First let me start by saying I know there were tons of threads about this and at this point I can't find them and I am about to leave for school so dont shoot me for this:

I read in other ones that people said Fredo didn't know he was going to be shot on the boat, but my questions is wasnt that Al on the boat with him? Whoever it was that shot him why would they even need to be on the boat in the first place (if it wasnt to kill him of course)

To bring the boat out on the lake for him and if necessary, help him reel in a fish.

As a member of the Corleone family, and brother of the Don...Fredo would probably expect to have the boat operated for him. Even without Anthony, once he was called away by Connie.

Apple

Fredo would expect not to operate the boat by himself. He felt comforted by not being killed earlier, and really did not expect to die.

I believe even he wasn't stupid enough to know he wasn't gonna die by the time Anthony got out of the boat. He was praying to catch a fish and to save his life.

Nope he didn't know. Once he hugged Mike at the main house during their Moms funeral he thought all was forgiven and forgotten.

Plleeeaaase dont ask
No I think Fredo knew,when Anthony was pulled out of the boat, but chose to accept his fate.Notice the way he says "Ok Al, lets go" doesnt sound like a man who knew he was coming back.One of my main points for this is that he was all alone in the boat w/Al. Apple does have a good point, but Al is way to important to be Fredo's boat opperator,even Fredo knows that.
I also say the prayer had nothing to do with weither or not he knew,because he always said that to catch a fish.
Whadya say,Round 2?

As you noted, DMC, this topic has been done many times. Some people can make a case that Fredo should have known that he'd be killed, or even that he might have known that it was his last ride, and went along with it out of resignation and/or repentence. But I think that, while Fredo should have recognized that his brother never, ever gave an enemy a pass, he probably didn't think of himself as an enemy, especially after that embrace at Mama's wake. So I don't think he knew.
As for Neri: Michael obviously designated Neri as Fredo's killer after the famous boathouse scene. I'm guessing that Neri (with or without Michael's advice) figured that, sooner or later, he'd not only have to kill Fredo, but find a way to dispose of his body--and create an alibi. I'm guessing that he figured that the lake would be a good place to dispose of the body. So he appointed himself custodian of boats--the chief boat-operator--to establish that he'd always be in a boat when the day of Fredo's death came around. Of course Fredo could have operated a little motorboat by himself, but he probably got used to having Al do it.
Others have pointed out that dumping Fredo's body in the lake was problematic: wouldn't the authorities drag the lake looking for him, and find him shot to death? I don't know the answer. Perhaps, with no witnesses, Al may have claimed that he brought Fredo back to the dock, and that Fredo then took off for parts unknown. We have to give FFC some license here.

I believe he had no idea he was going to be shot. When Micheal hugged him after the funeral, I think he truly believed he was forgiven and not dead to Micheal anymore.

I would say that Fredo did not expect to be shot and killed on his fishing trip. He had just seen Anothany leave him, and did not detect any danger as he was left alone with Neri. He thought all was forgiven and he was a trusted member. He ran away from Michael the night in Cuba when he received the kiss of death. He didn't expect to be shot. He thought that finally Michael had forgiven him and he was safe at last from any harm coming to him.

Thanks turnbull, that is what threw me off a little is that why is Al running the boat. If it was some no name guy it would be easier to see the thinking but when you have Michaels bodyguard running boats for you thats what made me think.

Tunbull,
I'm not so sure that the authorities would be looking all that hard for Fredo. After all, who would report him missing? He had no family, except for The Family, and how would they track his last known whereabouts? Al, Connie and Michael were the only ones who knew that he was last seen on the boat, and I doubt that they would be so anxious to tell. Anthony knew, but he would be willing to accept whatever explanation his father gave him for Fredo disappearing from their lives.

I was recently in Toronto and there was an article in the newspaper about a man who had been found dead in his bed. The last time he was seen was TWO YEARS AGO!! He lived alone and was on disability, so he didn't have a job. Therefore, there was nobody to notice when he didn't show up for work. I would think that there had to be some way, such as his phone or electric bills were unpaid, but I guess they would just shut them off. He certainly didn't notice if the lights didn't go on!! I did wonder about whoever delivered his mail. I know if I go away for a week, I have a mountain of mail to go through, so can you imagine a few years?

My point is, if nobody reports him missing, would Al really need to worry about Fredo's body surfacing in the lake?

Yes, he was. And it wasn't all that stupid an assumption. Once embraced by his brother I think it was understandable for him to believe he was forgiven.


That's it, that's what he was doing.

"Dear God...please find a way to spare my life and oh, while you're at it help me to reel one in. I'd DIE of shame if after bragging about this prayer thing I had to face my nephew without having caught one lousy fish!..."



Apple

This topic + Appleonya = never ending debate

Wow,this is a first,I'm the only one who thinks he did,if not know,that have a strong suspicion. Despite him being incredably dull,he had to have picked up some things from Vito. Like I said before Al is an important guy,much too important to be a boat chauffer,and if Fredo can tie his shoes,he would have noticed this.If Michael all the sudden appointed him "in charge of the boats" Fredo would have had to notice something wasnt right.Even if he wasnt 100% sure,"Al's going to kill me right now" he wasnt totally ignorant to the fact either.

You either know or you don't.

And he didn't.

If Fredo wasn't 'totall ignorant to the fact'...then he might've been just a tad more nervous about going out on the lake with Al. Dull as he was, if he had even a suspicion of what might be about to happen he might have made some excuse that he wouldn't go fishing if Anthony couldn't be with him. Al couldn't blow him away right then & there with Anthony & Connie looking on. It might've bought him more time to go & plead with Michael or at least TRY and get away, even if he knew they might eventually catch up with him.

