Then they need a new one, just like the Arabic world needs one. Btw, did the Arabs ever had an Enlightment?

Then they need a new one, just like the Arabic world needs one. Btw, did the Arabs ever had an Enlightment? [/b][/quote]Not just Arabs, everyone living in Islamic countries need that. So does the religious right in the US.

Islam is almost 1400 years old. It's about time that such a period begins.

Yeah, I know, but since their territories kinda overlap each other, I hoped no one would notice. Damn, you.

But for the rest, you're absolutely right.

If you look at the correct definition of Marriage, it is, as instituted by God, a faithful, exclusive, lifelong union of a man and a woman joined in an intimate community of life and love.

But I have a question for you, since you are in favor of Gay marriage, how could a Homosexual union not contradict the nature of marriage?

Gay marriage simply can't cooperate with God to create new life; it is immoral, ugly and wrong. The natural purpose of sexual union can't be achieved by a same-sex union.

Do you think it can?

The Bible clearly says that Homosexuality is immoral, wrong and unnatural and that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of God.

"Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Romans 1:26-27.

Because we live in a freak world. See this freako now was about to marry his horse?


It might be 90% the general heterosexual population at the moment, but with these news laws allowing Gay marriages, traditional marriage will be affected by Gay marriage. But I am sure the message shouldn't be hard to understand; after all when Gay marriage becomes totally legal, it will ruin every contrast of Western civilization.

Marriage isn't just a commitment between two individuals plus some papers signed; it is both a natural commitment and a sacred union because it is rooted in the divine plan for creation.

Don't tell me you wouldn't be shy to tell your best friend at school that your Father is Gay? Isn't it different from everybody else?

I'd pee my pants off.

The intolerant view of homosexuality that some members of society have that you mean is the same that my parents used to have over myself hanging out with friends who smoke cigarettes: it is wrong. Because they may influence me in starting to smoke, it is wrong.

Why is it wrong?

Because it's unhealthy and may influence my life and future with serious Health problems.

Is GAY marriage really a decent act?

:rolleyes:

Decent or not, if they don't violate other's rights, they can do what they are pleased to because decent is subjective. If you can't make an argument as how marriage of gay people could violate your rights, then it is fine by me if two gay people get married.

Whats the governments stance on gay marriage in Iran?


DS

They hang you for being gay. Remember, it is an Islamic regime here. :rolleyes:

Well, Vito.....

If you want to give me all the religious arguments against gay marriage, I can't argue those points.

But, of course, I don't think that religious arguments should be considered.

I believe that our laws should be free of religious influence.

The only thing that matters, as I see it, is the right of people to do as they wish as long as exercising those rights do not interfere with the ights of others.

Just one example, if I may: The Bible speaks against sodomy, which includes, among other things, oral-genital contact. Should that be illegal as well?

You still haven't told me how traditional marriage will be affected by gay marriage.

Will fewer heterosexual couples marry? Will their marriage now mean les to them? Will they have fewer children? Will the divorce rate increase?

Again, how exactly will gay marriage affect heterosexual marriage?


You don't really know how you would feel if your parents were both gay, do you?

Neither do I, of course, but I'd suggest that perhaps, being brought up by two gay parents for your entire life would seem like the most natural thing in th world, and you wouldn't have a problem telling people.

You would have been brought up in an environment in which being a homosexual was nothing to be ashamed of, so why would you have a problem telling people?

Yes, I imagine that there would be some children who might be ashamed of the fact, but I don't consider it to be a big deal.

If a black man marries a white woman, and their child is white, would the child be ashamed that her father is black?

Some would, some wouldn't.

BTW, when you say you would "pee your pants off", are you speaking of what would happen if you had t tell someone your father was gay, or if someone told you that their father was gay?

As far as influencing the behavior or personalities of the children, I hope that you're not suggesting that there's more of a likelihood of the child growing up to be gay. Studies have shown this not to be the case.

I guess that there are a lot of closet homosexuals there then.


DS

I don't understand the above.....

I mean, I imagine that there are, but what does that have to do with the discussion?

I asked Afsthana what the her government felt about Gay Marriage. She said that they hang people in her country for being gay. So my reply about there being a lot of closet homosexuals was a reply to her post about hanging gays in Iran.


