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Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: OakAsFan] #1013877
06/15/21 02:32 AM
06/15/21 02:32 AM
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DillyDolly Offline OP
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Because bosses like Gambino, Zerilli, Accardo, Trafficante, Tocco, and Lombardo knew better than to taunt the government.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1013878
06/15/21 04:06 AM
06/15/21 04:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by Dwalin2011
Imo it's also interesting that, even though the RICO law was introduced in 1970, it wasn't used against the most important mafia bosses until the 80s, letting guys like Carlo Gambino, Joe Zerilli or Stefano Magaddino basically off the hook until they died, and even in the later period characters like Tony Accardo, Philip Lombardo, Santo Trafficante etc remained untouched or got off with minimum sentences, like Jack Tocco. Quite a selective approach to the mafia issue by whoever was supposed to use RICO against them imo....While flamboyant characters like Gotti went down, the smarter ones with connections to the government and law enforcement were basically left alone, or "dealt with" in a very lazy way.


The reasons is simple. Before the 1980s the directors of FBI was from the Hoover old school that prefer fast indictments that long investigations. In the 1980s when was created the squads for every mob family the things changed.
The Jaguar tapes are a good example: the feds before find a same model of Sal Avellino Jaguar and start to practice forcing the door, disassemble the radio and connect the bug to the battery and close everything again so Avellino can understood nothing.
The first time Avellino went to holiday,at his return the bug consumed the car battery and the feds removed the bug at the last minute and replaced it even was raining and there was the risk that Avellino can see the wet car seats.

And after all,the feds with cars with an antennas must follow the Jaguar for a clear recording.

And this because the RICO needs many proofs and evidences and the LE must spendmany time (months or years) for made a good Rico case.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1013881
06/15/21 07:53 AM
06/15/21 07:53 AM
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The primary reason (as has been admitted by the feds) for not having utilized the Rico laws in earlier years, although Rico was formed in the year 1970, is because prosecutors were largely unfamiliar with its complex rules and structure. They basically avoided it because they did not understand the complexity of it.

But by the late 1970s prosecutors in several jurisdictions decided to delve into it and attempted get a handle on its use. After several successful prosecutions they realized how exceptionally valuable Rico could be to them as they started to understand how to apply it.

By the early 1980s it was being used more regularly. From the point in time it has become the primary tool used to dismantle criminal organizations (LCN primarily), as well as, their primary tool to strip illicit money from those same people.

PS: at its core, Rico is largely unconstitutional. Yet, the FBI, federal prosecutors, as well as magistrates and judges, close their eyes to this in order to 'beat' the Mafia. When these convictions go before the appeals courts the convictions are generally rubber-stamped by those panels as well.

It is a lopsided 'game' that the U.S. Government had to employ in order to disrupt the power of LCN. Otherwise you would still have wise guys as powerful as they have always been since the 1920s. It was the beginning of the end of power.

If you notice the enactment of Rico correlates with the destruction of the Mafia. It's heavy-handed penal laws has led to the plethora of stool pigeons into witness protection, relocation; stripping of labor unions, business and cartel infiltration and domination, nationwide rackets, asset seizure, draconian sentences, etc. Many states even followed suit and created their own 'state' version of Rico.

G.Robert Blakey is the 'creator' of it. He was commissioned to close all 'loopholes' in any given law so the G would have the upper hand, and regardless of its legality or illegality, Rico is here to stay.

The G threw the constitution went out the window to win so to speak. And it took fifty years more, but they largely did win because today LCN is a shell of its former self. And its very foundation is cracked to its core....and it ain't coming back.

Nowadays prosecutors are absolutely in love with Rico. It allows them 'carte blanche' and they rarely worry about their use of it being deemed inappropriate by the courts. It basically allows them to charge anybody with anything. They use it against everyone. It's a dangerous law, and the G gas set a very dangerous precedence with its use. You get in its way? You'll get steamrolled. Any schmuck prosecutor just apply good ole "Rico" and the chances of any defendant winning his case is 'nill'

Prosecutors can literally throw the rest of the hundreds of penal law violations out the window. No more need for a law handbook. They use 1 law; Rico!!!

