There is Michael Franzese similar to Michael Corleone, college dropout turned gangster but his life was colorful not legitimate!

I don't think there was any older brother stepped over situation in real life

let him banging cocktail waitresses two at a time!

You are not wrong! Capri the best option for Fredo, in hind sight, make a deal with Greene and let Fredo continue banging cocktail waitresses two at a time!

Whilst Vito could have guided, mentored, nurtured and embraced Fredo, Fredo still would have been a bad Don not dissimilar to Sonny for different reasons, nothing but the Donship would have sufficed for Fredo as we saw during Fredo's boathouse outburst

Perhaps some sort of consigliere role - an elder statesman - under the watchful eye of Tom....

This might, just might work Something important not just a living

a man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man – Vito take note!

Vito not foreseeing the problems that arose in giving “I could be doing a lot more for the Family” Carlo, a living, not something important

Vito had such contempt for Carlo yet let Carlo marry his only daughter?
Then treat Carlo like an outcast “Give him a living but never discuss the Family business with him”

Vito doing nothing when disgruntled Carlo was beating up Connie even when Connie was pregnant
Vito was instrumental in Sonny getting killed, rushing to Connie's aid due to Vito's inaction

What could Vito have done to steer his children away from a life of crime, for them to try and live as normal lives as possible instead of always having to kill or be killed

He could have handed over the business to Clemenza and Tessio with tribute kicked up to him
Still wealth beyond, with all the money laundered through Genco Olive Oil and stashed away, in addition to the tribute pouring in

Just my opinion,but as we know,Tessio is an ambitious snake.
So what's to stop Clemenza and Tessio ,after being given control of the Corleone Business from telling Vito "what tribute?"
Without his crew,which would now belong to 2 outsiders,Vito has no choice but to shut up and take it,especially since his kids have been steered away from the rackets.
He goes full time in the olive oil business and his legitimate investments for income.
Then a couple years goes by,and Tessio whacks his "good friend" Clemenza to gain sole control of the whole shebang.

True Lou but Tessio wouldn't dare try anything with Luca around

Well, Vito needs him He helps him get in and out of the car. Carry his briefcase

My take, for what it is worth!
Tessio was protecting his territories rather than being "an ambitious snake"

Tessio should have had more faith in his Don/s and trusted their judgement

I believe, Tessio only became a "snake" because Tessio felt Michael would be no good as Don even though Michael kept reassuring including -
always smarter! Tessio jumped what he thought was the Corleones' sinking ship

a la Michael / Pentangeli It could work....

• There is much we can learn from the Great man, Mr Roth [apart from the Pentangeli set up!]

"Something in it for me"
Sure thing Evita and Turnbull, getting rid of Michael was indeed Roth's overarching goal
However “and to blame it on Pentangeli” was Roth's Achilles heel


I believe Roth was not a greedy man but of course if the Corleones' business fell into Roth's lap, Roth will take it Bonus!

At Anthony's partyand the reason, nobody tried to machine gun Roth's bedroom!

Again,just speculation on my part,but once Clem and Tess decided to double cross Vito, Luca would have been the first to go.
They were both street smart and ruthless enough to understand that you always take out the strongest,most loyal bodyguard before you make a move on a Boss.

Valid point Lou if Luca is taken out, you are right, they're in a lot of trouble, believe you. A lot of trouble.

no time for family too busy with business

Whilst doing a Search for something, I stumbled across the below thread and Turnbull's post of 27 July 2006
Looks like nothing much has changed!

could some please like give me a list of characters to real life mobsters
No wonder Tessio was not impressed!

Interesting So only the Corleones had their son as father’s successor

I wonder where Puzo got this idea of father-son successor if "No son ever succeeded his father as Don" [Godfather] "much less surpassed his father" [Godfather Part 2 and perhaps 3] in real Life

I don't think it's a mafia novel at heart. With Stracci and Cuneo placed away from New York City and minimized to almost nothing, what you have are three warring kingdoms set against a mafia backdrop.

I agree that GF Trilogy and the novel are not about the Mafia per se. I put it a bit differently: GF is a saga about a family, with the Mafia as a defining milieu. To make an analogy: "Gone With the Wind" isn't a Civil War movie and novel per se, it's a saga about a family with the Civil War as a defining milieu.

according to Wikipedia
The Godfather is a crime novel by American author Mario Puzo. Originally published in 1969 by G. P. Putnam's Sons, the novel details the story of a fictional Mafia family in New York City (and Long Island), headed by Vito Corleone, the Godfather. The novel covers the years 1945 to 1955 and includes the back story of Vito Corleone from early childhood to adulthood.

The first in a series of novels, The Godfather is noteworthy for introducing Italian words like consigliere, caporegime, Cosa Nostra, and omertà to an English-speaking audience. It inspired a 1972 film of the same name. Two film sequels, including new contributions by Puzo himself, were made in 1974 and 1990.

