I'm sorry if some of you guys don't like this, but I'm tired of all this talk about how beautiful and great Apollonia was. Michael only married Apollonia because of her looks and because she'd be an obediant wife. To tell you the truth, I disliked the whole relationship between Michael and Apollonia. I also don't think that Michael used logic when he married Apollonia. How could he marry a young and innocent teenage girl under the conditions he was in? He was in exile in Sicily and in danger of being killed. Didn't he know that because his life was in danger Apollonia's life could be in danger too if he married her? Obviously, he didn't give one thought to that because he married her after only a brief "courtship" of two weeks, and if you don't believe me read the book. The book also said something about him being so in love with her beauty and wanting to possess her, and he wanted the "courtship" to move along quickly so he could marry her. I also want to say that I'm tired of people saying that Apollonia would've been a better wife than Kay was because she was Italian. Kay couldn't help it that she wasn't born Italian! I think that Kay was a good wife to Michael and she tried her best to fit into his family. Kay wasn't used to living the type of lifestyle that the Corleones lived. She grew up in a small New England town and was the only child of a Baptist pastor and his wife. From what I've seen in the movie and read in the book, it seems that Kay was used to living a simple but comfortable life. I don't think her parents were rich but they weren't poor either. Michael, on the other hand, did come from a rich family. His family owned a large estate on Long Island that stayed guarded like a fortress. Kay wasn't used to living in such over protection and luxury. Then, she had to go through the same thing when the family moved to Lake Tahoe, Nevada. I think that lifestyle made her feel bit uncomfortable throughout her marriage to Michael. I also want to point out that Kay loved Michael much more than he ever loved her. She waited for him for about three years while he was in exile in Sicily. That's longer than I would ever wait for a man I tell you that! She spent all that time trying to call and write to him and he couldn't even get a message sent to her through Sonny or Tom. Then, he had the nerve to just completely forget about her and marry a teenage girl he barely knew! I think Michael was selfish for what he did, and he was even more selfish for not telling Kay about it before he practically pleaded for her to marry him! I think Kay should've stayed with her first instinct that it was too late for them to get married. Michael had already been back from Sicily for more than a year and didn't even have the courteousy to call or write her and tell her that he had returned home safely and was alright. However, Kay stayed loyal to Michael all while he was gone and never betrayed him. She even refused dates with other men because she truly loved Michael. Once again, if you don't believe me read the book. I hope some of you agree with what I had to say.

Jan, when is your novel coming out?

I for one see you point and understand where you are coming from!

Whoa Jan! Make paragraphs next time. Or at least put smiley faces in... found myself reading the same line over and over.

Apollonia was boring. She also had a whiny ass voice, didn't know the days of the week in order, and couldn't drive worth shit. But she was SOOO pretty. DAMN HER. I hate her too. Bitch!

But since you read the book, you know that Michael DOES tell Kay he had been with someone else. She got a little mad, but come on. He's a man and men have one weakness: Their pee-pees.

Apollonia wouldn't have been a better wife because she was Italian. I'm sure she would have been just as annoying and bossy as Kay. Mike by that point would have made his wife a prisioner whether she was Kay or not. Apollonia wasn't a pushover, you can tell by the way she wines and honks the fuckin' horn after Mike learns Sonny died. So considering Kay and Apollonia were both strong women, Mike would have been screwed with either one.

So in my opinion they're equal, except Kay could teach classes and sew ugly curtians, and Apollonia could cook and wreck cars.

Hi,
What did you want him to do? He was in exile. He may have thought that he would never be able to return to America. By the way when Vito said to the Commission that he had to make arrangements to bring his youngest Son back he wasn't kidding. In the book they made a deal with a prisoner on death row. The Corleone's would provide for his family if he took the rap for killing McClusky and Sollazzo. That is how Michael was able to return to the United States.

