This is so sad and depressing. I'm not a Catholic (though I will be converting before I get married), but I have always admired the Pope, and he has always been an inspiration to me. While not Catholic (or any specific Protestant religion), I'm still very religious, and because of the position that the Pope holds, and in accordance with my religious beliefs, he will die when God decides. They can remove feeding tubes, starve him, whatever, if God decides its not his time, he'll remain alive (again, this is religously speaking). I hope he makes it, I'll be praying for him.

It's been reported his kidneys are now failing as well. He seems to be slipping away further and further. An old aide of his says in the article below he feels The Pope is ready to die.
_______________________
Pope John Paul signaled he is ready to die by choosing not to return to hospital, his former private secretary said on Friday.

"The fact that he has not gone back to hospital is (shows) that he is serenely carrying the cross and ready to give up and to say 'It is finished'," said John Magee, Bishop of Cloyne in Ireland, who worked for the Pope for nine years and was with him during an assassination attempt in 1981.

The 84-year-old Pope appeared close to death on Friday after heart failure and breathing problems although the Vatican said he was still conscious and in a stable but serious condition.

"The only time he told me that he wasn't going to die was immediately after his being shot in 1981 when he turned to me as he was being put into the ambulance ... He said 'John, this is not the death'," Magee told Irish state broadcaster RTE.

The Pope nearly died from wounds to the stomach and hand after a Turkish gunman shot him during a general audience in St. Peter's Square.

In a book published earlier this year, the Pontiff recalled feeling that he was "already on the other side" after the shooting but felt confident he would survive.

The Pope believes divine intervention saved him from death, guiding the bullet that hit him away from his vital organs.

"He's always been ready to die," Magee said.

"Now that he knows that he is coming to the end of his earthly existence he is looking forward to the reward that is certainly his for having been such a faithful servant of the Lord," Magee said.

The bishop, who held the hand of Pope Paul VI as he died, said Pope John Paul would be surrounded by those close to him.

"With John Paul II, I am sure there is somebody there holding his hand, assuring him that we are with him, we are journeyeing with him to that moment when he will see the Risen Lord before him."

Sure. He has a cerebral cortex.

Do you understand Catholicism?

Do you understand Catholicism? [/b][/quote]From a doctrinal perspective - yes (I am a Baptist, hence my understanding of Catholicism is only at the doctrinal level). But in terms of the protocol for replacing leaders - no I do not. I understand that the pope is the highest ranking member of the Catholic Church. But why there is a tendency for popes to die in office - no, I am ignorant of reasons for those policies. Any insight that you could provide GP would be appreciated please!

No offense was intended for anyone of the Catholic faith. But as an outsider, I cannot see the reason for keeping poeple in positions once they have reached the point where they are neither good to themselves nor any to whom they would try to minister. My view on this is pretty consistent - I have the same perspective on Supreme Court justices. My preference is to see people retire gracefully allowing for knowledge transfer and to say good bye with their eyes open.

So yes any insight on the end of life retirement policy for popes would be very helpful please.

I understand exactly what you are trying to say here, and I am not saying that your thought is wrong. But I think that in the case of a Pope, this is not a "job" for the man in that position, but a chosen "LIFE" Basically it is believed that when someone chooses to become a man of the cloth, they are agreeing to be
Married" to GOD and to devoting their whole life to do the works of GOD until the day that they die. Now it may be true that many Priests go on to retire, but in the case of a Pope, I think that it is a service to GOD until the day that you die. Basically it is a lifetime postion. Again, I am not disputing your thoughts on this, but I am just trying to shed some light on the situation in regards to Catholicism and the postion of the Pope.


Don Cardi

Has any Pope ever retired? I think DC is right.

Thanks for the feedabck gents! I saw today that the pope had thought about his future in 2000; he questioned his ability to handle his duties in light of the onset of Parkinson's. His conclusion was that he should keep going until his time was up - if God wanted him home, then he figured that he would not have survived being shot. Had he stepped down, he would have been the first pope to do a voluntary RIF (reduction in force) in 700 years.

Personally, I think ministers and popes should retire after so many years. Even the Levitical priests had a retirement plan! I've seen countless preachers hang in there until they literally drop dead in the pulpit simply because they think it's "God's will" (a misused phrase if ever there was one!). Baloney. I admire someone like Adrian Rogers (one of our locals), one of the biggest S. Baptist ministers since Spurgeon, who just last month, graciously retired...for no other reason except he'd been doing it for so long. I think that's biblical, and not nearly as arrogant as those who really think they're hangin' in there because God wants 'em to.

I think your view is what is nagging at me. My background is Baptist, and doctrinal views aside, there are organizational practices in Catholicism that are hard for me to understand. I know that all churches have theological, sociologcial and political issues. What I cannot grasp is the practice of serving past the point of being able to truly minister to folks. If you really love your flock, then love them enough to let them go. Without question, the position has world wide status and prestige, but at some point the time comes to walk away from it.

Walking away is hard regardless of your profession (just ask Michael Jordan), but all of us have to deal with the reality that there are some things that we cannot do any more.

That being said, there are some organizations where it is expected that you die with your boots on. I respect that orientation - don't understand it - but still respect it.

I hope that the cardinals make a spiritual and sensible choice as they move forward with the business of the church.