And with 8mm films and projectors, one didn't have to worry about the chance of the projector picking up a virus while watching those only dressed in sunglasses and socks.


Don Cardi

And with 8mm films and projectors, one didn't have to worry about the chance of the projector picking up a virus while watching those only dressed in sunglasses and socks.


Don Cardi

What about Foreman, isn't he a great boxer?
He was considered greater than Ali at the time of the Rumble of the Jungle. I heard.

I recall reading a version of the Book of Lists from around 1979-1980 where boxing experts from Ring Magazine were asked to list the greatest heavyweights of all-time.
I don't recall who was #1, but Ali was in the middle of the pack. Reading it in the mid-90's, I was somewhat surprised because Ali's reputation had taken on legendary proportions.

Of course, an athlete's place in history isn't established until we can view it from some historical perspective, but I believe that while Ali was a great champion, his abilities today are somewhat overstated as his career benefited from several questionable decisions. Many agree that Ken Norton was robbed in Yankee Stadium, Frazier won the second fight, and I believe that Jimmy Young-a little known challenger in the mid-70s beat Ali. Many defended the questionable decisions in these fights at the time by saying, To beat a champion, you have to knock him out."

When Spinks defeated Ali in 1977(?), the fight was not that close, and Ali, tired and hurt, tried valiantly for a knockout in a stirring final round. He had Spinks in trouble until Leon delivered a stiffening right. Even that fight was a split decision.

Speaking of Spinks, by the way, wasn't the U.S. Boxing team of the 1976 Olympics their greatest? Howard Davis, Ray Leonard, Michael and Leon Spinks. Can't recall the others right now.

My path crossed Ali's in a way:
I often had business with one of my empoyer's units in a suburb of Chicago, flying in and out the same day. One afernoon in March of '87, I was sitting in a surprisingly uncrowded gate area at Chicago O'Hare Airport. I looked up and, not a hundred feet away, there was Muhammed Ali, standing in the middle of an aisle, alone. I couldn't get over it: the one and only Ali, right there! Superficially, he looked great: youthful, face unmarked, no gray hair, seemingly in good shape, without the paunch that so many ex-heavyweight fighters put on when they leave the ring. But one look at his face told me he was a million miles away. His Parkinson's Disease and other ailments attributed to the punishment he'd taken in the ring had been written about, and believe me, he looked really out of it.
Within a minute, a little middle-aged woman, evidently part of his entourage, took him by the arm, turned him around, and started walking him away, robot-like. Then a bunch of little kids spotted him and crowded around him, asking for autographs. A ghost of a smile came on his face, but the smile, too, was a million miles away.
It was a really sad thing to see.

I was a tremendous boxing fan back in the early 60's

Some more memories from then....

Floyd Patterson had a training camp in Highland Mills, NY, near a bungalow colony we used to go to, and he'd let the public in for free to watch him train, which was unheard of at the time.

I also vividly remember the Grifith-Paret fight, with refere Ruby Goldstein seeming to freeze while Paret, held up in a corner by the ringpost, absorbed punch after unanswered punch.

And my favorit fighter of the time?

A guy that I'd be surprised if anyone besides Turnbull or SC remembered:

Middleweight Florentino Fernandez.

Very rarely did they feature knockout artists on the Friday Night Gillette Fight of the Week, because, obviously, if the fight ended early they figured they would lose a lot of viewers.

So most of the fights, while featuring the better fighters of the day, produced very few knockouts.

But Fernandez was a true knockout artist who had a decent string of television KOs before being matched with - and losing to - middleweight champ Gene Fullmer.

Here's a very good piece comparing the careers of Ali and Marciano:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=26&more=1

This one talks about their famous 1969 "Computer Fight":

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Arena/1047//alirock.html

No, I have never seen him box. Where can I see him? Is there any recommended dvd/boxing history documentaries you or anyone else might know of?

sorry, apart from those links posted above. I am at work right now so i'll give'em a watch later on.

Nothing specific that I know of.

Just stuff I've seen on TV from time to time over the years, most recently on ESPN Classic.

If you're a Netflix member, though, I bet there are some DVDs available.

I'll take a look.....

Those links are for stuff to read, not watch.

