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Rights... #146894
02/09/06 05:32 PM
02/09/06 05:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
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M.M. Floors  Offline OP
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Netherlands
Okay, this is hard for me to explain correctly, but I'm trying.

I was thinking lately:

In parts of America it's possible to get executed by electric chair, or am I wrong? The problem now is: what to do with someone who has volunteerd to be donor (someone who gives away his organs after he/she dies). If you get executed by chair probably these organs are not of any value...

so the question is: is being a donor a RIGHT of a person? Cause if it is: can he or she ask for another way to get executed (which saves his organs)?

Maybe stupid question, but sometimes I can be very philosofic.

Re: Rights... #146895
02/09/06 05:37 PM
02/09/06 05:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra Offline
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Gateshead, UK
I have a question, now, then: how does electrocution render the organs unrecycable?


...dot com bold typeface rhetoric.
You go clickety click and get your head split.
'The hell you look like on a message board
Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
Re: Rights... #146896
02/09/06 05:40 PM
02/09/06 05:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
Snake Offline
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I think a criminal forfeits his "rights," except the most basic (substinence, humane conditions, etc.)when he's sent to prison. However, in an "organ donor" situation, I'd be willing to forego fryin' the guy so that some dying citizen could survive. I mean, why not?


"Vaya con Dios, Castle. Go with God."
"God's going to sit this one out." The Punisher (2004)
Re: Rights... #146897
02/09/06 05:41 PM
02/09/06 05:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 319
Kansas City
irishmike Offline
Capo
irishmike  Offline
Capo
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Kansas City
I am certainly no expert on the subject, but I do not believe condemned inmates are allowed to donate their organs--but, as Dennis Miller says, Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.


"....but your father never TRUSTED Hyman Roth."
Re: Rights... #146898
02/09/06 05:43 PM
02/09/06 05:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 319
Kansas City
irishmike Offline
Capo
irishmike  Offline
Capo
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Kansas City
Quote:
Originally posted by Capo de La Cosa Nostra:
I have a question, now, then: how does electrocution render the organs unrecycable?
I imagine the "innards" may kind of "bile" over during the application of the 'lectricity proper.


"....but your father never TRUSTED Hyman Roth."
Re: Rights... #146899
02/09/06 06:02 PM
02/09/06 06:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
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Quote:
Originally posted by Capo de La Cosa Nostra:
I have a question, now, then: how does electrocution render the organs unrecycable?
Well....roasted organs are not that great....but maybe you are right. Is there anyone on this board who can tell:

Do organs survive electric chair?

Re: Rights... #146900
02/09/06 06:13 PM
02/09/06 06:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
Snake Offline
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Snake  Offline
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Well, if it worked like a microwave...heck, I don't know. Looks to me like it'd fry the dude on the inside as well.


"Vaya con Dios, Castle. Go with God."
"God's going to sit this one out." The Punisher (2004)
Re: Rights... #146901
02/09/06 06:15 PM
02/09/06 06:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
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M.M. Floors  Offline OP
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snake:
Well, if it worked like a microwave...heck, I don't know. Looks to me like it'd fry the dude on the inside as well.
..and thus loose organs

For example: In china they execute people with a neck shot...so they can use the organs.

Re: Rights... #146902
02/09/06 06:29 PM
02/09/06 06:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
Snake Offline
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Well, as long as they ice the guy in some way and can harvest his organs for some suffering soul, I'm all for it. The convict sure ain't gonna be needin' 'em anymore.


"Vaya con Dios, Castle. Go with God."
"God's going to sit this one out." The Punisher (2004)
Re: Rights... #146903
02/09/06 06:32 PM
02/09/06 06:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra Offline
Capo de La Cosa Nostra  Offline

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Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by M.M. Floors:
In china they execute people with a neck shot...so they can use the organs.
Smitty was right. Let's go the China Way!


...dot com bold typeface rhetoric.
You go clickety click and get your head split.
'The hell you look like on a message board
Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
Re: Rights... #146904
02/09/06 06:52 PM
02/09/06 06:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,854
Milky Way
Enzo Scifo Offline
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Enzo Scifo  Offline
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What if they give an injection? Maybe the poison can effect the organs too?

