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How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16231
07/11/04 12:01 AM
07/11/04 12:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11
D
Don Cannoli Offline OP
Wiseguy
Don Cannoli  Offline OP
D
Wiseguy
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Posts: 11
In GF2, when Michael's black-hatted bodyguard was about to kill a comatose Roth in his hospital bed, the Cuban military (or a police unit) was there to stop him. How did they know Roth was in danger? Who tipped them off?

Did Fredo have anything to do this (remember Michael told him earlier that Roth would not see the new year). And why would they even bother to get involved? I realize that Roth had friends in high places in the Cuban governement, and that they would want to protect Roth, but with the government toppling and the president stepping down that same night, you would think they had more important things to worry about than protecting a crony like Roth.

Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16232
07/11/04 12:47 AM
07/11/04 12:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,519
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

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Posts: 19,519
AZ
Welcome, Don Cannoli. Good question!
Among the possibilities:
--Fredo, at the Presidential palace, skulked off. Michael asks him where he's going and Fredo says, "I'm gonna get me a real drink..." Perhaps Fredo went off to find a phone to call a Cuban official whom he might have met previously, to warn of Michael's plan to kill Roth, and to add urgency because Roth hadn't shown at the palace. In the very next scene, we see the elite-looking military double-time to Roth's hospital room and shoot the bodyguard, so perhaps there's a connection.
--Roth's wife, after leaving the hospital, probably returned to their hotel suite. She would have discovered Johnny Ola's body and, suspecting more foul play, called one of Roth's Cuban government pals to set the military guard into action.
--Batista (the President of Cuba), knowing that his government was about to crumble, in a last act of generousity toward his old friend and associate from Florida, dispatched the military to the hospital to make sure that Roth got out ok.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16233
07/11/04 06:22 AM
07/11/04 06:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence Offline
RIP StatMan
plawrence  Offline
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The Slippery Slope
As usual when this topic comes up, I can only add the following:

While I really don't have a theory which I'm crazy about (Turnbull's #2 or #3 are OK, I guess), I don't believe that it was Fredo's doing.

At that point, the best thing in the world for him would be to have Roth and Ola dead, taking what he thought was the secret of his betrayal with them. Why help try to keep either alive?


"Difficult....not impossible"
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16234
07/11/04 07:51 AM
07/11/04 07:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,602
Yunkai
afsaneh77 Offline
Mother of Dragons
afsaneh77  Offline
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Yunkai
I had always thought of the second possibility. I agree with Plawrence here. Fredo didn't seem to be willing to cooperate with Roth and Ola anymore. He even told Ola to never call him again. Unless he found out about the stupid comment he made at that stage show and thought Roth is his only option to escape Michael's vengeance. But do you think he find out before that kiss of death? I guess not. rolleyes


"Fire cannot kill a dragon." -Daenerys Targaryen, Game of Thrones
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16235
07/11/04 12:20 PM
07/11/04 12:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,519
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

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AZ
Logically, plawrence and afsaneh are right: Since Fredo previously told Johnny Ola that he was pissed off and wouldn't cooperate further, he'd have no logical incentive to call the Cuban authorities to rescue Roth. Logically, a dead Roth was a Roth who couldn't rat out Fredo's betrayal. But logic may have had nothing to do with Fredo's behavior. He was "weak and stupid," as Michael said earlier. A combination of panic and resentment of his brother may have pushed Fredo to try to rescue Roth.
I'm not in love with that theory, either--I just think it's possible. The Trilogy has many examples of stupid, weak people behaving illogically. Did Carlo really think that Michael wouldn't figure out the connection between his beating Connie and Sonny's assassination? Did Paulie Gatto think that no one would make a connection between his absence and the attempt on Vito's life?
Afsaneh: Very interesting point about Fredo possibly having realized his fatal slip of the tongue before the kiss of death. I doubt it, but it could be!


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16236
07/11/04 12:58 PM
07/11/04 12:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,595
fathersson Offline
Underboss
fathersson  Offline
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With the money that Roth threw their way, of course they were going to get Roth out of Cuba. What do you think he paid the big $$ for. Special treatment. They knew where their meal ticket was and everyone knew what they needed most as the country was going down. A man with money.


ONLY gun owners have the POWER to PROTECT and PRESERVE our FREEDOM.
"...it is their (the people's) right and duty to be at all times armed" - Thomas Jefferson, June 5, 1824

Everyone should read. "HOW TO KILL A MOCKING BIRD"

CAUTION: This Post has not been approved by Don Cardi.

You really don't expect people to believe your shit do you?

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Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16237
07/11/04 08:19 PM
07/11/04 08:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence Offline
RIP StatMan
plawrence  Offline
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The Slippery Slope
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
Afsaneh: Very interesting point about Fredo possibly having realized his fatal slip of the tongue before the kiss of death. I doubt it, but it could be!
I don't think so, either. Fredo was good and drunk and babbling away by the time the group got to the Superman show.

He never knew he had given himself away.