Paul

if you're in exile and always in the company of two bodyguards walking in Sicily, you will surely look for a girl. and in this situation, Mikey saw Appolonia and was hit by a thunderbolt.

GoodFella

(my apologies for the length of this post)

As far as Kay ... I think certainly Mike would have been in the wrong if he had hurt her with the knowlege that he had gotten married to Appolonia. But if I'm not mistaken, weren't Kay and Michael just boyfriend and girlfriend? (mi dispiace ... I don't recall).
Consider too that Michael didn't know when he would be able to come back; that he had in fact, told Kay to go back to her parents... and during his time in Sicily I don't think they had any communication at all.

I think it's kinda presumptuous anytime we think we know whether two people should love each other and get married (in real life as well as represented in the movies). We aren't them and we aren't in their heads or their cultures. Culturally, around the world people's idea of marriage is very different than our own and they believe just as strongly as we do that they are doing the right thing.

Sicilians, and Italians on the mainland (especially verses Italians north of Calabria) consider themselves pretty separate cultures; in language, in food, and in customs (btw: this used to be a sensitive issue in my family with my older relatives who were both Calabrese and Sicilian). While there are a predominance of similarities, there are quite a few contrasts (as least in degree) that tend to set them apart.

Sicily has been influenced by Arabic culture and was in fact ruled by the Moors about 1000 years ago. Much of Sicily's modern culture retains those influences. All cultures are a mish-mash of other cultures that influenced them. For Sicily this included traditions of the Roman Empire, Greek influences, North African Moorish influences, as well as feudal and Norman influence.

Old Roman law is where having a best man and maid-of-honor come from in Italy. Some other old customs in Sicily and Southern Italy are things like the procession from the bride's parents' home to the church; throwing either paper confetti ... or candy ... this is why those candy covered almonds are often called 'confetti' ... this is the candy that Appolonia was going around the wedding party and giving to each person.

To understand the circumstances that Mike was getting married in, it's important to know something about Sicilian culture.

In marriage, Muslims, and Sicilians influenced by that culture, sometimes took more than one wife. They also tended to have arranged marriages; this is the basis for Michael to have been so forward in arranging the marriage directly with Appolonia's father.

The chaperoned walk that Mike and Appolonia took was another old aspect of Sicilian courtship. At another point, Appolonia automatically looks to an older female family member before she opens Michaels gift. All this is very old practice. Interaction between the couple took place *within* the family; something that we aren't used to today.

Sicilians also often took wives who were as young as 15 to 17 years old (and this was often a girl who had been 'spoken for' since the age of 13 or 14); marrying very young is something that is quite common in many cultures especially in areas with high infant mortality and harsh living conditions.
(As an aside: as recently as the early 70's, in some southern states in the US, girls could marry at 15 and at *13* with parental consent (I believe this was Mississippi). It's both obnoxiously pious, and 'PC' when we impose our prudish sexual 'morality' on other cultures we know nothing about (he says as he backs away from the steep slope ... gravel cascading down before him).

In the old days in Sicily; because arranged marriages didn't require a formal courtship or engagement between the couple, marriages might occur very quickly after the decision was made. Michael's quick move to marriage would not be uncommon. This was still occurring right up thru the 1940's.

I should point out, however, there is a very different custom in Sicily and Southern Italy as well; since about the turn of the last century; of specifically having *very* long, drawn-out "engagements" sometimes lasting 5 or 7 years. This practice, which is really just calling a 'boyfriend/girlfriend' relationship an 'engagement', took hold to provide some sort of 'dignity' to the increasing tendency to have pre-marital sex. Another reason some claim is an economic one, giving the man a chance to get some "wealth" together (Hmmmmm, so some people claim, anyway.)

Marriage practices like the ones I've noted found their way into Sicilian culture and exist in Sicilian culture even right up to modern times-- nearly a thousand years after direct Moorish or Muslim influence had ended.

Somebody did their homework on the marriage of Mike and Appolonia in the movie. I thought they did a spectacular job.

