can someone help me out with this what was he
I think he was underboss when vito got shot
sonny was acting boss but then when he was
kicking calo's ass he had some guys with him

can some one help me out. what was his role in
the family besides being the older son.

Well he DID have men under him, but I think he was Underboss and not just a caporegime like Clemenza and Tessio. I recall the novel mentioning when Sonny got into the "olive oil business" that the Don was considering making him Underboss. Plus, he would have had to be Underboss in order to become acting Don when Vito was shot.

Yes, the novel said the Don was considering making him underboss at an earlier time (soon after the family had moved to the Mall, probably in the late Thirties). It didn't say if the Don actually had made Sonny underboss. But, in the scene when they're preparing for the Sollozzo meeting, only Tom and Sonny sit with the Don--not Tessio or Clemenza. This leads me to believe that Sonny outranked them in the Don's hierarchy.

Yes, exactly. And to add to Turnbull's response, if you look at the Corleone Family Tree used in the hearings, it lists Santino as an underboss. The scary thing too, it also lists Fredo as the other underboss!


Don Cardi

I dont think he really fall into any one particular catagory. I think he was just "Don in Training" because I dont think and of the capos ever went through him or any of the like.

DonSonny,

Santino was The Underboss. Look at the chart.


Don Cardi

The chart is a bit inaccurate in my opinion. It assumes quite a few things.

For example, it has Fredo listed as an Underboss.

I think the chart assumed the Family worked like a King ruling a country. The king's sons where the heirs so an underboss would be the closest thing to an heir in the Family so they just assumed Sonny and Fredo to be underbosses.

I think "all the new faces" around the compound had more power than Fredo lol

The chart doesn't have a designation for Sonny. He (Sonny) is listed separately under his father. There's no doubt that Sonny was running the Family while Vito was hospitalized, but prior to that Sonny had his own regime, which probably meant he was a capo, albeit a "higher" one than Tessio or Clemenza.

The chart is flawed. There's never been any indication that Fredo was an underboss (and I seriously doubt Michael would have granted that title to him), and Luca Brasi was listed as a button when he in reality he was a Special Retainer (to the Don).

The information for the chart made by the Senate Committee probably came from Frank Pentangeli and Willie Cicci (remember, this was 1959 and the surveillance into mob activities was nowhere what it is today). Cicci probably would not have known the true hierarchy, and Pentangeli SHOULD HAVE known who his immediate superior was (and that should have been an underboss), but he obviously didn't have much contact with Fredo (when Fredo saw Frankie 5 Angels at the Family party in Nevada it was apparent they hadn't seen each other in a while).

In essence, I'm saying that the chart was wrong, and we really can't point to that chart to answer this question.

Yes SC, you are correct. I went and looked at the chart again and Santino is listed a deceased. My error, I apologize. I agree that the chart is defiantely flawed, but I do find it funny that the government had listed Fredo as an underboss! What did the government think? That after Sonny was killed Fredo was calling the shots?


Don Cardi

That's a good description, DSC. And I think you're right: the caporegimes didn't report through him. I think Vito was diffident about Sonny: he had to favor Sonny his successor over Tessio and Clemenza, but he always had doubts about Sonny--not his forcefulness, but his judgment. The novel indicates that the Don really worried about Sonny's readiness--"after all, he [the Don] wasn't immortal."

The Corleone Family is portrayed both in the novel and in the movie much as the Bonanno Family actually was. Joe Bonanno placed alot of responsibility on his son's shoulders and, in fact, did name him as underboss at one time. Although Sonny was his father's right hand and had his own regime, he was not underboss. There was no underboss in the Corleone Family. That may be unusual - a family without an underboss. But, keep in mind that Puzo's construct of the Corleone Family had it with only two caporegimes although the Family boasted of 1,000 soldiers. Madonne!

There are many things about the Novel that differentiate from the Movie. And sonny's rank is one of them. In the Novel he was definitely a Captain. In the Movie it is safe to assume that he was an underboss since he didn't have any men and he used mainly Clemenza's regime to protect him while he was the acting head of the Family.