"Difficult....not impossible"
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16238
07/11/04 09:22 PM
07/11/04 09:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 152
Sicily, NYC
Santino Felice Offline
Made Member
Santino Felice  Offline
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Sicily, NYC
yea plawrence you got a good point there


"Well you just do what I tell you to do! Goddamn it! If I had a wartime consiglieri -- a
Sicilian -- I wouldn't be in this shape! Pop had Genco -- look what I got." - Sonny Corleone
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16239
07/12/04 05:25 AM
07/12/04 05:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 456
sthlm, Sweden
Alberto_Neri Offline
Capo
Alberto_Neri  Offline
Capo
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Posts: 456
sthlm, Sweden
I think that the Fredo-option is the most likely one. First because this is the only alternative that we are given hints for, like the real drink scene.

And while reading this thread, another thing came to my mind. It is true that Fredo didnt want anything to do with Johnny Ola and Roth after the Tahoe assasination attempt. But remember that Fredo knew that they got Pentangeli. This could mean that he had been further cooperating with them. Or maybe they used him again without his knowledge, because after all, he was weak and stupid...


"After all, we're not communists"
- Barzini
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16240
07/12/04 10:30 AM
07/12/04 10:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence Offline
RIP StatMan
plawrence  Offline
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The Slippery Slope
Quote
Originally posted by Alberto_Neri:
remember that Fredo knew that they got Pentangeli. This could mean that he had been further cooperating with them.
Very good point. He also knew abouth the Senate lawyer, Questadt, being on Roth's payroll.


"Difficult....not impossible"
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16241
07/12/04 10:38 AM
07/12/04 10:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,519
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

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Posts: 19,519
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by Alberto_Neri:
I think that the Fredo-option is the most likely one. First because this is the only alternative that we are given hints for, like the real drink scene.

And while reading this thread, another thing came to my mind. It is true that Fredo didnt want anything to do with Johnny Ola and Roth after the Tahoe assasination attempt. But remember that Fredo knew that they got Pentangeli. This could mean that he had been further cooperating with them. Or maybe they used him again without his knowledge, because after all, he was weak and stupid...
Quote
Originally posted by plawrence:
Very good point. He also knew abouth the Senate lawyer, Questadt, being on Roth's payroll.
Perhaps. But by the time Fredo told Michael, "They got Pentangeli..." Michael and everyone else knew Pentangeli had survived. There's no indication that Fredo knew that Pentangeli had survived, and was in government custody, before Michael found out.
It does seem that Michael might not have known that the Senate lawyer, Questadt, was on Roth's payroll before Fredo told him. Could be that Roth and/or Ola told Fredo about Questadt before Fredo got disillusioned with them.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16242
07/13/04 05:15 PM
07/13/04 05:15 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
UnderBoss Offline
Capo
UnderBoss  Offline
Capo
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
Personally I always just assumed that when the president announced his withdrawl from power, he extended one last jesture to his good friend Roth by sending a military escort to take him out of the country. After all the ex-president would still be a fairly influential person, given he survives especially with all his connections. So, I've always figured he probibly sent his cronies to protect Roth and get him out alive.

Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16243
07/14/04 05:39 PM
07/14/04 05:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7
Oklahoma
M
Marcos Offline
Associate
Marcos  Offline
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Associate
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Oklahoma
I hate to give such a simple answer with all the conspiracy stuff about Fredo but after watching the movie twice in the last two days this question came over me so I checked. It appears that when the black dressed character (which by the way would be kind of a tipoff that he might do something deadly since he looks like death) comes into the room there's no one in particular watching, but there are people in the next room.

As he's about to smother Roth, one of the nurse types seems to be leading the military people into the room. In other words, she spotted him. He thought no one was looking, someone was. Why were the military types there in the first place? I think there were nearby to guard Roth and Micheals assassin thought he had an opportunity with the party in the next room.

Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16244
07/14/04 09:44 PM
07/14/04 09:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
Don Sonny Corleone Offline
Underboss
Don Sonny Corleone  Offline
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Desolation Row
Are you suggesting the "black dressed character" tipped off Roth that he was going to be killed? confused He's Mike's bodyguard! Somehow I dont think it was him. If I misread your post, ignore me.


If winners never lose, well, then a loser sure can sing the blues.
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16245
07/15/04 12:31 AM
07/15/04 12:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,519
AZ
Turnbull Online content
Turnbull  Online Content

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,519
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by Marcos:
As he's about to smother Roth, one of the nurse types seems to be leading the military people into the room. In other words, she spotted him.
Seemed to me, the nurse was enjoying herself and ignoring Roth until she saw the military marching down the coridor double-time. Then she came to attention.
You'd think that Michael's bodyguard, with his heavy black hat, heavy black sweater, and wilted, mangy flowers, would stand out like a sore thumb in that hospital. But it was fun-loving Cuba on New Year's Eve...


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: How did the Cuban government know Roth was about to be hit? #16246
07/15/04 01:01 AM
07/15/04 01:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 68
NY
Mickey Offline
Button
Mickey  Offline
Button
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Posts: 68
NY
Ya know, I honestly can't argue with any of these theories. However, there is one question that still remains unanswered: Where WAS Fredo going? It's obvious he wasn't really going to get himself a real drink - he was up to something.

There are 2 things about that scene that don't make sense: Where was Fredo going, and where did the military guys come from? It just seems logical to me to put 2 and 2 together and say that Fredo alerted them.

When you think about it, though, the theory that has the president sending an escort to get Roth out safely makes the most sense.


You straightened my brother out?

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