It is a very bad law IMO.

Last edited by NYMafia; 06/15/21 08:03 AM.
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1013882
06/15/21 08:17 AM
06/15/21 08:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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NYmafia the Rico is like the 41bis and the Italian Supreme Court said that the isolation for long period of time is dangerous but that the 41-bis is the better weapon to isolate the bosses and let the State to force the criminals to cooperate only through the merce of be put in 41 bis.

Anyway the laws are pieces of paper,and stay to the prosecutors to make a good use and the abuse is beyond the corner.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DiLorenzo] #1013883
06/15/21 09:57 AM
06/15/21 09:57 AM
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alicecooper Offline
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Originally Posted by DiLorenzo
Originally Posted by alicecooper
Glad to see some completely baseless claims of racism. Wouldn't be a day in America without it.

Is that what your school teachers are telling you about America, that we're all racist ?? Pretty odd that hundreds of thousands of hispanics from Central America are swimming across rivers to get to the racist United States..

This is by far the best country in the world, and if you think the country's so bad, you're free to leave !!


You're the one who needs a school teacher. See your way to Reading Comprehension 101.

Finish the wall!

Last edited by alicecooper; 06/15/21 09:57 AM.
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: OakAsFan] #1013884
06/15/21 10:32 AM
06/15/21 10:32 AM
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted by OakAsFan
Originally Posted by Dwalin2011
Imo it's also interesting that, even though the RICO law was introduced in 1970, it wasn't used against the most important mafia bosses until the 80s, letting guys like Carlo Gambino, Joe Zerilli or Stefano Magaddino basically off the hook until they died, and even in the later period characters like Tony Accardo, Philip Lombardo, Santo Trafficante etc remained untouched or got off with minimum sentences, like Jack Tocco. Quite a selective approach to the mafia issue by whoever was supposed to use RICO against them imo....While flamboyant characters like Gotti went down, the smarter ones with connections to the government and law enforcement were basically left alone, or "dealt with" in a very lazy way.


You know I'm reading that book Gotham Unbound right now, which looks at each of the big industry rackets the mob was involved in through the 80's and how they were taken down, and there's no chapter about the ports. And the Newark port is still supposedly heavily controlled by the Genovese family.

Anyhow, I've always felt the real reason for Giuliani's anti-mafia crusade was to crush the unions.


That seems to have been a big part of it, the other was to put himself in the spotlight. Mafia cases draw the most attention.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: alicecooper] #1013885
06/15/21 11:41 AM
06/15/21 11:41 AM
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DiLorenzo Offline
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Originally Posted by alicecooper
Originally Posted by DiLorenzo
Originally Posted by alicecooper
Glad to see some completely baseless claims of racism. Wouldn't be a day in America without it.

Is that what your school teachers are telling you about America, that we're all racist ?? Pretty odd that hundreds of thousands of hispanics from Central America are swimming across rivers to get to the racist United States..

This is by far the best country in the world, and if you think the country's so bad, you're free to leave !!


You're the one who needs a school teacher. See your way to Reading Comprehension 101.

Finish the wall!

At least I had a bad hangover, anybody who still likes Alice Cooper should still leave the country !!

Last edited by DiLorenzo; 06/15/21 11:59 AM.
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DiLorenzo] #1013886
06/15/21 01:47 PM
06/15/21 01:47 PM
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alicecooper Offline
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alicecooper  Offline
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Originally Posted by DiLorenzo
Originally Posted by alicecooper
Originally Posted by DiLorenzo
Originally Posted by alicecooper
Glad to see some completely baseless claims of racism. Wouldn't be a day in America without it.

Is that what your school teachers are telling you about America, that we're all racist ?? Pretty odd that hundreds of thousands of hispanics from Central America are swimming across rivers to get to the racist United States..

This is by far the best country in the world, and if you think the country's so bad, you're free to leave !!


You're the one who needs a school teacher. See your way to Reading Comprehension 101.

Finish the wall!

At least I had a bad hangover, anybody who still likes Alice Cooper should still leave the country !!


