Folks:

Granted the Pope is not Terry Schiavo, but in principle is it any more right or wrong to keep the Pope alive with a feeding tube? You have an elderly man, who has been in poor health for a long time. He has brain activity, in fact he refuses to retire. Is it best to let him live out his days as he wishes, or try to artificially extend his life, with little hope of measureable quality of life improvement? Or does his case represent a special circumstance?

Personally, I would like to see him live out his days as he wishes (although I wish he would retire so that a younger person could continue the work without a major break in service).

Your thoughts please...

He's no different than anyone else. The choice should be his.

BTW, I'm not Catholic so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I had the impression that the Pope can't just "retire".

He can retire (resign) if he feels he can no longer carry out the responsibilities. I think it's been done a few times in history.

I thought this was going to be a bad joke thread. It's not. It's just plain bad.

He should be kept alive according to his personal wishes, and I understand he does have a living will specifying he would want to be kept alive.

That being said, should he hold onto a job as important at being the Pope if he can't communicate? Would you or I still have our jobs if we couldn't perform? I believe I've heard on news recently since he's been ailing that he can't be "fired". Only he can step down. I'm not Catholic, but is it fair to his followers to have a leader who can't lead?

The quality of life "measurement" is where most people get hung up. That quality is very subjective. The Pope - being a very spiritual person - is going to have very different measurement of quality. He is using a scale we can't even fathom.

Can he lead? As his communication skills deteriorate it will become increasingly difficult. Only his closest aids know what and how he communicates. As far as his flock, he is an inspiration to many people and in that respect he leads, but how long that continues and to what degree....time will tell.

There's no comparison. The Pope can still communicate his wishes, and, even if he could not, as Beth says, he has a living will specifying that he be kept alive.

As far as his stepping down? Yes, I believe he should, but I'm really not all that concerned about it (as a Catholic). I don't think the church is suffering from a lack of control right now (barring the molestations of course) because the Cardinals are stepping up and picking up the slack. No big deal.

Wo-hoah. Controversial, I love it.

The circumstances are completely different. The only reason (as far as I've heard) that the Pope is using a feeding tube to eat is due to his tracheotonomy. Not because he isn't of sound mind.

I actually think the Pope died years ago and this is a whole conspiracy. He's now used as a puppet. C'mon people you can see the strings.

I certainly don't think they should remove his breathing tube (he has a feeding tube as well?) IMHO It's one thing if you are dying of cancer or any fatal disease and merely prolonging your life by tubes. However if you are not, and need the assistance breathing/eating, I can't see why they would remove them. Although he is definitely not in good health, and it appears he is possibly at the end, I don't know that he is dying.

As far as him retiring, I don't know the specifics, but I'm sure his aids/confidants and those who work with him would know if he seemed "incapable" to fulfill his duties, but as strong as this Pope is, I also think he is very smart and will retire should he honestly feel he can't continue due to health reasons.

I don't know if everyone knows, but he has Parkinsons and I do think this disease makes him appear even more frail than he may be mentally.

I've always liked this Pope. Of course he's been Pope almost as far as I can remember (last one I remember as a kid was Pope Pius and then I believe one Pope who died within days of his Papal reign). I was so shocked at the assassination attempt on him a couple decades ago (I think the 80's?) Anyway, whether I agree or disagree with every stand he takes on issues, I always thought this Pope had a genuine kindness and sincerity in his words, and a kind face.

TIS

I think it was John Paul I that died within days, but I could be mistaken.

You have it right. John Paul I died in 1978, 33 days after he became Pope. This was "shown" near the end of "Godfather III".

This is different from the Schiavo case. If he says in his living will that he wants to live, then it is so. Whether he should still be pope in his condition that is up to the cardinals at the Vatican.

Plawrence, actually I think the deal of Popes not retiring is simply because tradition is against it. Unless I am mistaken, no Pontiff has ever resigned or stepped down(but instead death claiming them).

Anyway, remember that episode of MR. SHOW where the Pope, implicated in a double brutal murder in L.A., leads the LAPD on a highway chase with his "Pope-Mobile". This coming many months after the infamous O.J. Simpson-chase, it was quite hilarious.

I think that is the predominant statement in your post.

Since the Pope is NOT Terri Schiavo, he is not in a persistent vegetative state and therefore can decide for himself what measures can and cannot be taken with regard to his health.

Also, my understanding from reports is that the feeding tube was inserted NOT to 'keep him alive', but to help with his calorie intake since he has become so frail with the recent illness. I don't think he's stopped eating, nor is he unable to eat.

Would you prefer that the Vatican simply decide they should put this fellow out of his misery and get moving picking a new, younger Pope?

AppleOnYa

The days of Turi G are numbered. Blasphemy!! You heathen. May God have mercy on your blackened soul! :p

Nah, in terms of blashphemy compared me to, Turi G is a punk

Anyway, does anyone know if the Theocratical Christian Constitution allow for if the Pontiff becomes "disabled to perform his duties" but not dead, that a "temporary office-holder" will discharge those duties until the original elected-Pontiff returns to state of apt duty?

Ronnie,

I know there IS a change of power that does allow someone to take over should the Pope not be able to fulfill his duties. I'm not certain of the "change of comman" however, or its guidelines.

TIS

Actually, I just heard on the radio that the Pope's condition has 'worsened' in past few hours.
Urinary tract infection; high fever; drop in BP.

Gosh, I hope everything works out...old and frail as he is, I still cannot fathom losing him. I guess I felt the same way when Pope Paul died...he was there from when I was 2yrs old and couldn't imagine someone else running the show.

And when he did die...I remember it being big, really BIG.

