If you read back stories (decades ago) on Capeci's Gangland you'll see documentation about his betrayal of Campione, Vanasco, and others He also testified against his fathers old friend Norby Walters, before the U.S. Senate about gas rackets, Russians, boxing and sports bribery, etc., etc. (thats public)

As far as "available documentation" of his words and 302s to FBI, and private information he provided the feds and local LE behind closed doors you and I will NEVER see that. No informants total debriefings are made public (ever)!

But I can assure you that the bosses of the Five Families (and most everybody else who he talked about in private talks with the law) did see his words on paper. NOBODY was privy to all his words except bosses of the Genovese crew who allegedly had gotten the 'manuscript' of his revelations. They in turn called in others as need be to try and warn 'friends' accordingly.

Franzese got off easier because for the most part he was a white color criminal, and he did give a few people up. He tried to cut it both ways, but he wrote a book about the mafia way back before almost anyone ( A few exceptions) then followed i tup with another book on the mafia. Gravano is a way worse rat. He also was very violent, even compared to others, Gravano turned out to have been more violent than Gotti or Locascio who the government put away while giving Gravano a sweetheart deal. If anyone wants to say "A rat is a rat, they are all the same" fine. I have a different view. I think both Gravano and Franzese do lie, and Franzese may lie more.

Remember also that by his 'turning' it weakened the moral of others. and helped to create other cooperators. Especially back in the mid-1980s when becoming a rat was a rarity by comparison to today.

The FBI loved every minute of it. They used him to say.... "See what Michael did"

He helped to open the floodgates for them. His words and actions were used to convince others to do the same (or face the consequences). They used what he told them to scare others with that new found knowledge.

Similar to what DiLeonardo and Gravano did a few years later. And as well. But he was one of the first.

I agree with you on that point. He did.

There is NO comparison between Franzese and Gravano as far as modus operandi. Sammy was a born killer with 19 under his belt. A very treacherous individual. Franzese is also a very treacherous individual, but in a different fashion. He used a pen and his words to rob you.

Both are rats. But Gravano was way more devastating to the convictions of guys. From bosses on down. He was underboss, as opposed to a simple soldier with limited knowledge. so that makes sense.

Franzese did stay on the straight and narrow afterwards. Sammy didn't. another major difference. But both are rats. both are lairs, etc. It just goes with the territory.

Fair enough, but have you heard from sources close to those bosses that Franzese's information was extensive?



According to Sammy, he only pulled the trigger once. He helped plan a lot of hits. As far as Franzese goes, I have heard that he was involved in more than one murder. He tries to play the nice guy card, but his conscience definitely bothers him. The money he made from Champagne Larry's vacation to Belize was astronomical.

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The answer to your first question is Yes! Multiple guys from NY spoke of this. And again (you and I were not there), but from what I would assume he may have been peripherally involved in one to 'qualify' so to speak. But if thats the case IMO he was blocks away in a crash car at best. A 'high bleacher' so to speak. As far as Champagne Larry as you say, anything in this world is possible right? Who knows?

I do think Michael Franzese made his bones for sure; and I do feel there's indeed a more than probable chance he got more than one guy whacked.

He definitely plays the nice guy card - and I got a feeling that in a direct conversation he's a friendly guy more often than he's not - but he was a made man from an at the time very violent family who was involved in multibillion rackets. Violence comes with the territory.

There's no denying Franzese has always been a very smart and sharp guy and he still is.

You don't have a clue to what you're talking about. Maybe get a subscription to NY times and Newspapers.com and research for 20 years and we might can talk. Mike's prison term was a plea deal YEARS BEFORE he even talked to the Feds. And it wasn't no 4 years, he got violated twice and sent back to Prison AFTER he talked to them and have them 12 hours worth of information over 3 days. So why they sending him back to Prison AFTER he cooperated? Because he gave them shit. Think the Feds said "Hey Mike we appreciate you putting fucking Frankie Camp in jail for 2 years, you're free to live your life now"?

Colonel, as I said earlier "with all do respect" you happen to be dead wrong on this one!

Michael's deal with the feds dovetailed perfectly with his 'back to back' federal and state arrests (3-4 cases in a row) around the mid-80s or so. 1984-1985-1986. As far as I know he was never a rat in earlier years. But the deal he got (10 years - which by the way he NEVER served, and that whopping money fine) we in direct correlation to his turning rat at that time.