As far as the marriage being inappropriate; I do not judge Mike so harshly.

i thought they were engaged?

i agree with some of what Jan says, i never was a part of the "Apollonia would be the perfect wife/his one true love" camp. however, i don't judge Michael harshly for marrying Apollonia. he was making best of the situation his was in, thinking with his pee-pee (as PastaPunk says), and thought life with Kay was over. i always believed it was Kay that shouldn't have married Michael not the other way around ... does that make sense?

Hey, I always thought her voice was damn SEXY!

Plus, uh... She's hot?

I always believed that Appolonia was considered "beautiful" was because FFC made all the others look extremely daudy. So in comparisons with the other women, she do look the best. But drop dead gorgeous? Give me a break!
PastaPunk was right! Appolonia would not make a good wife because she was so impatient. All the horn bopping and distrupting IMPORTANT conversations with him and Don Tomansino. I sure that Don Tomansino was very concern that Michael was teaching her to drive! Kay never did that! I just think Kay did not want business deals in her home and away from her children.

Jan I agree with you on most of your points. However, I disagree with you that you feel that it was Michael's fault that Appolonia was killed. Heck! who told the b****h to drive the car in the first place! She knew that she was to be seperated from Michael because the area was not SAFE. Therefore, she caused her own fate. Michael should have just kept her in the bedroom (where she truly belongs) and she would have been alive (shunken eyes and all!)

She was going to surpise Michael remember? Its Fabrizios fault. One way to look at it if Michael wasn't a powerful mafioso she wouldn;t be in danger all the time. Anyways, I think Appolonia too was very impatient and immature (because of her age). Kay on the otherhand really loved Michael but detested him because of his lifestyle. She was patient and very loyal. Too inquistive but still logical. All in all, Kay was better for him.

I dunno bout Kay, but what girl would wait for 3 years for a guy, lol. Guess Kay something in Michael that he didn't see on other guys (or just got tired of the dating scene).

DC

Hi,
Apollonia was blowing the horn because she is still immature. I will agree with Anthony that she is one fine looking woman.

Paul

Fabrizzo was the "danger" the reason that she must leave. No one told her to drive the car alone in the first place. Even Michael told her that her driving was not safe. The suprise is on her! Now she is dead! RIP Appolonia

Kay was the one that was the anomaly. Mike was way up in New Hampshire, in Dartmouth. It was cold and dreary and Mike had just come back from war. Now he was away from his family, his food and his women . In his lonliness he falls in love with a college girl who just HAPPENS to be a W.A.S.P., another act of rebellion against his father's traditions. Tony D said

Sicily has been influenced by Arabic culture and was in fact ruled by the Moors about 1000 years ago. Much of Sicily's modern culture retains those influences. All cultures are a mish-mash of other cultures that influenced them. For Sicily this included traditions of the Roman Empire, Greek influences, North African Moorish influences, as well as feudal and Norman influence.

This is very important. Kay was not just a different culture, she was a different race. Subtle, but different. Mike didn't slap her when she admitted the abortion, he slapped her when she spoke with contempt about "...this Sicilian thing!"
Apollonia may not have been a better wife (I believe she would have) but she would have understood the life. She was beautiful, and charming and I was hit with the THUNDERBOLT 19 years ago and my wife and I are still together.
I am not being sacreligious, but the Bible says " be not unequally yolked with an unbeliever" and metaphorically speaking, it applies here.

Sorry for the rant, " someone struck a noive".

I just want to say that I agree with you, Jan. All I was thinking when I watched him court/ and marry her was "what is he doing?" It seemed so out of character...he was supposed to be calm and intelligent. I thought she was annoying, and not as hot as everyone else thinks she is. And it was selfish for him to go back and marry Kay after everything he did.