Lol! I figured alcohol was involved.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1013960
06/16/21 08:56 PM
06/16/21 08:56 PM
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Moe_Tilden Offline
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LOL at how people explain in several ways, in terms a 5-year-old could understand, how RICO isn't prejudiced against Italian people, and yet the usual suspects crawl out of the woodwork with the same trite propaganda.


I invoke my right under the 5th amendment of the United States constitution and decline to answer the question.
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: Moe_Tilden] #1013968
06/16/21 09:35 PM
06/16/21 09:35 PM
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted by Moe_Tilden
LOL at how people explain in several ways, in terms a 5-year-old could understand, how RICO isn't prejudiced against Italian people, and yet the usual suspects crawl out of the woodwork with the same trite propaganda.




A 5-year old could understand that no one said it was prejudiced against Italians, but was it used more against them, which seems to be the case. You never have anything worthwhile to add. No one is using propaganda, you sound like a paranoid kook.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1013970
06/16/21 09:48 PM
06/16/21 09:48 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Back in the days there were only Italians, now there are so many groups. The Russians for example.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: Hollander] #1013971
06/16/21 09:56 PM
06/16/21 09:56 PM
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted by Hollander
Back in the days there were only Italians, now there are so many groups. The Russians for example.


There have always been other groups, especially as you go across the United States. It has also been used against non-ethnic based groups that do a one time scam or crime over a short period of time. Even in Philadelphia or New York there have always been many other ethnic or race based organized groups. RICO was first used in 1980, though it was passed in the 1970's, the reasons for the delay were explained above by NYMafia.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: jace] #1013972
06/16/21 10:11 PM
06/16/21 10:11 PM
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Hollander Offline
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Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by Hollander
Back in the days there were only Italians, now there are so many groups. The Russians for example.


There have always been other groups, especially as you go across the United States. It has also been used against non-ethnic based groups that do a one time scam or crime over a short period of time. Even in Philadelphia or New York there have always been many other ethnic or race based organized groups. RICO was first used in 1980, though it was passed in the 1970's, the reasons for the delay were explained above by NYMafia.


Yes but it was passed in 1970 as a way to prosecute the Italian mafia, later it is used against all kinds of organized crime.


"The king is dead, long live the king!"
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: Hollander] #1013977
06/16/21 11:15 PM
06/16/21 11:15 PM
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alicecooper Offline
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The Mafia was an italian criminal organization. They were great at it, too. So good it took the United States government to bring them down.

Can you hear it? The world's smallest violin playing just for the Italian mafia.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: alicecooper] #1013980
06/17/21 12:32 AM
06/17/21 12:32 AM
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted by alicecooper
The Mafia was an italian criminal organization. They were great at it, too. So good it took the United States government to bring them down.

Can you hear it? The world's smallest violin playing just for the Italian mafia.


No one minds them bringing down the Mafia, it's the problem of such a lopsided law that can be used against any citizen. Also the original question was does it single out Italians over others. Plus, I have to correct you: The Mafia is not an "Italian" organization here, it's Americans who have some Italian ancestry, and their non-Italian associates. I doubt most of them speak Italian or have ever set foot on Italian soil.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: jace] #1013995
06/17/21 10:31 AM
06/17/21 10:31 AM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by alicecooper
The Mafia was an italian criminal organization. They were great at it, too. So good it took the United States government to bring them down.

Can you hear it? The world's smallest violin playing just for the Italian mafia.


No one minds them bringing down the Mafia, it's the problem of such a lopsided law that can be used against any citizen. Also the original question was does it single out Italians over others. Plus, I have to correct you: The Mafia is not an "Italian" organization here, it's Americans who have some Italian ancestry, and their non-Italian associates. I doubt most of them speak Italian or have ever set foot on Italian soil.


Good post. The American Mafia isnt italian from the 1960s when the second generations start to replace people born in italy.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: furio_from_naples] #1013996
06/17/21 12:36 PM
06/17/21 12:36 PM
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DillyDolly Offline OP
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It's still the Italian-American Mafia, they're descendants of Italian immigrants, and people from Italy can still come over here and easily fill the ranks. In fact, with such a sorry Italian-American recruitment pool these days, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually prefer actual Italians from the old country joining their fraternity.