I think he was actually behind bars less than a year. And that was only for show, and while he was constantly being debriefed by the feds. So even behind bars, he was being pulled out of jail for conversations and 302s, etc. What a fucking joke!

10 Years on paper sounded decent (although he probably would have pulled 20 years or better for those frauds if it had been on the up and up). But he had ALREADY made his deal. Thats why he was sent to Terminal Island, CA., to serve his term. Far away from the prying eyes of fellow wise guys, and far away from potential danger if they found out he was cooperating.

Only months after he was supposed in prison, I think it was CBS or NBC did an undercover television documentary on him. They photographed him driving around in a white convertible Cadillac Eldorado on Los Angeles streets. It was on national TV for all to see. They also followed him to a beautiful leased home he was living in at the time (all this while he was supposed to be in prison serving his sentence). He was NOT. He was free and living his life.

It caused a major embarrassment for the feds, and exposed Franzese as a cooperator who's associates were all currently serving prison time on cases he was a defendant in, yet the "their boss" Michael Franzese was free as a bird. Their fearless leader had sold them all down the drain and used their jail terms to help skate from his own sentence.

From THAT moment on, everybody started to understand that he was a stone rat! And after the cat was out of the bag he just admitted it, went into hiding, and then started publicly giving testimony.

His father was broken in rank and 'shelved,' stripped of his rackets and activities, and the Franzese name became mud. Only in later years did Sonny redeem himself because he was as stand-up as they come. Michael had basically ruined the family name.

That is the truth. Period!!!

And any bullshit to the contrary is just that.

From 1986 forward, he was an informer who helped the feds in numerous ways. More than is even publicly known as I said earlier.

PS: and to address your statement "violated twice and sent back to prison".... that was because he was trying to fuck the feds out of the $15,000,000 fines/restitution he had promised them as part of his deal. So they threw him back in the jug several times to shake him up and squeeze him for money. Which I suspect he ended up coughing up at some point. He tried screwing them also for the money he promised. that's why they jailed him. NOT because he was 'standing up' and not ratting. Quite the contrary!

He served 4 years on the gas case young fella...They sent him back to prison because he violated his parole you buffoon...What do you think rats have a free pass the rest of their lives ??

Again, he didn't just them Frankie Camp you naive fool !!

Go back to thinking that he conned them and pay your monthly fee to be in his crew on line you naive clown !!

Show me the NY Times article where they say Franzese conned the government at sentencing lol

According to you, Franzese was ready to do his 100 years but instead, he put it all on the line and gambled and conned his way out to a lighter sentence...That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard here, and I've heard some doozies !!

IMO, after being 'outed' as a rat, he even tried damage control by having a few friendly feds go along with the program and say that Michael was so smart, he really didn't give up anything of value, and hasn't paid his heavy fine. To try and show what a shrewd stand up guy he was in the eyes of other street guys to deflect suspicion from him. But eventually the cat was out of the bag.

But the reality was much, much different. He paid them ALL the millions in fines and restitution he had owed them. And by providing extensive info and paying extensive monies he was able to buy his freedom. Off the backs of others I might add.

After so many decades (4 to be exact), most everybody involved, or with true knowledge on him, is either dead or retired like Carmine Persico and others. And it allows him (and other rats like him such as Gravano, DiLeonardo, etc., etc) to try and rewrite their history so as to paint them in a better light.

Frank Cullotta once called himself a rat...Then after seeing 600,000 suckers buying Franzese's baloney, changed his tune and all of a sudden he wasn't a rat anymore, he was a cooperating witness, only testifying in crimes he was involved in etc...

"There's a sucker born every minute"

P. T. Barnum

Correct!..... and as the old saying goes, and I'll finish it for you, "There's a sucker born every minute, and two to take him!" Lol

I’m pretty sure Michael Franzese payed a minuscule percentage of his fines...less than 10%

From Gangland News

Michael Franzese, the Yuppie Don who quit the mob in the late 1980s and now makes a living talking about it, had nearly 10 million good reasons to chuckle last week when he told Gang Land that he hoped to be to able pay his restitution and fine during his lifetime.

Franzese, 52, was ordered to make restitution of $10 million and pay a $35,000 fine when he pleaded guilty 20 years ago. According to court records, Franzese owes $9,972,120 in restitution and fines, plus interest that Gang Land couldn’t begin to try to calculate.

At his set rate of $500 a month, Franzese would have to live another 1666 years – give or take a few – to pay it off. That’s even longer than Methuselah, the legendary biblical figure, or the Yuppie Don’s legendary old man, Colombo underboss John (Sonny) Franzese, who’s still trucking at 89.