Makes it sort of hard to remember poor Pope John Paul I, the fellow in between who died after only 2 months as Pontiff!!!

Apple

The local ABC News reported that the Pope has received his last rites. Apparently he has developed a high fever due to an infection.

The Pope lives in Rome and we live in America so the laws are different.

Pope Recieves Last Rites

VATICAN CITY (CNN) -- Pope John Paul II was given the last rites of the Roman Catholic Church late Thursday night as his health deteriorated, a Vatican source has told CNN.

The sacrament does not necessarily mean that the pope is dying. Last rites -- also known as the sacrament of anointing the sick -- are commonly given to people who are seriously ill as well. The pope received the sacrament after he was shot by a would-be assassin in 1981.

The pope is suffering from a high fever caused by a urinary tract infection, the Vatican confirmed earlier Thursday -- one day after revealing he had been put on a nasal feeding tube for nutrition.

The pope is taking antibiotics, a Vatican spokesman said.

Medical sources at Gemelli Hospital in Rome, where the pope has been hospitalized twice since February, told CNN that no provisions are being made for the pope to be readmitted for treatment.

Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said in a statement released Wednesday: "To improve his calorific intake and promote an efficient recovery of his strength, nutrition via the positioning of a nasal-gastric tube has begun."

The pope underwent a tracheotomy February 24 and still has a tube inserted in his windpipe to help his breathing.

Earlier Wednesday, the pope appeared at his studio window and blessed the thousands of faithful in St. Peter's Square.

He appeared alert during the four-minute appearance, which drew cheers from the crowd gathered beneath his window.

He raised his hand in blessing and made the sign of the cross as a Vatican official read greetings and prayers.

A microphone was raised to his face as he tried to speak, but the words were not clear.

The pope has spent a total of 28 days in two stints at Gemelli hospital in Rome in the past two months.

Nicola Cerbino, a spokesman at the hospital, said Wednesday that there was no plan to hospitalize the pope.

On Monday the pope skipped the post-Easter Angelus prayer for the first time in his 26-year papacy.

The 84-year-old pope suffers from a number of chronic illnesses, including crippling hip and knee ailments, and Parkinson's disease, a progressive neurological disorder that can make breathing difficult.

Throughout his various illnesses and brushes with death, even after the assassination attempt, the pope always said his life was in God's hands.


The Doc

When one is given Last Rites, that usually means he is very close to death. I wouldn't be surprised if another RIP thread will be posted soon.

The Pope is in Gods hands now it seems.

I don't know a whole lot about Catholicism, but according to CNN (a real reliable news source :rolleyes: ), "last rites" being administered doesn't necessarily mean somebody's nearly dead (although the pope sure don't look well). They claim he was also given last rites when he was shot back in 198_something or another.

Like someone else noted, I think I read, too, that he wants his life extended for as long as possible and by any means necessary (provided no ethical rules are broken, of course). And, like most of y'all, I feel that's his business. He's accountable for his own life and death, as we all are. Me? You could slit my throat today and I'd try to kiss you before my body hit the ground! I don't want to spend any more time here than necessary, especially in light of what I believe regarding eternal life. But that's personal, and I'll keep it that way, so 'nuf said.

I heard from several sources during his recent hospital stay that the Vatican tends to be very secretive about things like this...and can hold back a while before releasing important news.

The Pope may be in even worse shape than is being reported at this very moment.



Apple

Apparently, the Pope suffered Heart Failure and has been just reportedly slipped into a coma. I believe the end is near...

EDIT - Well Reuters is reporting that the Vatican is denying the reports that the Master of Thee Pope-Mobile is in a coma. Stay Tune for more updates from the RRA NEWS NETWORK!

That's sad. I always thought this Pope looked just like an older version of my grandfather.

For me (and for quite a few of us here in our twenties and younger) this is the first time I'll see a new Pope taking the position. It's kind of interesting. What's it like? Is it a big deal all over the world, or just in Europe? Judging by what a big deal it is every time he gets really sick, I imagine it'll be even bigger when he dies.

They say today that he is in "critical" but stable condition.

And Zia, he has been Pope for so long that I think even those of us who lived thru the previous pope/s will probably remember him the most. I simply forgot about Pope John who presided over the Church for quite a few years as well (can't remember how many). Yet, this Pope is very popular.

News commentary said he has met more people than anyone, and that he was the first "television" Pope. Maybe that along with his longevity and stamina and the fact that the guy is just likeable makes him so popular.

TIS

My wife & I were talking about the Pope last night. I remember when the Pope took over, even though I was a kid at the time. He was taking over for a Pope who died after a very short time in the position. And I remember when the Pope was shot in 1981 because it was the same year Hinckley shot Reagan. I was glued to the television even though I was primarily interested only in cartoons at that age.

I hope Pope John Paul II recovers, but I also don't want him to needlessly suffer longer than necessary.

You know I was so shocked that someone would try to kill the Pope. Does anyone remember who or more importantly the motives as to why this person shot at him???? I don't even remember. What possible harm or threat is the Pope to anyone really????


TIS

He was shot in St Peter's Square by a Turkish gunman named Mehmet Ali Agca. I don't know why exactly, except Turkey is a Muslim country so perhaps that had something to do with it.

The Pope met with Mr Agca after he had recovered from the assasination attempt, and offered him forgiveness.

An interesting fact: In May 2000 the Vatican revealed that in 1917 three children in Portugal had seen a prophetic vision of the assassination attempt. This was the so-called third secret of Fatima - kept secret for decades - which was revealed to coincide with a visit by the Pope to the shrine of Fatima. He believed the Virgin of Fatima had saved his life.