Let's just hang 'em high...


Quote
See, we can act as smart as we want, but at the end of the day, we still follow a guy who fucks himself with kebab skewers.
Re: Rights... #146905
02/09/06 08:01 PM
02/09/06 08:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
afsaneh77 Offline
Mother of Dragons
afsaneh77  Offline
Mother of Dragons

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Yunkai
The organ donors are usually those who are brain dead, but their heart is still beating. That way, the heart is still pumping the blood to other organs, so they still can be used. If I'm not mistaken, in the electrocution process, the current must close its path through heart, thus making the heart stop, which eventually would cause death. Therefore the organs of the deceased can no longer be used.


"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
Re: Rights... #146906
02/10/06 08:03 AM
02/10/06 08:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
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Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
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M.M. Floors  Offline OP
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Well that sounds good...so I accept this theory. But now my question to you:

Thus this man/woman have the right to ask for another way?

Re: Rights... #146907
02/10/06 10:07 AM
02/10/06 10:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,389
State Asylum
Snake Offline
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I'm thinking it'll depend on state laws and statutes.


"Vaya con Dios, Castle. Go with God."
"God's going to sit this one out." The Punisher (2004)
Re: Rights... #146908
02/10/06 10:10 AM
02/10/06 10:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 25,984
California
The Italian Stallionette Offline
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California
There was a story very recently about a man on death row, who had a sister that needed a kidney (I think) and her brother wanted to give her his. It was denied, but I don't remember the entire story. Anyone remember the details? It was on the news just a few months ago I believe.


TIS


"Mankind must put an end to war before war puts an end to mankind. War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today." JFK

"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon

Re: Rights... #146909
02/10/06 01:49 PM
02/10/06 01:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline
MaryCas  Offline

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South of the Pinelands
Is there a doctor on the board? The one who fixed Lucy or Ferro ??

If I was in need of an organ and a serial killer/child rapist on death row had an organ to give....I think I would refuse it.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Rights... #146910
02/10/06 02:41 PM
02/10/06 02:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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New York
MC - Just curious, but why would you refuse it? Because it was "tainted"? I know someone who had a heart transplant, and was very close to dying. First of all, I don't think they tell you much about the donor besides their age and sex. Second, if I was dying, and had been waiting for years for a suitable donor (which most do), I'm not sure I'd be too picky about the donor.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Rights... #146911
02/10/06 03:08 PM
02/10/06 03:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
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M.M. Floors  Offline OP
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The one who gets executed does something back for society. Maybe he took one life, but with his organ he could save one....

Re: Rights... #146912
02/10/06 03:47 PM
02/10/06 03:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 624
Thailand/Brazil
Vito The Godfather Offline
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Thailand/Brazil
Why take away somebody else's live?
They should make that criminal do a community job and work his ass to know what life is about, or maybe that's too good for someone like that.

Instant death will only take them away, but if they are alive, they should do some work and still be locked up in jail.


"It is the mind that makes someone wise or ignorant, slave or free."
Re: Rights... #146913
02/10/06 05:36 PM
02/10/06 05:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
afsaneh77 Offline
Mother of Dragons
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Yunkai
I verified what I posted earlier here:
http://www.nyodn.org/organ/o_donationfacts_faq.html
Quote:
Q: When must organs be removed?
A: Organs must be removed as soon as possible after the determination of brain death, while circulation is being maintained artificially. Tissue may be removed within 12 to 24 hours.
I'm baffled by your question. If you are asking about a kind of donation that does not require the death of the donor, I think that could be allowed. If the person wishes to donate a kidney or blood, I don't see anything wrong with that. But by law, that person must be executed by electrical chair, which would cause his/her heart stop and he/she does not technically have a brain death to be qualified to donate his/her vital organs.

When you declare you are an organ donor, you acknowledge that in case of brain death, your vital organs can be taken for transplant purposes. A person on a death row on the other hand, will not experience brain death by execution means, and it is not as if any of us could choose how we are going to die. Furthermore if such a thing becomes a law, family members of the victim who are going to witness the execution, if there should be any, must be able to have a say in this matter.