Meanwhile, Manhattan U.S. Attorney Michael Garcia is still trying to decide when and how best to dispose of the pending racketeering charges against mob prince John (Junior) Gotti, whose third trial stemming from the 1992 shooting of Curtis Sliwa ended in a mistrial two weeks ago.

I have to disagree with you here and I'll prove you are mistaken. I'll tell you what. You ask a question first and then I'll answer. If you take a plea deal for 10 years in 85 you are gonna get parole in 4. It was before the Bail reform act of 1984 which was when his pattern of racketeering started . I'll go first with my question. Where is your evidence of a deal between Franzese and th Feds when Mike started talking on 1989? What did the Feds promise mike for his information?

Let's go with your false narrative. Besides the whopping 2.5 years Frank Camp did (even though Franzese didn't testify against him or any made members) what in his 12 hours of talking to the FBI brought a case against the Colombo Family? Let's says versus the 30 years prior that Scarpa was talking to them? I'll wait for your reply young man. I'll let you in on a secret, 302s aren't allowed in testimony.

Who cares what Rats to refer to themselves as. Culotta, Franzese, Gravano, Jr Gotti are all rats. Nitpicking is just confirmation bias on your part. Gravano did the most damage. Cullota didn't do hardly any. Franzese is next to doing any and Jr Gotti did nothing in anyone being convicted. Doesn't mean they all weren't rats. You guys are being overzealous and kind of losing the whole point of the matter.

Better check your dates. You falling for that fake news and I'm about to bust your ass on that post you just made about him cruising in
Don't you dare delete this post. I'm going into my file cabinet tomorrow and gonna show just how misinformed you are. 1986? You're way off.the convertiblewhite El dorado? Hahaha that was a 1984 video. Jesus I thought you knew better

Holy shit. A news video from 1986 showing a clip from Mike Franzese on 1984 an you think it's Franzese riding around in a white Convertible in 86 while he is in prison being denied bail? You also need a NY Times subscription, a Newspapers.com subscription, a Mary Ferrell subscription and access to Federal and State prison records. What the fuck are you guys basing your research off of? google search? Wikipedia?

Holy shit Mike Franzese has been in jail and denied bail since December 23rd1985

https://www.newspapers.com/image/722191184/?terms=Michael%20franzese&match=1

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#1: you are correct/and incorrect/ Under the old law if you received a 10 year bid, you did a minimum of 1/3 and a maximum of 2/3s of your given sentence. ANYBODY who had OC stamped on his jacket never did 1/3. They always maxed out at 2/3s. That means he'd have done 6.6 years in prison on 10. He NEVER did 6.6 years. He never even did the full 1/3. #2: If you had read my previous posts you'd have realized I answered this already. Gigante had received the FULL transcripts of his debriefings and shared them with the other bosses. FACT! (how do I know?) because both my cousin and my uncle were called in to view them (AND I was told about it as soon as they got back home). That was in 1987-88 or so. BUT we had already gotten word that he had gone bad. This is just when CHIN received hold of the documents. You think you're gonna find THAT floating around somewhere on cyber space? I doubt it.

#1: He spoke to the feds on numerous occasions. not just "12 hours" as you say. #2: Campione AND Vanasco were both put on the spot by him, and copped out because they were afraid the feds would fly him in to testify against them on the stand.

Again, you DIDN'T read what I wrote (or just choose to ignore it to try and make your case). He gave extensive info on numerous guys. Background, detailed info, and in many cases gave the feds a roadmap so to speak to know who to approach to turn rat in future weeks and months, who to pressure with info so they'd cave, etc., etc. to make future cases and turn future guys rats.

And yes, nobody here is saying that Franzese even came close to the level of corruption, or gave informant info for as long, or as important, as Scarpa. Definitely not! But he's still a major rat!

Now I have a pointed question for you. Why in the hell are you "defending" such a blatant rat as Franzese? If I didn't know better I'd think you were partial to him for some reason. Or are trying to protect his image. Why is that Colonel? Why are you so defensive when it comes to Franzese?

And lastly, please don't try and be condescending to me of all people. OK? I don't need you explaining to me about 302s. I grew up with them. Long before you ever heard of the term. Let's keep the conversation respectful shall we?