But no, he didn't know a single thing. Fredo just wasn't the type to go and accept his end so peacefully.

Nope.

Apple

Not necessarily.Not everything is black and white. Even a guy like Fredo would have had to evaluate the situtation and know there was not a good possibility the he was not coming back from that particular fishing trip.
What is he supposed to do run to Michael and say "Please,please dont kill me.I swear I'll change,Ive learned that I have the strengh to change. "But in all seriousness,what would that help?Nothing.Michael was set in his ways,pleading would have done nothing. Fredo already tried running,that got him far.

i think that he knew he was going to be shot when connie shouted antoney in.as he said to al "ok lets go al" where else would they be going just the two of them not fishing thats for sure.

Why not?

Apple

they wasnt the best of friends cant see them going fishing together

they wasnt the best of friends cant see them going fishing together

Fredo had it comeing. What was he thinking

Actually, Fredo said hello to Al at mama's wake and Al somewhat awkwardly returned the gesture.

They may not have been the best of friends, but certainly were not enemies. Al was a trusted member of the 'Family'. If he was asked to accompany a Corleone on a fishing trip, then that's what he did.

Anyway...the idea was not that minus Anthony the two of them would be 'fishing together'. Far as Fredo was concerned, Al was there to bring out the boat. May have happened that way dozens of previous fishing trips.

Look, what's with you people? Even the stoic Tessio suffered a mili-second of panic when he realized the end was near. There is no way on earth the cowardly, naieve Fredo would have just realized he was about to be murdered and calmly said...let's go Al, then even more calmly thrown out a line and recited the Hail Mary. It's just not what Fredo was made of.

He just didn't know.

Apple

After Connie calls Anthony off the boat to go to Reno with his father, listen to Fredo mutter, "Ah shit." Listen to the resignation in his voice when he says "Let's go Al."

He knew.

He didn't know until that moment, but he knew.

Sure, and Fredo paniced too.What's he going to do,run screaming off the boat?Or,as you've suggested before,he could just say he didnt want to go, they'd go some other time,etc but there is now way Mike would have let him get anywhere near the edge of the compound.The end was near and Fredo knew it.

I don't think he knew.

He ran from Michael in Havana, and he would have run from Al, too, if he thought he was about to go on his last cruise.

When Connie called Anthony back, Fredo could have easily said "You know what, Al? I really wanted to take Anthony fishing, but since he can't go, let's make it some other time."

If he was smart enough to know, he would have said something like that.

But he was stupid, and had no clue.

The "Ah shit." ... was more disappointment at Anthony not being able to join him fishing. The resignation in his voice is because he's going fishing anyway...but without his nephew (to whom he promises he'll catch a fish using that secret prayer).

He didn't know.

Apple

He was a basket case because his beloved mother was dead and he wanted desperately to talk to his brother the Don who had made him (deservedly so) an outcast. Still...he managed a friendly hello to Al which Al somehow managed to return. (though Connie's gleaming look to Al may have had some influence on his courteous response to Fredo).

No, he didn't panic because he didn't know, and yes if he had known that's probably EXACTLY what he would've done; rushed off the boat. He wouldn't have been worring about whether or not Mike would let him near the edge of the compound, because he'd be busy trying to save his own skin. And ... to avoid having his son witness any chaos and subsequent harm to Fredo, Michael WOULD have allowed Fredo to go, confident he'd eventually be hunted down anyway. Fredo would not have thought this way and just decide to 'get it overwith'.

Look, people...if this helps ANY of you look at this from Michael's POV. The whole point of this being carried out under the guise of a quite fishing trip was that so Fredo would be relaxed, unaware and completely unprepared for the end. He made a show of forgiving Fredo in front of the entire family. He didn't want Fredo to know of his inevitable fate.

If none of this works for you, then keep watching the film and PAY ATTENTION to the characters and the dialogue for another 10 years or so...you'll eventually come around.

Till then (as Krlea kindly reminds us)...I'm happy to do continue to do my part to set y'all straight.

Yes, the end was near and no, Fredo didn't know it.



Apple

You know the more I see this subject the more I laugh.

What do you think, just because they didn't show the three of them going fishing a hundred times in the movie that they didn't do this often? I think Fredo like to be with Anthony. I think he found less pressure being with the kid. Times were relaxed by the time they went fishing.

Just because one scene follows another one in the movie doesn't mean that it happens right away, it may be months later?

Believe what you want. It is a movie.

Keep them in line Apple, we can't let things slide around here.

In addition...we (and Fredo) are set up for the shooting on the lake by the earlier scene in which Fredo and Anthony are together and fishing, and Fredo talks about the secret Hail Mary.

All are lulled into believing that everything's ok between Fredo and the Family, and he can relax and spend idle time with his nephew. He's content...and we are content for him.

No, Neri isn't with them until the last one...but like fathhersson states, doesn't mean the 3 of them didn't take the same boat out onto the lake several times before.

Oh...and Fredo didn't know.

Apple

He knew. Up until that point he was under the impression that all was forgiven. But when Connie calls Anthony away, he realizes that he's in an inescapable situation. Alone in a boat with Al Neri, and the rest of the family gone from the compound. Twice before, Mike had used last-minute changes of travel plans to get his victim alone for the killing (Tessio and Carlo). When Mike once again makes a last-minute change of plans leaving Fredo alone with the Corleones' top enforcer, he must have known that was it. I believe Fredo was smaht enough to figure that out. Not like everybody says, like dumb. He was smaht, and he knew.