Last edited by DillyDolly; 06/17/21 12:36 PM.
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1013997
06/17/21 02:14 PM
06/17/21 02:14 PM
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naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
It's still the Italian-American Mafia, they're descendants of Italian immigrants, and people from Italy can still come over here and easily fill the ranks. In fact, with such a sorry Italian-American recruitment pool these days, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually prefer actual Italians from the old country joining their fraternity.


I doubt it.The Sicilian mafia lost much of his power,the ndrangheta is the best dog on the scene and won't help the US mafia to fill the ranks and the camorra clans even the small ones had a national if not european diffusion and much important the RICO law is similar to 416 and 41 bis so are finished the times of the america as a paradise for european gangsters.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: furio_from_naples] #1014001
06/17/21 03:37 PM
06/17/21 03:37 PM
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DillyDolly Offline OP
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That's a bunch of fucking bullshit stupid ass motherfucker, Sicilian Mafia is nowhere near finished your shitty ass government can't even capture Matteo Messina Denaro who's been on the run for nearly 30 years and it took them over 40 years to capture Bernardo Provenzano. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, stays on the run for that length of time without enormous political power. And 41 bis isn't even as hard-core as it's been made out to be bosses have been been found to be running their clans even under 41-bis money talks bullshit walks everything is for sale in this world.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1014003
06/17/21 04:37 PM
06/17/21 04:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
That's a bunch of fucking bullshit stupid ass motherfucker, Sicilian Mafia is nowhere near finished your shitty ass government can't even capture Matteo Messina Denaro who's been on the run for nearly 30 years and it took them over 40 years to capture Bernardo Provenzano. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, stays on the run for that length of time without enormous political power. And 41 bis isn't even as hard-core as it's been made out to be bosses have been been found to be running their clans even under 41-bis money talks bullshit walks everything is for sale in this world.


Hey idiot piece of shit,do you know that before the maxi trial for the politicians the mafia doesnt exist,Provenzano was capured 13 y after Riina and Messina Denaro is a ill mobster that was hidden someone if is not dead.
For what you write you deserve to be beaten up,you little piece of shit, you have insulted hundreds of people who gave their lives to serve the Italian state, do you think you know the situation of the mafia for some article read online?
In 2018 they tried to recreate the Commissione provinciale but Settimo Mineo the future capo dei capi was arrested.The Italian State is fighting against the mafia,ndragheta and camorra as it has never done before.
And these brave people don't deserve to be insulted by a louse like you.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1014004
06/17/21 04:52 PM
06/17/21 04:52 PM
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jace Offline
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
That's a bunch of fucking bullshit stupid ass motherfucker, Sicilian Mafia is nowhere near finished your shitty ass government can't even capture Matteo Messina Denaro who's been on the run for nearly 30 years and it took them over 40 years to capture Bernardo Provenzano. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, stays on the run for that length of time without enormous political power. And 41 bis isn't even as hard-core as it's been made out to be bosses have been been found to be running their clans even under 41-bis money talks bullshit walks everything is for sale in this world.



Why so nasty to Furio? He is right this time IMO, and I usually agree with you, but not this time. Also you said above in another post in this topic that Italians can come to America and just join, which is ludicrous. They can't, not like that. Do you live in America? I don't like those who rat, but you are going overboard, you're mad at rats in other countries, and losing your mind over it.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: jace] #1014007
06/17/21 05:25 PM
06/17/21 05:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
Originally Posted by jace
Originally Posted by DillyDolly
That's a bunch of fucking bullshit stupid ass motherfucker, Sicilian Mafia is nowhere near finished your shitty ass government can't even capture Matteo Messina Denaro who's been on the run for nearly 30 years and it took them over 40 years to capture Bernardo Provenzano. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, stays on the run for that length of time without enormous political power. And 41 bis isn't even as hard-core as it's been made out to be bosses have been been found to be running their clans even under 41-bis money talks bullshit walks everything is for sale in this world.