This appears to be a DVD of the Marciano-Roland LaStarza fight, but it doesn't seem to be available from NetFlix:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0372403/

Here are two more with Marciano that NetFlix doesn't seem to have either:

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=7055005&style=movie&cart=368627099&BAB=C

http://www.screenselect.co.uk/visitor/product/28133-Rocky-Marciano-Vs-Joe-Walcott.html

Marciano (and other fighters) used to train at Grossinger's one of the two biggest resort hotels in the Catskills. Grossinger's comped the fighters because they were a draw for paying guests, and also sports writers, who gave the hotel a plug while writing about the boxers.
Nino Benvenuti, the middleweight champ, trained at Villagio Italia, another Catskills resort. I remember when Howard Cosell visited him when he was training for his fight with Griffith. Evidently Nino trained on pasta and vino, because he and Cosell were stuffing their faces at a table that was more laden with food than a buffet on a cruise ship. But he had to visit Griffith in his gym. Emile refused to stop hitting the speed bag, claiming that his manager decreed he should take no breaks. He sweated all over Cosell, which Cosell liked a lot less than stuffing his face with Benvenuti.
The Daily News provided vivid and ongoing coverage of the Paret/Griffith fight and fatality. The story they printed was that Paret regarded Griffith as gay, taunted him with the word "maricon," which is a coarse word for homosexual in Spanish, and even squeezed his ass at the weigh-in. The fatality was the result, the News implied, although as you point out, the ref's inaction and being propped up against the ropes was the major factor. Last year, one of the TV "newsmagazines" had a segment on Griffith, who admitted that he was gay. He also met with Paret's son and the two embraced.

I remember in the 1970's Ali used to train in Deer Lake, PA, which still seems odd to me. When I saw him in his prime, I was too young to appreciate what I was seeing.

I also saw Larry Holmes' first professional fights in Scranton. Again, I was in grade school. He signed an autograph for me, but I think I lost it that night. As an undefeated heavyweight champ, he returned to Scranton to fight Lucien Rodriguez.

Finally, my only other brush with a heavyweight champ occurred in Philadelphia when Joe Frazier pulled up along side of me at a traffic light on South Street in the summer of 1983.

Interesting....I didn't know that.

I always figured Paret was just busting his chops.

Goldstein took a ton of heat from the media for the job he did that night, too, remember?

Griffith got loads of TV fights back in those days. He was a great boxer, and he fought a few 15 round snoozers with a welterweight contemporary of his who was also a master boxer, Luis Rodriguez.

Did you roll down your window and say "Hi"?

Did you roll down your window and say "Hi"? [/b][/quote]If it was in Philly he would have said "YO!"

I remember that Floyd Patterson after losing one of his fights put on a fake moustache and beard to disguise himself because he was ashamed of losing. I think it was after the second Liston fight, but I am not sure.

Patterson lived in Westchester County New York and was a devout Catholic for what its worth. I never thought he had the killer instinct he needed to be a great champion.

Griffith was one of my favorites. I saw him fight MANY times at the Garden and he always put on a great show. Rodriquez was a great fighter to watch, too.

A couple of random thoughts:

I was at the Garden on Feb 12th, 1965 to see Rodriquez fight "Hurricane" Carter (Rodriquez won a unanimous decision). My brother got us ringside seats and I got Rocky Graziano's autograph on the cover of the program. Emile Griffith was sitting right near us and I got him to sign a picture (inside the program) of him and Rodriquez in the ring when Griffith won the title. Emile signed it "My Best Fight, Emile Griffith".

My prize autograph is on the back page of the "New York Post" dated March 10, 1967. I was there with my brother-in-law to see the last fight at the "old" Garden (Ismael Laguna vs. Frankie Narvaez). Laguna won in a unanimous decision but many of Narvaez's fans didn't like the call and started a riot. We had ringside seats and hadda hightail it off the floor when bottles started coming flying down from the upper deck. Hell, they even threw the organ down from upstairs! ..... Anyway, after our escape from the Garden we walked across the street only to see Muhammad Ali in the parking garage. He was surrounded by four of the biggest bodyguards you ever saw but I fought my way through them and handed him the newspaper so he could sign it. The "Post" had a picture of him posing with Wilt Chamberlain (the caption of the picture had his name as Cassius Clay). He graciously signed the paper and smiled when he handed it back to me.

Boy, that took some cajones .

(How I ended up in a thread about boxing I haven't got a clue).

Boy, that took some cajones .[/b][/quote]I didn't think anything about it at the time (hell, I was only 16 and I WANTED that autograph badly) but my brother-in-law almost shit his pants. (He's 6'3" and those bodyguards made him look like a little kid).

I remember Laguna, but not the other guy.

He was a pretty good lightweight with some knockout power, right?

I think I once told the story in another thread abut how I stood on line all day and thru a cold night at MSG in December or January, to buy tickets for the first Ali-Frazier fight.

My picture was on the front page of the NY Times sports section the next morning, but you couldn't tell it was me because I had one of those wool masks on that covers the whole face along with a hat, and the collar of my Swedish Army Officer's Coat (remember those?) pulled all the way up.

I got two tickets at ringside for $100 each, and the day of the fight my friend and I got to the Garden about 2:00 in the afternoon and started wheeling and dealing tickets.