The Corleone family, one of the Five Families of the New York Mafia, fights the other four families in a brutal war in the years after World War II.

Fredo's Life and Treatment
Exactly Lou Fredo was dismissed as amounting to nothing, all his life, pretty much by everyone indeed
"Fredo had nothing from the get-go" because poor Fredo was never given the chance Boy, oh, Boy didn't Fredo show us all?!

• What did Vito do, to guide, mentor, nurture and embrace his different sons?

Vito's fatherly views! of his sons – Thanks! Pop

Fish tank scene:

Garden scene:

When Michael survived and came back, he could have had a "legitimate future" but Vito dragged him into the criminal business

Vito could have retired, and handed over the reins of the Family then, cut their losses and walked away from Mafia, leaving Clemenza and Tessio in charge but he didn't because he wanted, needed the Corleone family reputation, standing, history etc. to be restored, leaving a murderous legacy for Michael even if it meant dragging his never wanted this for you son as Mob Boss

Fredo's Life and Treatment
Ref: Turnbull, Don Cardi, Lou_Para and Evita's 21 August 2022 posts Page 2

• If Michael had been killed in the car bomb in Sicily

Spot on! no matter what, settle all Family business

Whilst Vito would have been "weakened by the shooting and devastated by the loss of two sons" the Corleones' muscle even without Luca Brasi, still formidable with Clemenza and Tessio's crew full strength

My take, for what it is worth!
Vito retains control of the "Olive Oil Business" drinking wine and growing tomatoes
Don Clemenza and Don Tessio kick up monetary tribute

Whilst nothing happens to Carlo as long as Vito's alive because nice guy! Vito won't make his daughter a widow [leave his dirty work for others like he did for Michael to make his sister a widow] Carlo has to answer for Sonny

I think that it's a premise of both the book and at least the first movie that the sons' qualities are inborn. Michael is not just rational - he's representative of the rational man. He's both guided and bound by his intellect. Likewise, Sonny does his emotional things because he's emotional by nature.

I'll submit that Fredo represents the physical man in the novel. Feed him, sex him, and he's happy. Pointedly, he actually does pretty well for himself in the novel, as he's alive at the end and has a "legitimate" job. Coppola changes that Freddy into the first movie's Fredo, and endows him with his father's "sweet nature." Having assigned Fredo that role, Coppola seems to apply the rule of "nice guys finish last" to him, and just knocks him around for three hours.

True Pete Feed him, sex him, just don't step over for his kid brother and he's happy.

Would beaten and weakened Vito still retain his police/political contacts?
You see -- all these people are business men, their loyalty is based on that

If Michael had been killed in the car bomb, would Barzini still chisel Corleone territories?

Tess and Clem hate that goddamn Barzini! can't see them operating under Barzini's thumb
He also would have been suspicious it was a plot by Vito (a la Luca/Tattaglia) to suss out Barz's intentions


Don't know Lou He left the legitimacy burden for Michael
I work my whole life, I don't apologize, to take care of my family. And I refused -- to be a fool -- dancing on the string, held by all those -- bigshots. I don't apologize -- that's my life --

Murderous Vito "sweet nature." Murdering his brother Fredo "nice guy

One of the reasons that Vito accumulated great police and political power was that they regarded gambling as a "harmless vice," which made it easy for them to accept bribes to look the other way. Drugs, on the other hand, was "a dirty business,"
Vito also had the unions--a great source of votes and big contributions for politicians. As long as he tetained both rackets, he'd have his cops and politicians eating out of his hand.

Good point they regarded gambling as a "harmless vice,"
Wouldn't all that change when he agreed to provide political protection for "a dirty business,"

Why did Barzini try to kill Michael in Sicily? The killing wouldn't go unavenged

That's why Vito said no to Sol initially- that his "friends in politics wouldn't be friendly very long if they knew my business was drugs." The novel provides more detail: Sol said at the meeting that he'd use operatives with clean records "so it will be logical for judges to give light sentences." And, after the Commission meeting, Vito told Tom that if the families used "real snowbirds" (meaning guys with drugs arrests) "we'll throw up our hands and say there's nothing we can do" (or some words to that effect). IMO, both Sol and Vito were deluding themselves about drug operatives with "clean records" --greed trumps restraint and common sense every time.




Perhaps he tried to have Michael killed to prevent Michael from eventually avenging Sonny's murder. Then you might ask, why did Barzini agree not to interfere with Michael's return to the US? Because he and the other Dons were greedy for the drugs profits Vito's political protection would open up. They deluded themselves into believing that Michael--who had already shown his stuff by killing Sol and Mac--wouldn't be a threat to them. Greed trumps caution every time.

After getting what they wanted all along, why chisel Corleone territories?

Barzini, Tattaglia, Cuneo, Stracci, Greene killing did go unavenged