Originally posted by Don Smitty:
Now if I had started a post like this I would have been called a bigot, asshole, a basher and someone who was only trying to start some sort of shit on this board . Anyway I just wanted to say goodbye to all ya. Have a good life and i'll see ya on the other side baby! I cannot take the back and forth anymore. It's like watching a f*&King talk show like Hannity and Colmes for Gods sake! Nothing ever gets done. Wow! What a world baby. Chow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DS

Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
Rather than having this pissing contest can you debate with facts and sources or something, rather than the "p diddy" and "Jeff Jarrett" comments and just saying I'm right, you're wrong. He's not liberal, he is liberal etc...

It's reasons like those that so many threads go down the drain.

Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.


TIS

Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.


TIS

Originally posted by Double-J:
Depends on whether you lived in the North or the South. Some in the lower states still hold a grudge against the man.

Considering that the majority of the South was willing to secede just because Lincoln was elected, I would say Lincoln was in some ways a more polarizing (extraneous circumstances notwithstanding) President that Bush could ever hope to be.

Originally posted by plawrence:
I believe that there was considerably more to the seccession issue than Lincoln simply being elected, wasn't there?

Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.


TIS

Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
Rather than having this pissing contest can you debate with facts and sources or something, rather than the "p diddy" and "Jeff Jarrett" comments and just saying I'm right, you're wrong. He's not liberal, he is liberal etc...

It's reasons like those that so many threads go down the drain.

Originally posted by Patrick:
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] Mind sharing some of those relevant facts with us, Patrick?

Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
140 years from now Bush might be considered the best President because in a few years (from now) we find out that his wiretaps uncovered a plot or stopped an attack or what have you or his basis for waging war on Iraq and terrorism put him down as one of the greatest Presidents ever even though at the time of the events he wasn't well liked and his means were heavily debated.

Originally posted by plawrence:


If he more or less fails at both, he'll be villified as probably one of the worst presidents ever.

Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
just takes a bit of patience and concentration.

Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
The best story about Calvin Coolidge is that he was a man of very few words. At some White House dinner, a woman sitting next to him said she had bet her friend she could get him to say at least 3 words that night. Coolidge's reply..."You lose."

Originally posted by plawrence:
My favorite LBJ quote - altho I forget who he was talking about. Bobby Baker, maybe? - was

"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."

Originally posted by plawrence:
My favorite LBJ quote - altho I forget who he was talking about. Bobby Baker, maybe? - was

"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."

Video Implies Lincoln Would Have Supported Liberal Causes
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
February 04, 2003

Washington (CNSNews.com) - A video presented at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington appears to suggest that former President Abraham Lincoln would have supported modern-day, left-of-center political causes such as homosexual rights, abortion rights and the modern feminist agenda.

One tourist from Wisconsin, who viewed the video in the memorial's Lincoln Legacy Room, called it "awful" and said the "political correctness of it is beyond words." Other visitors to the memorial told CNSNews.com they believe the video clearly implies that Lincoln would have supported left-wing political causes.

A National Park Service spokesman told CNSNews.com he was "reluctant" to comment on the Lincoln video because the whole issue had the "potential to be quite controversial."

The video features an actor who sounds like Lincoln speaking about the Civil War and slavery. He then leads into clips of Martin Luther King's 1963 March on Washington.

About halfway through the approximately eight-minute video, footage of modern-day marchers is shown over "Lincoln's" booming voice as patriotic music and songs associated with the civil rights movement play.

At this point, the video shows snippets from modern-day marches. A sign reading, "The Lord is my Shepherd and Knows I am Gay" kicks off a series of visuals featuring left-wing social causes, while "Lincoln's voice" and patriotic music blare.

The other visuals include signs reading "Gay & Lesbian Sexual Rights," "Council of Churches Lesbian Rights," "National Organization for Women" (NOW), "Reagan's Wrongs Equal Women's Rights," "ERA Yes," "Ratify the Era," "I had an illegal abortion in 1967 - Never Again," "Keep Abortion Legal," "I am pro-choice America," a Vietnam-era video clip of a woman asking: "President Nixon where are our men?" and a sign reading, "Who will Decide NARAL (National Abortion Rights & Reproductive Action League).