Why so nasty to Furio? He is right this time IMO, and I usually agree with you, but not this time. Also you said above in another post in this topic that Italians can come to America and just join, which is ludicrous. They can't, not like that. Do you live in America? I don't like those who rat, but you are going overboard, you're mad at rats in other countries, and losing your mind over it.


Read again my post,I said the opposite:

I doubt it.The Sicilian mafia lost much of his power,the ndrangheta is the best dog on the scene and won't help the US mafia to fill the ranks and the camorra clans even the small ones had a national if not european diffusion and much important the RICO law is similar to 416 and 41 bis so are finished the times of the america as a paradise for european gangsters.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1014008
06/17/21 06:02 PM
06/17/21 06:02 PM
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Louiebynochi Offline
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Originally Posted by DillyDolly
That's a bunch of fucking bullshit stupid ass motherfucker, Sicilian Mafia is nowhere near finished your shitty ass government can't even capture Matteo Messina Denaro who's been on the run for nearly 30 years and it took them over 40 years to capture Bernardo Provenzano. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY, stays on the run for that length of time without enormous political power. And 41 bis isn't even as hard-core as it's been made out to be bosses have been been found to be running their clans even under 41-bis money talks bullshit walks everything is for sale in this world.



What’s a bunch of fucking bullshit is the role you wanna play on here, you wouldn’t say that shit in the real world. In the real world you would be on a corner giving away “good times” to make money for daddy. Now shut your fa***t ass up and be quiet, men are talking here!


A March 1986 raid on DiBernardo's office seized alleged "child pornography and financial records." As "a result of the Postal Inspectors seizures [a federal prosecutor] is attempting to indict DiBernardo on child pornography violations" according to an FBI memo dated May 20, 1986.
Thousands of pages of FBI Files that document his involvement in Child Porn
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/star-distributors-ltd-46454/
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/0...s-Miporn-investigation-of/7758361252800/
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1526052/united-states-v-dibernardo/
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: furio_from_naples] #1014011
06/17/21 06:08 PM
06/17/21 06:08 PM
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DillyDolly Offline OP
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Those are not brave people Furio, they're Statist scumbags trying to get rid of the competition. Has nothing to do with morals or principles or standards or any of that, the State wants to take the place of the Mafia, they want all the pizzo in the form of "taxes," and they only want the banks loaning out their printed-from-thin-air fiat currency with sky high interest rates. They're just as scummy as the Mafia.

Last edited by DillyDolly; 06/17/21 06:10 PM.
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: Louiebynochi] #1014012
06/17/21 06:10 PM
06/17/21 06:10 PM
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DillyDolly Offline OP
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Fuck you Louiebynochi, piece of shit.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: jace] #1014013
06/17/21 06:14 PM
06/17/21 06:14 PM
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DillyDolly Offline OP
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DillyDolly  Offline OP
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
Jace, I guarantee you that if given the choice between a mobster from Italy who's steeped in traditional Mafia values and knows exactly what the life is really about and some blowhard Italian-American Jersey Shore looking motherfucker from suburban America, I guarantee you that bosses like Bellomo and Mancuso will pick the former over the latter.

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1014014
06/17/21 06:15 PM
06/17/21 06:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
D
DillyDolly Offline OP
Underboss
DillyDolly  Offline OP
D
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
I love it when Furio tries to curse me out in his broken English, it's so comical and amusing 😄

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1014033
06/17/21 10:07 PM
06/17/21 10:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 156
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boomboomroom Offline
Made Member
boomboomroom  Offline
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Made Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 156

Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: DillyDolly] #1014035
06/18/21 02:14 AM
06/18/21 02:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
furio_from_naples  Offline

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
Originally Posted by DillyDolly
I love it when Furio tries to curse me out in his broken English, it's so comical and amusing 😄


Only because you are a keyboard warrior,in real world I should beat you up.

Last edited by furio_from_naples; 06/18/21 02:14 AM.
Re: IS RICO USED AGAINST ANYONE ELSE, OR JUST ITALIANS [Re: furio_from_naples] #1014039
06/18/21 06:56 AM
06/18/21 06:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
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DillyDolly Offline OP
Underboss
DillyDolly  Offline OP
D
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,564
Okay Furio 👌

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