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Fanucci and Michael #15632
06/29/04 04:10 PM
06/29/04 04:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 146
Rhode Island
AllAboutTheFamily Offline OP
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AllAboutTheFamily  Offline OP
Made Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 146
Rhode Island
In GFII, in the flashback scene, just befor Vito kills Fanucci, Fanucci is roaming the streets through the Festa. He stops to watch a puppet show. He watches for a little while and after some violance, Fanucci says "Oh this is too violant for me" with a smile on his face.
Now, in GFIII, Michael is with Kay roaming the streets of Sicily, and they, too, come across a puppet show. Michael looks at the show for a while and notices, in the puppet show, how the father is killing the daughter for loving her cousin. Soon after, Michael and Kay walk off.

Now think about this. Imagine if Michael, just after seeing the father puppet kill the daughter puppet, says "Kay, this play is too violant for me" and then, with one of those cool smiles of Michael's, he walks off with his hands behind his back. Kay looks at him with a smile, wondering why such a little thing would be violant towards a man who would kill his own brother.
That extention would say so much towards the character of Michael. It would show how Michael turned into the same thing Vito fought to save his family. It would show that Michael, deep down inside, would still love Mary even if she stayed with Vincent. It would just add to the reason's why Kay is beginning to reconcile with Michael. It would show, even more how Kay is ignorant to most of Michael's business in a symbolic sort of way. It would forshadow Mary's death. And, in comparrison to Fanucci, it would forshadow Michael's "death" because with Mary dead and his family leaving him, he definately feels dead.

I just realized this last night. I was watching the movie and I was half asleep. I was thinking of Fanucci, and was expecting Michael to say "this is too violant for me". Then I thought "DUH!-Fanucci says that". then I began to think, what if Michael did say that.

Please respond and tell me what you think.


"I'd rather laugh with the sinners then cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun."-Billy Joel
Re: Fanucci and Michael #15633
06/29/04 04:37 PM
06/29/04 04:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

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New Jersey
Personally, I don't think we need things laid out in that much detail. It would be insulting to the audience and it would be too messy and unnecessary a story to tell.

We already know Michael's 'character'. We already know he'll always love Mary, no matter what or no matter what he says. We know that Kay is NOT ignorant to Michael's business, even though she once may have been.

Though an obvious takeoff on the Fanucci puppet show scene, the one with Michael and Kay seems to say alot in its subtlety. Why add more?

And does anyone understand that this whole 'reconcilliation' business between Michael and Kay...was specifically fabricated and written for the viewing pleasure of the GF/GFII audience. It sort of warmed our hearts to see them spending quiet time together. More mature, friends, but no longer in love. A nice closure after the harshness of having seen him slam that door on her years earlier in GFII. Only to have the real life of Michael's business bust in with the news of Don Tomassino's death.

Anyway, to get back to the original question...I don't think that puppet scene needed any more detail.

Well, you did ask for thoughts....

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Fanucci and Michael #15634
06/29/04 04:45 PM
06/29/04 04:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 146
Rhode Island
AllAboutTheFamily Offline OP
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AllAboutTheFamily  Offline OP
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Rhode Island
Well i think that it would just add more depth. For one thing, I have never heard Michael being referred to Fanucci but this would definately make viewers think about how Michael really destroyed what his father made. Now, yes we already realize this, but the extra line would just elaborate more on it. It also would have been interesting to compare Michael to Fanucci

Some of the other reasons, to did not have to be all layed out for the viewer, but it wouldn't hurt.

But I do like to hear critisism, so I thank you for the reply


"I'd rather laugh with the sinners then cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun."-Billy Joel
Re: Fanucci and Michael #15635
06/29/04 09:38 PM
06/29/04 09:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
Don Sonny Corleone Offline
Underboss
Don Sonny Corleone  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,249
Desolation Row
Quote
Originally posted by AllAboutTheFamily:

That extention would say so much towards the character of Michael. It would show how Michael turned into the same thing Vito fought to save his family.
What about Michael has turned into Fannucci? We never see Michael extort a free-lance robber. Just curious to your reasoning.


