I always get flamed by David Chase fanboys when I say that “The Sopranos” is now outdated.
Here’s what 95% of today’s American mobsters are really like:

- current era Tony Soprano lives in a triple-mortgaged home;

- he heads a “cowboy” crew of heist men, home invaders and hardcore cons who heist dope dealers;

- he never has any money;

- the money he does have he kicks it up, gambles it or it goes up his nose;

- he’s divorced;

- he’s done at least 5 (probably more, like a dozen) years in the pen;

- he’d rat without blinking if facing serious time;

- at least one of his kids has an opioid addiction;

- he’s doing what he does because he came of age in the drought era of LCN and didn’t have the brains or the legit connections to get out of the guinea ghetto;

- his buddies run poker machines in dive bars, keep books and do poorman’s shy;

- the new “generation” are pumped-up gym rats running sleazy strip joints where they pimp the girls out, handle their own security and deal with nickel-dime ops like slinging benzos and oxys;

- he, his buddies and the youth are constantly getting shook down by the higher ups, the 5% ;

- the higher up 5% is basically royalty: wary, nepotist, smug and loaded. Old enough to have benefited from better times, lucky enough to be born into established dynasties, or smart enough to have married into them;

- links overseas and to Canada are privilegedly limited and a massive headache to keep up with.

Bottom line is that American LCN is grimy as hell. All over the place, not just smaller groups like Philly and Boston. And it looks like things are this way in Canada as well. The gap between them and the US has shrunk exponentially in the last decade alone.

Thanks for that explanation, it makes a lot more sense for outsiders.

Woodbridge and Montreal in Canada from what I’ve been told, you can still find people that are a lot more like ‘mafiosi’ opposed to what you’re explaining.

Hamilton, however, is a dive, with both the Musitanos dead and the ageing Luppinos, those type of ‘mafiosi’ type are basically gone as well.

“ the new “generation” are pumped-up gym rats running sleazy strip joints where they pimp the girls out, handle their own security and deal with nickel-dime ops like slinging benzos and oxys;”

Basically sounds like the bikers in Canada, is there such an overlap between 1%er and the America Mob?

Do you know what 1%ers in Canada the American mob works with, people say the Hells Angels control Canada, so why wouldn’t the 5Families need to deal with them, especially if they operated in ‘their’ country?

The 'prototype' of what a traditional old-time mafioso or racketeer looked like decades back is a far cry from today's 'so-called' mobsters.

From how the dressed and carried themselves, to how they thought, spoke, and acted, is completely alien to what 'passes' for a mob guy nowadays.

Many guys who were technically 'associates' decades ago, were of such a high quality of individual compared to the 'made' guys and even bosses of today, that its a stark contrast in quality and ability.

Many "associates" of yesteryear were more capable and of a better quality (for lack of a better term), than many of the soldiers, capos, and bosses of today. Hence, the current state of the mob.

It’s exactly was Andrea Scoppa is talking about in his book, if this is the trend, will the bikers surpass the mob in America, like it apparently has in Canada?

I personally never see that occurring in Europe.

Absolutely. There are thousands of guys who operated under a flag who’s name would never show up in a place like this. And most of them were stand up guys all the way.

Hells Angels control Canada? Italian mafia is still quite powerful in the Canadian east coast or no? I mean from what I heard in the GTA area Ndrangheta is stronger than Hells Angles and in Montreal the mafia was weakened by the internal feud in the recent decade but still a considerable force. American LCN will work with any of these groups before having anything to do with the bikers I think.

I have to agree with you, the modern American Mafia stopped resembling anything like The Sopranos since the early 2000s, especially since Massino flipped. It's a complete shit show now.

So basically the modern LCN had become more and more like your average street gangs?

The Commission Trial was obviously the turning point in a lot of ways. The Mob was still powerful fir the rest of the 80’s and into the early 90’s but the structure had been damaged. The Sopranos took place from 98-2006 and even at that point the mob was much weaker than they used to be. Obviously they they overdramatized a lot of things in the Sopranos in particular the amount of killing occurs g at that period as well as Jersey’s strength

Arrest in Torretta few days ago prove that links still exist , especially with Gambinos , some of Gambinos traveled to Sicily. But they did ask for cocaine once they landed in Sicily.

I've seen enough surveillance photos of the DeCavalcantes to convince me that they did indeed dress that way and were living like that. The thing is that it's NO LONGER that way.

Bonannos have been traveling to Sicily in recent years as well

Interesting thread.

I wouldn’t say that.

The NY5 stand on an undeniable higher pedestal than not only your average street gang, but also a significant number of other criminal organizations in the Tristate area/northeast. Their manpower, connections and diversity of activities keep them extremely relevant.
It’s the percentage of those who make a *great* living through mob activities that has shrunk compared to decades ago. This cannot be unnoticed.
The higher ups I mentioned in my opening post do exist and have the legit connections to make things happen, there’s just much less of them.
The mob “middle class” is the one that suffered the most. They have to hustle for real this time and the booty might not always be worthwhile.
The bottom feeders, on the other hand, have always been animals, nothing really changed there...

Perhaps you could make that argument with certain lower tier families. That said, those small outfits are operating under a larger family (DeCavs under the Gambinos, Philly allegedly under the Genovese) so they can live off and benefit from their handlers’ clout.

As for biker clubs shoving around the American LCN, I don’t think so. Never forget that in Canada (especially Montreal, the Prairies and BC) they have always operated on a higher level than their American “brothers”. America is a much larger playground and I don’t believe that these two criminal subcultures will ever clash as much as it’s happening up north.

