The Europeans created the modern, civilized society.
Does anyone think the native americans would of made a modern ship in the 1400’s and sailed across the sea to find Spain? No !
Without Columbus, there would be no Latino’s.

TY Lenox. One million percent true. Yet, "some people" wanna try and denounce him, and the europeans, for what they accomplished. Its called jealousy, envy, stupidity, and ignorance. Plain and simple!

Without Europe, there would have been NO development in the America. Hell, for that matter it wouldn't even be called America. Which of course is named after the great visionary and explorer, Americo Vespucci.

Its actually comical what these ignoramuses try and put forth and attempt to make people swallow.

NYMAFIA, you said fags in the same way it was used growing up. God forbid the wrong asshole hears you say that today, you're a domestic terrorist. Hopefully all of these traditions make a comeback when the pendulum comes back full swing.

I have a question for you guys and please note that I am in no way, shape or form trying to be rude or come across as an asshole.

I know that a lot of Americans don't like immigration of any kind happening in the 21st century (where hard working people want to move to the US to get a better life for themselves) but they're being told to go back to their own countries and whatnot.

NYMAFIA, given what you've mentioned how America was built on the backs of immigrants, is that not a bit hypocritical? I'm not saying that any of you guys feel that way, but in Europe, a lot of Americans are always painted that way (not going to lie, mainly Republicans).

Once again, I'm not trying to be rude, call anyone here out or say that you guys are hypocrites, I'm just genuinely curious about this point of view since I'm not an American and I don't really know many Americans.

This is called hypocrisy, even now that Italy has become a land of immigration, many scream "go home" and then hire immigrants and pay them little and make them work 12-14 hours a day, 7 days a week.
America was built by immigrants that made jobs that wasp doesnt want to do.As today the more dangerous and worst payed jobs are done by latinos or other immigrants. And people still scream "Go Home".

Let us not forget it was the treatment of newly arriving Italian immigrants by the Dutch, English, German and Irish immigrants who had arrived in previous decades, that promoted the rise of the Mafia in the US. Sadly, in this country one does not become American until you join in with previous immigrants to denigrate the most newly arrived immigrants, except in some cases those discriminated against were actually here before any immigrants, such as native Americans and Mexicans. In fact, at one point half of the US was actually named Mexico which Spain sold to Fance who sold it to the US in the Louisiana Purchase. Hmmmm, Spain sold half the US to France who sold it to the US, how the hell did that work? They have a few outposts in millions of square miles and claim it and all indigenous people within it as theirs, really how the fuck did that work?
And for the record, Native Americans were not defeated militarily, it was through treaties with the American Government, of which every single one was broken by the US, that enabled conquest of the American Indians. The American Constitution was inspired by the Iroquois Confederacy which is the oldest established democracy in the world and since there were no contemporary democracies in Europe, the Iroquois Confederacy became the inspiration for the founding fathers.
To single out Columbus as the perpetrator of the cultural changes that occurred as a result of the interaction between the Old World and the New World, is to ignore the movement of different cultures in the world previously, such as the conquest of Judea by the Egyptians and then Rome and the enslavement of the Jews. It is man's nature to have conflict and to conquer and enslave other men, this has been repeated over and over in the course of the world's history.
American Indians were in Europe, 500 years before Columbus arrived in Hispaniola and without their help, immigrants like the Pilgrims never would have endured the harsh conditions they encountered. The reward for their help was to be exposed to diseases they had no immunity to resulting in pandemics which make the current one look like a joke.
As Furio pointed out above, it is the part of hypocrisy of this country to discriminate against the newest arrived immigrants by the older immigrants, that's just the way it is. Who told you life was fair anyway?

That was an excellent explanation CNote. Bravo!

Man, by his nature, has always looked to dominate other men. Especially back then. To denigrate Columbus and try and make him the scapegoat for everything that went on in the New World is ludicrous, and is morally and historically wrong.