If winners never lose, well, then a loser sure can sing the blues.
Re: Fanucci and Michael #15636
06/29/04 09:46 PM
06/29/04 09:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi Offline
Caporegime
Don Cardi  Offline
Caporegime

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Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
Quote
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
And does anyone understand that this whole 'reconcilliation' business between Michael and Kay...was specifically fabricated and written for the viewing pleasure of the GF/GFII audience. It sort of warmed our hearts to see them spending quiet time together. More mature, friends, but no longer in love. A nice closure after the harshness of having seen him slam that door on her years earlier in GFII. Only to have the real life of Michael's business bust in with the news of Don Tomassino's death.

Apple
Apple,

I do believe that in the original shoot of GF III and in a never shown un edited version, Michal and Kay actually make love in that little Italian Villa right before they are disturbed with the news about Don Tomassino. I think that FFC wanted to show that through it all, deep down, Kay could not help but still love Michael.

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Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.




Re: Fanucci and Michael #15637
06/29/04 10:53 PM
06/29/04 10:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
johnny ola Offline
Underboss
johnny ola  Offline
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Posts: 1,393
Tampa, Florida
The puppet scene is just one more example of how GFIII is just a hashed over version of I & II for FFC to make a quick buck to buy his vineyard. rolleyes


I love my Chrysler and tuna fish sandwiches.
Re: Fanucci and Michael #15638
06/30/04 05:10 AM
06/30/04 05:10 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
UnderBoss Offline
Capo
UnderBoss  Offline
Capo
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
Personally I think you are being a little too liberal with your analogy. The Mafia, although a criminal organization, was an organization that only killed (in theory, but not in practice) out of punishment and the punishment was usually dealt through an eqivilant means. Killing of family (immediate or relative) by family was thought of as a degenerate means of doing things and would only be a last resort or in the case if a family memeber being a true threat to another. The gravity and dark feeling we get oout of the Freado situation is testiment to that.

Michael didn't do what your character had said because although his character was capable of murder, it was a type of murder that only occured under certain "justifiable" circumstances. Killing of his cousin would be absolutly horrible and degenerate, even if the degenerate was sleeping with his daughter, but may have to have been done if they couldn't be seperated, which is what Mike elluded to in the shaving scene.

Mike didnt' say that simply because his charcter wasn't cold. Fannucci on the other hand was a cold hearted killer and his comment of that was more an ironic twist and a message to whoever heard it, pay up or there will be violence. Michael's reaction to the puppet play is one of disturbance, where the situation hits home a bit. So I think these two puppet show the various character's and their reactions to violence very effectivly.

Re: Fanucci and Michael #15639
06/30/04 08:55 AM
06/30/04 08:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Quote
Originally posted by Don Cardi:
[QUOTE]...I do believe that in the original shoot of GF III and in a never shown un edited version, Michal and Kay actually make love in that little Italian Villa right before they are disturbed with the news about Don Tomassino...
Don Cardi...my position has always been that if it wasn't seen in the final cut, then it didn't happen. You can point out whatever you want about a scene that may or may not have been shot...bottom line is FFC did not include it in the film.

You may be correct in your assumption that FFC originally wanted "..show that through it all, deep down, Kay could not help but still love Michael.", but once editing began he apparently geared away from that decision.

And by the way...loving someone and being IN LOVE with them are two very different things. Until Mary's death it's possible Kay might have always loved Michael, but not necessarily in the romantic way as when they were young.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: Fanucci and Michael #15640
06/30/04 03:41 PM
06/30/04 03:41 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
UnderBoss Offline
Capo
UnderBoss  Offline
Capo
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 316
Toronto, Canada
Good point apple and after all it's all the more tragic that that final reunion didn't fully take place.


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