When it comes to love and sex, for pete's sake a young man...calm and intelligent??? Give Mike a break. He didn't put a gun to Kay's head SHE was stupid to acquiesce so quickly. Where was her intelligence??? And Apollonia did not have blue veins showing on her neck.

Hell yeah!

But, listen, guys... Give Appolonia AND Mike a break! Everyone's saying my poor Appolonia is annoying with the car shit... But, c'mon. It's Italy. Girls there didn't have as much opportunity there... Can yah blame her for being a bit annoying? She was excited! And with Mike... He's a young, hot blooded male! You expect him to just drop everything and hold everything for Kay for a year? He sees a hot girl, he wants to bang her! Er, excuse my language... I mean... He's going to go after her. Give them a break, eh?

Well, Michael was struck by the thunderbolt.

Waspy Kay would have made the perfect wife for Tom, Sonny should have been married to Apollonia (paybacks for his screwing around would have been that he would have been insanely jealous of her because of her beauty), she would have handled him better than his mousy wife, and Sonny's wife would have been a perfect wife for Michael, not as much of a pest as Kay!

As Jules quoted Fonzie in Pulp Fiction... CORRECT-A-MUNDO!

First of all, I'm sorry for not using paragraphs in my first message. I was at work and had to start my shift soon so I was in a bit of a rush. Secondly, some of you still don't get the point I'm trying to make. I didn't say it was Michael's fault that Apollonia was killed. However, he should've considered the fact that by marrying her he was putting her life in danger.

Yes, it's true that Michael was thinking with his penis, and I think that's a shame. Also, I think it's so pathetic when people say that Michael couldn't help his feelings because he got hit by the "thunderbolt" and because men have weaknesses. Am I the only one who thinks there's something wrong with that?!

Also, Saladbar was right. Michael and Kay were indeed engaged before he was exiled to Sicily. I don't know why so many people keep saying they weren't!

I also think that Kay had a right to know about Michael's marriage in Sicily. True, she would've been hurt and she most likely wouldn't have married Michael if he told her about Apollonia. However, it would've been better for her to know the hurtful truth than to marry him and live a lie. I think that if you truly love someone you should be honest with them. Obviously, Michael didn't love Kay that much or else he wouldn't have married Apollonia in the first place. I think it's so cruel that he just completely forgot about her and married someone else.

Lastly, I strongly agree that Kay shouldn't have married Michael. She would've been much better off without him.

Yeah, I get pretty sick when people always go after Kay simply becasue see wanted to be treated like something more then an object and cared for the well-being of her children. She's one of the more moral of the Corleones. Michael constantely lied to her. Michael may have been in love with Appolonia, but it was Kay that really had it for him. Discussions been reaised before about Michael's sexual issues after the tragic death of Appolonia. He wants the music and the hoolers out, and he doesn't seem to care a lot for the Havanna shows at teh hotel. I guess I've thought that as a teenager and youung man, Michael may have been totally different one of those "dar kids" "a horny young man", etc. After that attempted hit on his home when he left, do you really think he got anything afterwards?

NOOO!!! Why should Tom suffer just because he's a white boy?

I must admit I liked Mike with Apollonia better than Mike with Kay. Boo hoo for Kay. It was her choice to wait for him and to eventually marry him. (In the book Mamma even tells her to "feggetaboudit!") I still think both girls would have been equal when it comes to being a wife, but Apollonia would have... well.. she just meshed well.

Blue veins on her neck? What does that mean? Sounds kinda gross.

As for Mike seeming out of character for courting Apollonia... realize that he was a changed man after he killed Sollozo and McCluskey. He was no longer the man for Kay. I think he started to realize what his father stood for, and he finally wanted to be a part of his family.

Actually, Jan... both wives would have been better off without him.

p.s. I could wait 3 years for a man. Then again, if I moved away from my fiance, couldn't keep in contact and found a hotter boy, I'd go for it!

Okay...