We sold the first two for a profit, bought and sold some more, and wound up seeing the fight from some $75 seats which were also great, and making a couple of hundred bucks each, besides.

I only saw one other fight "live" at the old Garden, though.

Because of the "kinship" I felt for Floyd Patterson after watching him train so often, I was there on February 1, 1965, when he took an impressive 12 round decision from George Chuvalo in a really good fight.

It was a 12-rounder because it was an "elimination" bout to see who got a mandatory title shot with Cassius Clay, and it led to the first fight between the two later in the year.

I remember sitting in the green seats, and paying about $7 or $8 for a ticket.

Did you roll down your window and say "Hi"? [/b][/quote]Joe was in a convertible and I was in the front passenger seat with my window down. My brother noticed him first, and I did say Hi, champ."

He smiled and nodded, the light changed and he drove off.

Come to think of it...he probably drove home, walked into his house and told his wife, "Some white kid on South Street thought I was Joe Frazier."

Griffith was one of my favorites. I saw him fight MANY times at the Garden and he always put on a great show. Rodriquez was a great fighter to watch, too.

A couple of random thoughts:

I was at the Garden on Feb 12th, 1965 to see Rodriquez fight "Hurricane" Carter (Rodriquez won a unanimous decision). My brother got us ringside seats and I got Rocky Graziano's autograph on the cover of the program. Emile Griffith was sitting right near us and I got him to sign a picture (inside the program) of him and Rodriquez in the ring when Griffith won the title. Emile signed it "My Best Fight, Emile Griffith".

My prize autograph is on the back page of the "New York Post" dated March 10, 1967. I was there with my brother-in-law to see the last fight at the "old" Garden (Ismael Laguna vs. Frankie Narvaez). Laguna won in a unanimous decision but many of Narvaez's fans didn't like the call and started a riot. We had ringside seats and hadda hightail it off the floor when bottles started coming flying down from the upper deck. Hell, they even threw the organ down from upstairs! ..... Anyway, after our escape from the Garden we walked across the street only to see Muhammad Ali in the parking garage. He was surrounded by four of the biggest bodyguards you ever saw but I fought my way through them and handed him the newspaper so he could sign it. The "Post" had a picture of him posing with Wilt Chamberlain (the caption of the picture had his name as Cassius Clay). He graciously signed the paper and smiled when he handed it back to me. [/b][/quote]That's a great story. Did you feel Laguna won the fight?

Robinson won my vote simply by the length,brevity & quality of his career!
They don't make boxers like they used to any more
Artruro Gatti has been my favourite fighter of recent years and he just got knocked out on Saturday night, possibly into retirement

Thankyou, Plawrence, for taking the time to post those links previously.

These are all great stories. I enjoy reading them very much, I find the history of boxing very interesting.

I'm not sure what word you're looking for, Yogi, but it sure ain't "brevity".

Sugar's carrer spanned more than 20 years and four decades, I believe.

After Ali, I'd say he was the greatest, pound-for-pound.

Did you watch it. I've always liked Gatti but I'll never forget the job Mayweather did on him, maybe a year or so ago. I thought Gatti would take Baldomir, the only difference early on was Baldomir's reach but he was in and quickly out. As soon as he stood up and traded punches, and I guess losing the plot of his gameplan, he was knocked all over the place. Baldomir being the natural size for that weight division helped in his favour too.

Gutted about Hatton now Gatti is off the cards? It's not a big interest and lucrative money fight but I don't see why, if Hatton stays at Welter, he shouldn't take on Baldomir.

I'm not sure what word you're looking for, Yogi, but it sure ain't "brevity".

Sugar's carrer spanned more than 20 years and four decades, I believe.

After Ali, I'd say he was the greatest, pound-for-pound. [/b][/quote]Yeah i know Plawrence :rolleyes:
I was thinking of a word meaning the opposite of brevity but it came out wrong...
Well it came out as brevity obviously
What can i say!
Even geniuses get it wrong sometimes

Did you watch it. I've always liked Gatti but I'll never forget the job Mayweather did on him, maybe a year or so ago. I thought Gatti would take Baldomir, the only difference early on was Baldomir's reach but he was in and quickly out. As soon as he stood up and traded punches, and I guess losing the plot of his gameplan, he was knocked all over the place. Baldomir being the natural size for that weight division helped in his favour too.

Gutted about Hatton now Gatti is off the cards? It's not a big interest and lucrative money fight but I don't see why, if Hatton stays at Welter, he shouldn't take on Baldomir. [/b][/quote]Gutted for Gatti Turi but he has had a great career and given us a lot of enjoyment along the way!
I would have loved to see him fight Hatton.
Baldomir looked like a giant did'nt he?
I have no clue who Hatton will fight next..
I would like to see him go against Mayweather. You have to fight the best to be the best eh?