

As the book informs, Michael didn't want to do this. Connie nags Kay, Kay nags Michael. Michael agrees, but tells Kay that it doesn't fix Connie's real problem - which is that she married the wrong type of guy. He doesn't feign close friendship with Carlo.

I didn't mean to imply that you were missing anything.
I just thought as a GF fan,you'd get a kick out of all the story lines that didn't make it to the film.

Thank you Lou and you are not wrong
For clarity, I thought I had missed something, being always hungry for and getting a kick out anything Godfather except Puzo droning on and on about Lucy, Fontane and Genco

As regards the story lines, from what I remember,
1. Luca Brasi's how evil he was and why he was so loyal to Vito
2. paedophile Woltz

this kind of makes my point about how Vito is seen through rose-colored glasses
1. as long as Luca was killing for him, his baby can be thrown into a fiery furnace while still alive
2. as long as Woltz gave the movie part to his Godson, he can keep molesting children

Neri's how brutal he was and why he was so loyal to Michael

I couldn't agree more about the ponderous Lucy surgery storyline.
Another great part of the novel was the whole Bocchicchio saga. Professional hostages,hell of a way to make a living.

The negotiator / hostage for Michael-Sollozzo meeting, for Michael's safe return!

If my memory serves me right, a Bocchicchio who'd already murdered his former colleagues, for betraying him, in some scam business deal or similar, took the rap for Sollozzo and McCluskey killings that cleared Michael of all these 'false' charges

In both the movie and the novel, a Bo hostage guaranteed Michael's safety when he met with Sol and Mac. The novel says that, in addition, Felix Bo enabled Michael's freedom from prosecution for the two murders when the eturned by confessing to the murders.. Novel also says the Bo's supplied hostages for all the families attending the Commission meeting.
As Lou said: hell of a way to make a living. But, the Bo's made a hell of a good sidestory, and added some Sicilian "color."
Incidentally, there was a real-life Felix Bocchicchio. He had a rap sheet as long as your arm and was in the boxing racket with Frankie (Mr. Gray") Carbo.

very lucrative too They get a hefty fee and as I remember, no Bocchicchio hostage was ever harmed

The novel states that "...since the Bochicchios were so primitive, they never let anything, any kind of punishment, stand in their way of vengeance. They would give up their own lives and there was no protection against them if they were betrayed." I inferred from that comment that Bo hostages must have been killed, and the Bo's wrought vengeance, for them to have earned that reputation.

Don't know Turnbull while good point they must have already earned their fearsome reputation

Otherwise no one is going to trust their lives with small potatoes Bochicchio hostages and more importantly for them to even start up this lucrative but hell of a way to make a living business

I think that is exactly what Turnbull is saying; they earned their fearsome reputation.

Anyway, on a slightly different note, there is a nice little counterpoint between the movie and the novel concerning the Bocchicchio's.
From the movie when Clemenza is schooling Mike about the Sollozzo hit:

CLEMENZA
All right, you shot 'em both...now what do you do?

MICHAEL
Sit down, finish my dinner...

CLEMENZA
Come on kid, don't fool around...


In the novel, specifically the section about the Bocchicchio clan and their history:

In any case, Felix Bocchicchio was released from prison after serving three years, went home and kissed his wife and three children and lived peacefully
for a year, and then showed that he was of the Bocchicchio clan after all. Without any attempt to conceal his guilt, he procured a weapon, a pistol, and
shot his lawyer friend to death. He then searched out the two businessmen and calmly shot them both through the head as they came out of a luncheonette.
He left the bodies lying in the street and went into the luncheonette and ordered a cup of coffee which he drank while he waited for the police to come and arrest him.

In the movie,while the Corleones are waiting to send Michael to the Sol hit,there is a mention of the "negotiator" playing pinochle with Clems men,amd that until Mike comes back safe and sound,he keeps playing cards.
I wonder if Coppola used that phrasing instead of 'hostage' to avoid going into an explanation of the Bo's. I think by this time in the production, only stuff really critical to the story was going to be included.

That's a nice catch!

The book does use "negotiator" as well as "hostage." It would sound pretty odd to say the hostage is happy, they're letting him win.

When he was annotating the novel, Coppola just crossed out pages related to the Boccicchio. It could be that he didn't even process that the Sollozzo hostage was a Bocchicchio.

Sure thing the Bochicchios “fearsome reputation” they would “wrought vengeance” no matter what, seems to me “they must have already earned” before starting up their negotiator / hostage business which guarantees, the family they are being held hostage for, will be safe or else....

I am confused! So who hires these negotiator / hostage?

The one playin' pinochle, at Clemenza's place, presumably for Michael's safe return was hired by Sollozzo or the Corleones

He was hired by Sollozzo, in an agreement made with the Bocchicchio Family. If Michael was harmed during the meeting, the Corleones would kill the hostage. The Boccicchio would blame Sollozzo for loss of their kinsman, and seek revenge against him.

Thanks Pete So that's why the Bocchicchios get their fee paid in advance!

There was no hostage for Sollozzo because civilian Michael was no threat

As a matter of interest, if a meeting is arranged, say, between two warring families, do they hire hostages, for -
1. each other or
2. themselves

The Bo familymade for one of best side stories in the novel, but it was pure fiction.

I've seen an interview where Puzo said he did some research into Sicilian mafia. I've always wondered if the Bocchicchio reflected that in some way.

One issue with the Bocchicchio narrative is that at the start of the novel everyone's been at peace for ten years. Bad time for professional hostages.

!!Puzo slipped in the pure fiction of the Bo family, into his story of a fictional Mafia family, headed by Vito Corleone, The Godfather!!
That was no fiction!

True Pete Puzo's research probably reflected that aspects in some way.

I think, from what I remember, they had a garbage hauling business during the peace time

I reckon it is all about guaranteeing the safety of their Guest. I don't think they hire hostages for themselves

So depending on the circumstances, I reckon, Vito would hire the hostage for the other family because he is the formidable, bigger threat same as Sollozzo did for civilian Michael

backfired plans he was not forced into as we debated, in Was Michael a tragic figure? thread,

Kay
Michael seeking Kay out, his horror of a wife
Bet hypocrite Kay never told Anthony about his unborn brother she murdered

Frankie Pentangeli
It was indeed unbecoming of a Don
1. Michael “undercut Pentangeli through his support of the Rosato Brothers” against his own man
2. Michael gave his loyalty to a Jew [Roth] before his own blood
3. Michael asked Pentangeli to lay down - settle these troubles - to the Rosato Brothers who spit right in Pentangeli's face
4. Michael threw Pentangeli [good old man -- who was loyal to Vito, Michael's father and to Michael, for years] under the bus
5. then abandonment of his 'dead' capo's family

Fredo
no excuse whatsoever for “Fredo’s betrayal;” for something in it for me -- on my own, the Donship
Nevertheless Michael could have spared Fredo

Mary
Michael surrounded by his family, was parading himself and his family in public, so out in the open even at the steps of the Opera house in Sicily, in the night, in full view of anyone lurking knowing Mosca, the assassin who had never failed thus far, was contracted to murder him and that Mosca had already murdered Don Tommasino Go figure!