I don`t think it's because America is larger. It`s because the mob in Canada plays a big part in international drug trafficking so every criminal organization in the country would have to deal with them. But even then they mostly cooperate and coexist instead of fighting, Ontario and Quebec are actually quite big so there is enough business for both parties.

LCN and outlaw bikers often associate socially, also many Italian-Americans in the 1% clubs.

It’s been stated a couple times on here that the HA are the Top in Canada 🇨🇦, I find it hard to believe as well. I was in Canada right after Rizzuto’s death and all through his incarceration, the Hells Angels I was around and observe were mostly in Ontario. They definitely think and act as if they are #1, they have a bunch of French guys around them all the time, so they definitely give off the vibe that they are in charge.

There was an interesting book written about the province of Ontario, regarding the Outlaw Motorcycle Club, the Hells Angels and the Cops and a war they fought for control of Ontario after the biker war in Quebec. Turns out that the Cops & Hells Angels must of won, now it’s like the Hells Angels and the Cops are on the same team, bikers basically as a whole in Canada 🇨🇦. From my own personal experience that’s the only reason they come off so strong.

I’m in Europe now, practicing my English, I had a serious situation that developed as a result of this in Hamilton in April 2014 that brought me to Montreal in June 2014 (basically same timeline as Verducci and Ducarme Joseph) then, both those places became battlefields, if NYC or any group is working with those type of people hope they consider the above.

Look what happened to the Violis, it sounds like a case of entrapment. What people don’t know is the bikers in Ontario and California which are both HA are involved in setting up the meetings the Violis are getting busted in lol

“ the new “generation” are pumped-up gym rats running sleazy strip joints where they pimp the girls out, handle their own security and deal with nickel-dime ops like slinging benzos and oxys;”

Then I read this an it explains the bikers in Canada to the ‘letter’

There was also the Panepinto issue with the bikers then and the fact the Michael Cudmore was basically HA Hamilton contract killer, who target Saverio Serrano, the son of Diego Serrano, member of the Ndrangheta. As well, as murdered Angelo Musitano, so from what I’ve lived, at least some of those bikers/cops whatevers think they are definitely the Top in that Ecosystem.



I’m not as familiar with America or NYC, but I assumed that the disrespect the mob gets shown by the bikers in Canada, would never happen in the States, probably because of the less likely of clashing.

Prior to John Papalia’s death and the Musitanos incarceration the mob controlled everything in Ontario and Quebec, that money all flowed to the 5 Families. With the Hells Angels and the Cops defeating the Outlaws in Southern Ontario which were very mob friendly, NYC and the families in Canada have been under attack and making a lot less money. Now they say it’s the bikers and their street gangs that ‘tax’ the mob.

Johnny Papalia was with Buffalo. He answered directly to the Todaros...

Which clubs have the most Italians by region?

Because its more simple to join a biker club that a mob family plus more clubs like the Angels control large drug and gambling rings and in some cases even white collar rackets and in prison have more allies and doesn't pay for protection.

Once your made in NY your able to borrow money for between half a point and a point. That should be a guaranteed earn because they can loan it out for 3 points to those who need money in the street quick ... like was said above the middle class really suffered. Even a bum like lefty guns was making 2-3k a week it’s just he was a degenerate gambler that pissed it away but that’s the streets. What’s the old line “streets school us to spend our money foolish”
And if you were making 2k a week 30 years ago your making 1k a week now which isn’t shit in that life especially when you gotta kick up $500 a month and a few thousand at Xmas
But captains are still making atleast 20-30k a month and the bosses are still making millions...

I think another archetype would be:

Born in a family of long mob tradition;

Married with a woman from a same family of long mob tradition;

Made in early age due his father connection;

Inherit his father crew;

Made milions thanks as his crew of white collar racketeers;

Accept long sentences in prison without flip so his sons can continue their road in the mob.

Your pretty much correct on everything. I know a few that your analysis bears truth.

Bikers in Canada have not "surpassed" the various Italian TOC. Italian OC is still number 1 on the food chain in Canada.

And ppl need to understand, the Hells Angels in Quebec (amongst the "strongest" and wealthiest biker groups in the world) are not traditional bikers as you would see in California. Quebec HA are basically French (Canadian) Mafia. Ontario HAs (and Ontario has the highest concentration of bikers in the world, except for maybe Australia now) are not like Quebec HAs. And Ontario HAs have deep respect for Italian TOC.

The current era Tony Soprano does not live in a triple mortgaged home lol. The guys who get made these days are almost all earners. It's no longer about loyalty, honor and respect. It's all about money

I was talking about the East Coast, Pagans, HA and Outlaws.

I don't know about the other clubs, but the Pagans have a significant percentage of Italian members

I think people here get so hung up on attire. Most people wore suits even well into the 90’s. That isn’t the case for people with real jobs anymore and hasn’t been for some time. Why would you expect people that don’t even work for a living to put on business attire while they sip anisette, gorge on food, and talk about getting working peoples’ money into their pockets?!

It's because many of them just look downright bummy. I mean, they don't have to wear suits necessarily, they don't have to be John Gotti everyday but they don't have to be slobs either.

Fair enough (those 3 fat Bonnano guys being drug into arraignment in Fila and Puma attire, not even suits but like cut off sweats with fringe threads hanging off come to mind). They have sort of an urban-redneck motif to them, I feel like.

But remember, these are a fairly slothful people. “Enterprising” and “conniving” though they may be, the lion’s share of gangsters are too fucking lazy to work for a living. I just don’t expect much out of their dress, either.