"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
Re: Rights... #146914
02/10/06 06:30 PM
02/10/06 06:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,950
DonMichaelCorleone Offline
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Posts: 7,950
Quote:
Originally posted by MaryCas:
If I was in need of an organ and a serial killer/child rapist on death row had an organ to give....I think I would refuse it.
If it sped up the killing process I'd take it in a minute.


"You gave your word, I never gave mine"
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Re: Rights... #146915
02/10/06 09:38 PM
02/10/06 09:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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AZ
MM, unless I'm mistaken (and I could be), the electric chair is no longer used as an instrument of execution in the United States. Lethal injection is, I believe, used in all states that permit capital punishment (not all do).
The last state in which a condemned person had a choice of means of execution was Utah. The condemned could choose between hanging and firing squad. Nice choice. :rolleyes: Now I think Utah, like other states, uses lethal injection.

I doubt that prisoners who were facing death by electrocution could donate organs because electrocution probably would "derange" them. Electrocution wasn't just a quick jolt. The condemned person was hit with 2,000 volts for two minutes, then shocks at 1,000 and 500 volts for several minutes each. Certainly eyes would be destroyed by electrocution. And since electrocution raised the temperature throughout the body, the condition of other organs would be doubtful at best. Lethal injection would leave toxic chemicals throughout the body. I doubt that anyone would want to receive an organ thus contaminated.

Sorry for the grim account.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Rights... #146916
02/11/06 06:37 AM
02/11/06 06:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
afsaneh77 Offline
Mother of Dragons
afsaneh77  Offline
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Yunkai
A current as low as 0.1A at 30 volts, if passed through heart, (i.e. through your both hands) can stop the heart. I was deceived by this information to think they use the same method in electrocution as well, but it seems that they practically fry the inmate.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=479

Quote:
For execution by the electric chair, the person is usually shaved and strapped to a chair with belts that cross his chest, groin, legs, and arms. A metal skullcap-shaped electrode is attached to the scalp and forehead over a sponge moistened with saline. The sponge must not be too wet or the saline short-circuits the electric current, and not too dry, as it would then have a very high resistance. An additional electrode is moistened with conductive jelly (Electro-Creme) and attached to a portion of the prisoner's leg that has been shaved to reduce resistance to electricity. The prisoner is then blindfolded. (Hillman, 1992 and Weisberg, 1991)
After the execution team has withdrawn to the observation room, the warden signals the executioner, who pulls a handle to connect the power supply. A jolt of between 500 and 2000 volts, which lasts for about 30 seconds, is given. The current surges and is then turned off, at which time the body is seen to relax. The doctors wait a few seconds for the body to cool down and then check to see if the inmate's heart is still beating. If it is, another jolt is applied. This process continues until the prisoner is dead. The prisoner's hands often grip the chair and there may be violent movement of the limbs which can result in dislocation or fractures. The tissues swell. Defecation occurs. Steam or smoke rises and there is a smell of burning. (Hillman, 1992 and Weisberg, 1991)
U.S. Supreme Court Justice William Brennan once offered the following description of an execution by electric chair:
...the prisoner's eyeballs sometimes pop out and rest on [his] cheeks. The prisoner often defecates, urinates, and vomits blood and drool. The body turns bright red as its temperature rises, and the prisoner's flesh swells and his skin stretches to the point of breaking. Sometimes the prisoner catches fire....Witnesses hear a loud and sustained sound like bacon frying, and the sickly sweet smell of burning flesh permeates the chamber. (Ecenbarger, 1994)
At postmortem, the body is hot enough to blister if touched, and the autopsy is delayed while the internal organs cool. There are third degree burns with blackening where the electrodes met the skin of the scalp and legs. According to Robert H. Kirschner, the deputy chief medical examiner of Cook County, "The brain appears cooked in most cases." (Weisberg, 1991)
But it seems that Nebraska is the only state that requires electrocution as the only method right now, but these states have it as an option: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, [Illinois], Kentucky, Nebraska, [Oklahoma], South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=8&did=245

Nonetheless, organs of the person executed by lethal injection can not be used.


"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
Re: Rights... #146917
02/11/06 10:22 AM
02/11/06 10:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,849
Netherlands
M.M. Floors Offline OP
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Netherlands
Interesting posts of all of you. It was nice to share some toughts about this...


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