AHHHHH....THERE it is!!!!



Apple

Almost as bad as the news department hyping a story.

Dan Rather, just shut up and retire already.

The problem with the debates Plawrence is getting tired of, is that they are worthless. Both sides--both--go in already with an answer, and with not an inch of openness in their mind. They shed their opinion and jump on anybody who tries to change it.

Plawrence is the most patient and, as far as writing goes, most lucid debater in his arguments. He is logical and profound at opening up massive holes in others' arguments, which are always avoided, sidestepped, ignored.

As much patience as he has, however, I can't see why he would enjoy banging his head against the political wall as much as he has. If I were him, I would be pissed off with fellow liberals also, but then I'd take a step back and ask--what are they seeing that I'm not? The answer would be that they're seeing what a whole load of stalemating bullshit this kind of business is.

Political debates are tit-for-tat with no openness involved. Perhaps that is because most of the debating is from Americans (that would be citizens of the United States of America). A note to be taken: the sun moves round the Earth, not your country. Narrow-minded isolationism isn't just affecting your foreign policies, but also your "debates" within your own politics.

Thanks for reading,
Mick

Ouch.

Couldn't have said it any better myself!

If you call, "How would you feel if you were the parent of a pedophile..." an example of logical and profound argument capable of opening up massive holes, then you are in far worse shape.

While I agree with all that many self proclaimed liberals are really nice people who mean well at all times...that admirable trait simply does not make for a decent argument. And it is why their side is losing, losing, LOSING!!!!

I will say ONE thing for DonFerro who's posts I now look forward to...he is not afraid of expressing the true feelings of himself as well as the extremists of his party. He does not hide under a cloak of friendliness and wishy washy emotions. He tells it like it is, and he freely admits that this is the WAY he is. And while posts from him HAVE been scarce lately...he did not bother to announce his retreat with the complaint that nobody's helping him out.

So let her rip, DonFerro !!! And the one useful result of this entire thread is that the self-imposed retirement of another may have at least beckoned you from out of the woodwork.

For a while, anyway.

Apple

But that's why they are called debates. Because both sides go in with what they think are the answers. And if it's your opinion that debates are worthless. then that is fine. To me they are not worthless. Civil debates can be educational and open minded people can learn from them. Your generalizing everyone as not being open minded is wrong. There are several members here that I think always debate with respect and are open minded in their debates. I've seen people like Plawrence, The Italian Stallionette, Afsaneh, Don Cardi and a few others post and debate in a respectful manner.

As for your remark about my narrow minded isolationist country, well you seem to have come here with the answer already, so why bother. :rolleyes:


DS

Touché.

I didn't realize how that sounded when I wrote it.

And retire already! :p :p


Don Cardi

This is like the Cher retirement.... :p

Hear hear Turi

The point of debating is surely that you bring your pre-formed ideas to a discussion, you speak, you listen, you try to reason with people, you supply evidence for your point of view. At the end of it all, even if neither side has changed their mind, you are all at least more educated than you were before you started. And you got to express the way you see the world. This might work. It would be so much more satisfying and constructive.

Soapboxes, namecalling, dismissal of people's arguments before giving them a fair hearing... Why would Plaw or anybody else want to stick around for that?

The most important thing as far as I can see, is yes, being brave and stating your opinions, however unpopular they may be - but being grown up enough to express them in a respectful manner. I'd rather read a hundred tentative political posts from TIS than a single line from an unnecessarily offensive post. I'm just can't see how being rude or pedantic makes anyone's point of view more valid (or more appealing to consider) JMO

I am so very sorry to see that this thread has deteriorated so far beyond its original intent. I must agree with PLaw about being tired of the more political threads. It seems that one cannot post their opinion without being called a murderer or unpatriotic or, worse, a LIBERAL . It gets rather sickening after awhile, as if those of us who have such views might as well pack a bag and get ready to be eating dinner with Hitler at Satan's table.

PLaw, I hope that you don't retire, because I feel that certain freedoms deserve defending, and those who make iintelligent and thought-provoking statements in their defense are needed.

Hell, I think I saw this dead horse moving. Lets kick it around some more and see what happens.

I'll bump it, hehe.

Since this has also turned into a bit of a "kiss Plaw's ass" thread, allow me to say that I love Apple. Whether she is green or red. :p

Thanks, guys. The last two posts prove that this has run its course and now its time to say, "goodbye".


Goodbye. (and closed).