DS

Ah.....I get it now. You didn't quote her, and your post didn't follow hers, so I was confused.

An important question for people from the USA:

What is more important, God or Freedom?

I believe that freedom is the highest good. Everyone should be free to be able to believe whatever they want, as long as they are not damaging others / other peoples freedom.

The problem with gods is, that people who have a firm religious belief, tend to have a desire to impose their god and their god's beliefs on others.

If I want you to be free to believe in your god, I should be granted the same freedom in return.

Conclusion: If the USA would really love and promote freedom, they would allow gay marriage for this is up the the persons it concerns. Even if you believe in a god, you can't speak for him/her/it (not even if you quote the bible, thora or koran for these books have been written, translated and re-written by humans, it is not a first hand source from whatever god it claims to be) for you are not GOD, are you?

So not allowing people their most desired wish, which is marrying the person they love with al their heart, is civilized?

Strange definition of civilization you have there. But hey, there's freedom of speech, no?

Sigh, when will people learn? IMO, never.

Other passages say something different, and they're larger in number.

If I were gay, and otherwise too, I'd prefer to be happy and marry the person I love, and not entering this kingdom of God.
(Btw, for me there is no God, since I don't believe in him/her/it.)

This is exactly my point on quoting books such as the bible, there are so many quotes to choose from, you can always find one that fits your argument.

Don't mix the power of reason with the power of religion in case you value it for religion has to do with belief, not with reason.

Example: It also says in the bible that you may beat your slave (!) but not till death, unless of course he / she stole from you.

AAh, now you're gonna tell me not to take this particular passage literally, but I should the one that fits your argument? That's not a fair trade and I do belief that all people should be treated equal in equal cases (Don't most gods of the most popular religions all agree with this, loving all their subject equally the same?).

Exactly, one of the problems when there's a discussion with people who use religious arguments.
I believe the arguments should be in favour of people in general, so they can be happy and enjoy life. And not in favour of what some god wishes.

I agree with Vito on just one point that the child will face a lot of discrimination. I am not an expert on this, but I 'feel' that being subjected to constant ridicule can lower the self esteem of the child and in turn affect his/her behavior and personality. He/She may even have problems interacting with society. Let us not talk about exceptions. In your opinion, will the above described problem affect 'majority' of kids having Gay parents? I think it will, what do you think?

Do you believe gay couples should be allowed to adopt young children? Now the child is someone who is not in a position to make choices. What if the child grows up to not like the idea of gay parents? Is his/her rights not involved in this? It is no longer mere 'pursuit of happiness' as Plaw puts it. Ofcourse you can also argue that a child adopted by straight parents might also grow up to dislike the idea of having non-biological parents, but I think that is less likely to happen. Or at the very least a study should be made about the effects of homosexual parents on a child over a period that covers till adulthood and be made available to public, before one can make reasonable laws.

This discussion is only about gay marriage. I don't know if it is okay to extend it to them being able to adopt a child or not, but I go ahead and do.

I think it is okay if the parents be evaluated and be qualified on basis of economical and emotional requirements children are going to need just like a straight couple should be evaluated. I think I'd rather have two moms or dads than being raised in an orphanage.

We all have experienced schools; they can be very tough places. There is always something that number of kids can find to make fun of you. Your skin color, your grades, your parents or yourself being fat, ugly, poor, wearing glasses and so on and so forth... It is not just having gay parents. No child is safe from those who have the habit to make fun of everyone. Maybe if I were gay, and my child was bothered by some kid at school because I'm gay; he or she is better off not to socialize with those kids anyway, because I want him or her to socialize with more open minded people.

I was made fun of for studying too hard, not having the best stationery everyone else could afford and things I don't remember anymore because those kids were not important to me after giving the situation a little thinking. They are always there to make fun of you no matter what. Children either face this fact or have courage problems for the rest of their lives, regardless of what they might have or have not.

About the children not liking the idea of having gay parents, what about the children raised in vegan families? They don't have much choice either about eating meat, but we certainly can't make parents give meat to their children if they are not willing to, there have been healthy children raised on vegan diet. I think we should think beyond our customary ways of life and accept that just like there could be gay children raised in straight families, there could be straight children raised in gay ones.