NO bias. We just call it as it is! Scarpa, Gravano, D'Arco, Casso, etc., all these guys are in another league. Franzese never had to go that deep and continually testify before he was cut loose from the feds. He made a good deal for himself. Thank God for that he didn't testify more! But he still hurt guys. And he's still a ranked rat in the scheme of things. He turned early. Years before most other guys did. So the feds creamed their pants to get a big name guy to become a rat. It was a major black eye to Cosa Nostra. Today, he would be under tighter provisions.

And THATS a fact that CANNOT be disputed!

PS: not to insult you on this Colonel. Becasue that is not my goal here. But YOU could never debate me on this. Or at least you could never WIN a debate on this with me. I actually watched the television program with my own eyes of his driving around LA in a white convertible Cadillac. I don't remember if it was CBS, NBC, etc., who broke the story. It may have been "60 Minutes"

Now I would be lying if I said I remember the exact date or year this TV was presented. But it was televised. And all I say here is true. 100%. Remember too that this is going back over 3 decades already. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't remember the exact day, time, channel, or what color shoes I was wearing when I was watching the program. But I personally watched it, as did millions of other Americans on TV.

It had become a scandal and a black eye to the feds because this notorious mobster had 'gamed' them. He was out. He hadn't paid them the whopping fines he was supposed to. And they (the news) exposed Franzese as being free at a time when he was still supposed to be serving even the minimum of his jail term. Why was he NOT behind bars even for the minimum? Because he was working with them.

Also, and this is the straw that will break the elephants back (the elephant is you by the way, in case you haven't figured that out yet). By late 1986-early 1987 I (personally) knew he was a rat. Word was all around the streets of NYC/LI/etc., by then that he had turned. I was told personally by numerous guys (guys who were in the know - so don't even try and go
there). There was even info that by 1988 that his younger brother John had also flipped for the feds and was being debriefed.

THAT is another revelation that 99.9% of the public, chat rooms, mob aficionados, etc., don't know about. John Jr., was already giving info way before it even broke on Gangland, or in the papers. It's known that he worked with the Nassau County Rackets Squad and DA, Queens DA, etc. Besides whatever relationship he later developed with the feds.

No, it was NOT in Newsday or NYDaily News. NO it was not yet on TV or general common knowledge in chat rooms. But everybody 'in the streets' of NY started to find out that Michael (and later his drug addled brother) had turned. Word was quickly being passed through the grapevine and THATS another fact! And yes, I was personally told this by the most reliable of sources. Sources and names that I will not repeat here.

Now Colonel, at the end of the day. Go believe whatever it is that you need to believe. Whatever makes you feel good.

But as far as he goes. It's undeniable and not refutable. He 'turned' very early on. Before the ink even dried on his deal with the feds, he had already gone bad. That is why he got the deal he got in the first place. He was negotiating from the get go. And that is why when guys went to contact him in prison he wasn't available to speak to or see. Why??

Because he wasn't there! Thats why. He was often pulled out of his cell for debriefings, conferences, to fly to see prosecutors and testify before hidden panels, etc. I spend more time in my car than he spent in his jail cell. Lol

Now I'm done with this conversation. We have both expounded on our positions. You are free to continue to believe what you like, or modify you're thinking based upon the new info I have enlightened you with. Thats all up to you pal.

Meanwhile Gravano and Franzese are probably on the phone with each other scripting out their next show. I think Gravano's daughter is in on it, she is the Gravano who first got in on the reality show craze. I tried to watch the show she had 2 years ago about Staten Island, it was a mess. Her kids, their friends, and stupidity. I don't know how far Gravano, the worst rat by far of the past 40 years, and Franzese will go with this scam. If the comments under their video's are real and not 'bot generated or put up by their staff, they have a strong following of crazed supporters.

They released the official trailer this morning. There is a 20 min podcast on Valuetainment where Bet David talks about it. They said they have a ton of hours of conversation between Franzese and Gravano. I guess what I'm trying to wrap my head around is is it going to feel authentic? Or so overly staged/scripted? And are they going to talk about anything different then they already have in their own podcasts?

this is the great white hype..... jerry springer with out punches you guys really think they gonna say they killed more ppl that that already admiteed ,, if so they the feds would open
new murder charges again them ,, so dont expect any new body diigins just expext alot names calling back and forth like childs,,, but yes i will be watching .....by the wat mike nice religion racket ,,,, chargin $ to dumb white kids to stay off the MOB life,,,,,,,your not fooling anyon ewith the religion crap...hey mike how about larry champange seen him around lately....oh my bad thas right you havent seen him,,, beacuse you had your undelings wack him