One question for you CNote. You say that the American Constitution was drawn and inspired from the Iroquois Confederacy. But wasn't Old Rome a "Democracy" also? Why would the newly formed US Government have to draw from Iroquois? I always thought our Constitution was inspired by Europe and the Roman Empire?

Others say the oldest "recognized" democracies were formed in India, Finland, and Greece?
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Also, I personally take no issue whatsoever with new immigrants arriving in this country. I welcome everyone. As you say, our USA was built from immigrants. ALL of our relatives and forefathers were immigrants at one time. As they say, "Whats good for the goose is good for the gander."

My only issue is when I see these newly arrived immigrants acting in a negative tone and start attacking OUR established history, forefathers, statues, traditions, parades, and other signs of our history. And want to 'rewrite' OUR country's history to suit them.

THAT I do not accept. I know when my grandfathers and grandmothers first came to America, they acted humble, respectful, and were soooo thrilled to even be here, in "America," that they accepted the good and bad and made a proud life for themselves.

Thats despite facing tremendous prejudice and hardships. In those days they had NO "welfare system" to help out, NO health care for your family, no government subsidies, etc, etc. They stood up on their own two feet and broke their asses to make it....and never so much as made a 'peep' to anybody.

They were too proud a people for that.

Today, these new immigrants get a lot of help from the G, and still cry foul (some, not all), and wanna complain left and right too! Like its fucking coming to them. That I don't appreciate.

But that said, regardless of where new immigrants come from, I have no problem with new immigration in an of itself.

Cnote,if they weren't defeat by US army I doubt that Native Americans would accepted voluntarily to be confined to the reserves.
They fought but the army had machineguns while they had only rifles.
For sure there very Americans was the redskins and the others was all immigrants,before from Britains and after from all the worlds.
That led to 2 extrems: the "politically correct" and the White Power but are are wrong.

Greece and Rome were the original democracies but the founding fathers were looking for contemporary democracies to work off of.
"When the delegates to the Constitutional Convention met in 1787 to debate what form of government the United States should have, there were no contemporary democracies in Europe from which they could draw inspiration. The most democratic forms of government that any of the convention members had personally encountered were those of Native American nations. Of particular interest was the Iroquois Confederacy, which historians have argued wielded a significant influence on the U.S. Constitution."
https://www.history.com/news/iroquois-confederacy-influence-us-constitution

Furio, boss man, the conquest of the American Indians took over a hundred years and the first conflicts were with muskets and hand to hand combat. Most people think of the Plains Indians like Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse but their were many great Indian leaders before them like Tecumseh in 1812. I attached a scene from Last of the Mohicans, if you want to view it, so you can better understand the conflict between settlers and natives. The Gatling Gun(machine gun) didn't come out until 1863 but was hardly ever used against the Plains Indians due to their mobility. It was extremely difficult to haul around a heavy galling gun on the dry alkali Plains out west.

you are 100% on the mark with this.....not every kid is going to college and trade schools are excellent preps for tons of students

CNote I'm refferring to the 1800 starting from the indian removal.I'm wrong on the gatling but one count is to fight against the settlers and another against the soldiers.The indian natives rebelled against the confinement in the reserves but in the end they had to give up.

You aren't "wrong" just had the time off a bit. This isn't about who is right and who is wrong and I'm not trying to prove you or anyone else wrong. You're extremely intelligent and the fact that you know anything about another country's history is a testament to that. We're just having a discussion to better understand the course of events that lead to formation of the US and eventually the American Mafia, no?
This is why the American Indians were defeated in the end, their food source was eliminated to the point of extinction.

Instead of Hop-A-Long Cassidy, or The Lone Ranger and his loyal sidekick, Tonto.....Once the Mafia came to this country it became Hop-A-Long-Che-Sedicci...... and The "Loan Aranger" and his loyal sidekick, Turiddo. LOL

Just a little bit of Italian Mafia humor there for your listening pleasure!

Me in front of La Fontana di Trevi, c.1973

Completely agree with you.