When Tommy was about to be made, Jimmy & Tommy tell Henry the good news. Jimmy said that "Paulie's gonna make him," or something to that affect. Did Paulie set Tommy up directly and authorize that Tommy be whacked? Or were the guys that ordered it (not necessarily those who carried it out) higher on the command-chain than Paulie?

Tommy was never going to be made. It was a set up to lure him to his own execution. Now in real life Tommy was killed because he wacked Billy Batts, a made man, who I believe was a Captain no less( The go get your shinebox scene in Goodfellas). Under the rules of La Cosa Nostra, when they want to apply them, you cannot kill a made man, especially a Captain, without a bosses permission. So Tommy sealed his own fate when he killed Billy Batts. What probably happened is that when the Gambino crew found out that Tommy killed one of their own made men, in all likelyhood they went to Paulie and demanded that Tommy answer for his actions with his life. Paulie probably ordered the hit on his own guy in order to keep the peace with the Gambino crew.


Don Cardi

Thanks Don Cardi. I guess the only clue in the movie is when, after Paulie & Henry are out of prison, Paulie gives the warning that Tommy is too wild and takes too many chances. Perhaps Paulie had made up his mind by then to whack Tommy.

Yes, absolutely. And Paulie had the authority to order the hit.
I've often thought that Paulie handled that one pretty cleverly. Though the Gambino guys easily could have whacked Tommy on their own, they chose to dump it on Paulie because, even though Tommy wasn't made, he was one of his "associates" and Paulie was therefore responsible for him. Had Paulie refused, and the Gambino guys stepped in and whacked Tommy, Paulie would have lost face. And it could have led to war. Instead, Paulie, by stepping up to the plate, earned respect and perhaps a reciprocal favor from the Gambinos by "doing the right thing" (he chose to abide by Mafia rules, which as DC implied, aren't often applied). At the same time, he got rid of Tommy, whom he described as "a cowboy with someting to prove"--a danger to him and his organization. Also at the same time, he spared Henry and Jimmy, who were good earners for him and who could have gone down with Tommy as well. Not a bad day's work for Paulie.
BTW: Henry Hill, in his latest book, describes the Batts affair exactly as it was portrayed in the movie. Other authors give different accounts, and none of them, as far as I know, describe Batts as a captain or even a made guy.

Most of the books that I read never say that Batts was a Captain. It may have been Alan May who described Batts as a Captain in one of his stories, and if memory serves me correctly one of the John Gotti books that was written mentions something about Batts being a captain. I know that I did read that somewhere.


Don Cardi

Most of the books that I read never say that Batts was a Captain. It may have been Alan May who described Batts as a Captain in one of his stories, and if memory serves me correctly one of the John Gotti books that was written mentions something about Batts being a captain. I know that I did read that somewhere.


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]Ok, this was driving me crazy because I knew that I read or heard somewhere that Billy Batts was a made man and also remember reading that he was a Captain in the Gambino family. So I did some research and came up with this :

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


William "Billy Batts" Devino (January 19, 1921 - June 11, 1970) was born William Paul DeVinno in Brooklyn, New York and was described as a long time friend of John Gotti and a made member of the Gambino Family in the 1960s. After spending six years in prison he was killed by Tommy DeSimone, with the help of Jimmy Burke and Henry Hill.

Little is known about his early life. In 1959, he became a member of the Gambino crime family and was made in 1961.
For rest of story for anyone interested http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Batts


Then I found this :

At an unknown point in his career DeVino became a Capo, or Captain, in the Gambino family .



Not saying that this is accurate, butI knew that I had read this somewhere.


Don Cardi

Wikipedia is not always the most accurate source for information. Now, I'm not saying that Billy Batts wasn't a capo, but in general, I find flaws in their articles from time to time. In fact, the Internet Movie Database no longer accepts Wikipedia as the sole verifying source for new information submissions. (Of course, the Database can be sloppy and unreliable at times, too - but that's another story.)

The Crime Library story by Allan May (about the Lufthansa heist) doesn't refer to Devino/Batts as a captain, but does make for interesting reading. Here is that particular page:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/gang/heist/12.html

Signor V.

ok here's a question:

Did paulie whack Tommy, or did he simply allow Tommy to be Whacked?
Did he turn his head so to speak?

IF the rendering in the movie is correct (a big "if"), then Paulie approved and ordered it. He told Henry that the Gambinos were "busting my balls" [emphasis added] about Batts' disappearance. And the guys who whacked Tommy were Paulie's guys.

I just bought the two disc set of Goodfellas! Love this movie!

Tommy was offed because Batts was a made man, and Tommy wasn't made.

From the book Paulie knew that he was going to get whacked but because Paulie believed in Mafia codes, he couldn't do anything about it, because Tommy Killed a made man.