The video features the theme song of the civil rights movement, "We Shall Overcome," and continues with visual displays of liberal causes, including signs reading "In Opposition to King Richard [Nixon]," "U.S. out Now," "Equal Opportunity for All," "Peace," "Hell No We Won't Go," "No More Lies, Sign the Treaty Now Coalition," and marchers chanting U.S. Out Now".

The video also features an excerpt from a Martin Luther King speech and then progresses into a banner reading "Pass the Brady [Gun Control] Bill Now." Pro-life demonstrators appear in the video once, in a brief clip where they are shown clashing with abortion rights activists. No other political causes that could be considered right-of-center appear in the video.

'Beyond Words'

CNSNews.com asked several of the tourists visiting the memorial what they thought of the video and whether they believed it implied Lincoln would support modern-day causes such as homosexual rights and abortion rights.

"I liked it... I think [Lincoln] would have [supported homosexual and abortion rights] because that's how Lincoln was; he was very supportive of the people. He didn't care who you are and what you are, he loved everybody," said Elizabeth Baksi, a high school student from Houma, La., after viewing the video.

Darre Klain of Baltimore, Md., also agreed that Lincoln would have supported today's liberal political causes as implied in the video.

[Lincoln] seemed like a very progressive, forward-thinking man, ahead of his time," Klain said.

But Paul Meisius of Sheboygan, Wis., rejected the video's message as he interpreted it, and he chastised the National Park Service for showcasing it.

"That's awful," Meisius said as he finished watching the video. "The political correctness of it is beyond words. I don't think that's proper. They are giving themselves credit to be able to say whatever they want about Lincoln's political views," Meisius told CNSNews.com.

"Our national monuments are being stripped of their true heritage. They are being uprooted and taken and changed. It's an atrocity that they are rewriting history in the sense that these people have political agendas," Meisius said.

Meisius, who was visiting Washington, D.C., with his wife and five children, believes the video is an attack by revisionist historians.

"The wrongness and incorrectness of this -- this stripping of the true essential biblical aspects of our foundation - are being replaced by political correctness," he said.

Angela Brewer, a program instructor for the Close Up Foundation, a citizenship education organization, denied the Lincoln video implied the former president would have supported modern-day, left-wing social causes.

"[The Lincoln Memorial] has frequently has been used as a backdrop for groups that seem to me to be liberal. I don't know that there is a particular purpose behind [the video]," Brewer said.

Gary Perkins, who coordinates exhibits at the Sweetwater Historical Museum in Green River, Wyo., has written about the difficulty our national museums face when presenting historical materials. Perkins believes that the National Park Service may be guilty of historical overreach with the video in question.

"We do not know what Abraham Lincoln thought of gay rights. We have no clue, he never talked about it," Perkins said after hearing CNSNews.com's description of the Lincoln Memorial video.

"We can't really infer he supported gay rights," Perkins added.

'Quite Controversial'

Bill Line, a spokesman for the National Park Service's National Capital Region, told CNSNews.com that the Discovery Channel produced the video for the Lincoln Memorial.

Asked if the video intentionally makes it appear as though Lincoln would have supported homosexual rights, abortion rights and feminist causes, Line was unequivocal in his initial answer.

"I have seen the video, and I don't know how you can contrive that out of it," Line said.

However, after specific examples of "liberal causes" were pointed out to him, Line backed away from his previous comment.

"I am reluctant, quite frankly, to say much to you because I don't know the whole other premise that you are coming from or the background or the fuller context that the story is being written in, and it has potential to be quite controversial," Line explained.

Finally, Line announced he needed to see the video again before he would have any official comment.

"It's been a while since I reviewed the videotape. Before I can adequately comment and give to you something you can use in your story, I need to go and review that videotape myself," Line said.

As of press time, Line had not contacted CNSNews.com with further comment on the video.

'Left-wing gestapo'

Cultural critic David Horowitz was not surprised by the description of the video that CNSNews.com provided. Horowitz believes that left-wing political perspectives are the dominant philosophy of the curators of the U.S.'s national monuments. Horowitz, a former 1960s radical, is co-founder of the Los Angeles-based Center for the Study of the Popular Culture.

"The whole museum field has been taken over by the left wing Gestapo," Horowitz said.

"People have to wake up. This is the America hating left. It is in charge of our national monuments. It's a disgrace and testament to how the academic history profession is totally dominated by the political left," Horowitz said