1. Puzo CLEARLY indicates that Mike was hit by the thunderbolt... love at first sight... what have you... they were in lust or maybe even love... as most people would agree, love over comes most of your other emotions.

2. You people have to realize that Mike isn't exactly a saint, he is a murderer... he shouldn't be expected to make rational decisions when it comes to women... let alone other people.

3. Kay KNEW what she was getting into, if the new lifestyle was so different and tough for her to adapt to, then she should have found somebody else.

4. I hate to say this because I like to get into movies as much as most of the people on here... but really... does this all bother you THAT much? They are after all, FICTIONAL characters. If you are losing sleep over what a few people on the internet believe then I'd recommend you get some help.

-Lucky

What was so great about Apollonia? I know that most of you guys think that she was so beautiful, but what else was there about her? Let's be real, she barely said anything in the movie or in the book, her role was so brief. The book even says that she was just a village girl, barely literate, and with no knowledge of the world. So, what was so great about her?

Think about it REAL hard. In the entire trilogy we only get one thing (besides a nuemonia-driven baby Fredo ). This is just speculation by me, of course .

I am surprised at all the negativity shown toward Appollonia, especially it seems by the women! In that time in Italy, things were done very differently as far as marriage goes. Somtimes courtships were very short and sometimes marriages were even arranged. It was not uncommon to marry very young either.

I do think Michael loved Appolonia. We never really got to know her personality as the audience, but I don't think she was unlikeable at all. I think she would have been a loving, faithful wife to Michael, and accepted him under any circumstances (right or wrong).

Kay, however, was also a good wife. More liberated, and willing to stand up to Michael, to an extent, and she too loved him. Neither were bad wives.

However, I still maintain Appollonia would have been a better match for Michael, yes, because she was Italian, and even tho very young at the time of her marriage, knew the customs and beliefs, knew when to keep quiet (be it right or wrong); and never, ever would have had an abortion, which is what Kay had to to get out of her marriage to Michael. Appollonia was more like mama, I am sure. I think that's what Michael needed/wanted in a woman; someone to be there, be faithful and loving, and yes, never interfere in the "family business".

BTW, when Appolonia was honking the horn for Michael to teach her to drive, she couldn't hear the conversation in which Michael was told that Sonny was killed.

TIS

PS Sorry, I am not usually this long winded!!

Jan I think you are trying to impose a personal requirement of your own on Appolonia's character that was never intended to be there.

Naive, simple Appolonia was a perfect foil to Mikes complicity and dark secrets as he fled the murders he had committed.

Like the rugged beauty of the countryside where Mike took refuge, Appolonia was essentially part of that that same unspoiled simplicity; found on a hillside like a beautiful flower with a purple ribbon in her hair. This is why her character doesn't have significant performances or dialog.

She was part of the experience of Sicily which contrasted so totally to the ugliness that had occurred back in New York.
If you'll recall, the change in the tenor of the movie that Sicily provided was very distinct. It was a landscape of simple, uncomplicated beauty with breathtaking views and a background of ancient surroundings which provided a relief from the rest of the movie the way art often does in real life. Appolonia was a part of that experience.

The simpleness and innocence of her character also allowed the audience to sense that she was being 'taken in' by Michael; setting up the turn in the plot where eventually the ugliness that Michael was trying to hide from catches up with him and also finds her because of him.
It was innocence and beauty tragically lost in the best tradition of theater!!

I think the character of Appolonia was yet another masterful part of Coppola's work and added a dimension to Sicily that couldn't be expressed with landscapes. And allowed the audience to visit the tragedy that Michael's life was becoming in a deeper way.

It would be missing the point to get all wrapped up in being judgemntal about their relationship.

That seems to be the surprizing fact TIS. If the Italian, Italian-American, Sicilian and Sicilian-American women feel that it's comfortable and appropriate to do so, I would be interested to know what they think about the Kay/Apollonia controversy. It may be a cultural split but it may just be a man/woman difference in thinking. What do you say?