That's where I'm torn, the fact that if they allow her to die, they're gonna starve her. I don't care what condition your in, starvation is completely inhumane, and it has to feel utterly painful. It's probably torture at its absolute worse. They say she can last a couple weeks without food or water, but that's not true. Your body can last a few weeks without food, but without water, you won't make it past a few days. Then there's the whole "injection" thing, that I, too, have thought about TIS. But that itself will open up an even bigger can of worms. If they were to allow her to die, would that be the most humane way to do it? Yes, most definitely. But the state giving a lethal injection to someone completely innocent of any crime, and someone so helpless as Terri Schiavo would raise controversy the likes of which we haven't seen in a long time. It's a tough call. All I can say is that if I were in the condition of Terri Schiavo, I wouldn't wanna live, but I also wouldn't wanna die of starvation.

God be with her.

Even if the husband did turn the rights back to her parents isn't he still leagaly married to her? He cannot get a divorce from her. So the only legal way he can move on with his new family is for her to pass away. So what are his true motives here?

This has become barbaric! Denying a person food and water!! Me, if I were down there, no question that I would be in jail! I'm totally disgusted! People should just pull together and storm the damn hospice that she is in! AGGGGHHHHH!


This topic should be RE-TITLED :

Should Teri Schiavo be Denied Food and Water!!!

Don Cardi [/b][/quote]Why don't you 2 go and make a petition for the other people that it happens to every day? Terri isn't the only person right now without a feeding tube. It happens every day. -Pat

This was an obviously troubled girl. There's a certain irony to the fact that she is going to starve to death since she is this way due to medical complications from an eating disorder.

As a society, it would be setting a dangerous precedent to euthanize her with an injection. However, as I said before, I watched my father die a slow and agonizing death from cancer. Basically, he died the same way the Terry is since he was given no feeding tube or other life-support equipment once his body could no longer sustain itself. He had these morphine patches that the hospice gave us. I cannot tell you how badly I wanted to just put them all on him at once so that his pain would be over. It would have been far more merciful.

I don't know enough about the background of the case to guess why Michael Schiavo won't let her parents take over. There are people who have guessed that he would have to relinquish the $1 million settlement he got. However, if she's been like this for 15 years, I would think that a million bucks is chicken feed compared to what it has cost to keep her in that facility.

TIS-

From our past conversations, I know that you are a very compassionate person, and that you, like myself, would do whatever you could to help out another human being. As parents, we both feel the pain that this girl's parents are feeling knowing that their daughter is starving and thirsting to death. I cannot imagine, for the life of me, sitting next to my daughter and not being able to at the very least put a damn Ice Chip to her lips! Outrageous!

Originally when this story first began to gain more attention, I listened to and watched the reports with an open mind. But the last two days for me have been like sitting on a jury. You listen to the evidence and then reach a conclusion. After watching this story for the last few days and hearing nurses' that took care of her and finding out facts that were never even brought out at first, it is just outrageous how this whole situation is being handled! The lack of compassion of some of the people involved in this case is just mind boggling!


Don Cardi

BULL SH*T!

Jesus Christ, my Lord and Zombie Savior, why do we still talk about a non-issue-turned-political-non-issue?

What Would You Do?

Sincerely,

RonnierocketAGO

Ronnie-

Is you post in response to my post? Please elaborate as your response is not really that clear to me.


Don Cardi

UPDATE - saw in a DC newspaper, her husband:

1) has been living with a woman for 10 years
2) has 2 children by her
3) promised he would never divorce his wife (does not mean he would not kill her though)

This adds a new meaning to 'till death do us part'. If he divorces her, he would have to provide alimony as long as she is breathing. If she dies - no alimony, he can remarry and give his kids his name, and get any insurance money from his dead wife. That is why he cannot let her live, even if he is not responsible for her. Her death is in his best interests.

WELL that simplifies things for you, huh?

Anyway Don Cardi, I was pissing on the Overall aspect of this issue. Nothing against you personally.

Well, I appreciate your not pissing on my post. Thank you very much. I certainly see that you are annoyed and bothered by how this whole thing has turned into a political issue. No question about it. That in itself is a real shame.

Don Cardi

This article discusses some of the effects of no food or water on those who are greatly weakened by some existing medical condition. The worries about how horrible "starving her to death" seem misplaced to me since those who voice them have in mind a starving a normal, healthy individual and not one who has no mental function. Her cerebral cortex is liquid. She cannot feel pain, or hunger, or thirst, because there is no consciousness there. Maybe the nerve endings could react in a way that we could define as "pain", but there's no brain there to register it.

However, when thinking of the FAMILY, allowing her to die quickly rather than putting the patient and the family in the unenviable position of watching her die over a period of time is cruel. Even if the patient does not suffer, the family would.

RR_AGO - Yes and no. It helps to understand the husband's true motivation behind this whole thing. On the other hand, as a father it would make me furious to think that my son-in-law would rather see my daughter dead than honor his vows. I respect the husband's right to have the final say - at the marriage ceremony, the father gives away the bride. However, if we start (or continue) to kick people to the curb just because they get in the way of our marriage vows, then what do the vows mean?

So no, by using reductionism to assess this situtation, I am not suggesting that the issues are easy, but what I am suggesting is that the husband's motives are sickenly transparent. Am I the perfect husband? - nope and no husband on this earth is perfect. But to accelerate the death of legal wife for the sake of his common law wife is just a little low - even for the average guy.

But in this life, you shall reap what you sow. This guy could suffer a stroke, get hit by a car, etc. and wind up in the same situation. It would be a shame if his new wife did unto him as he he did unto others ...

Boy, this is just heartwrenching. The third request of the parents (not surprisingly) was denied.

Saladbar, while I have read/heard also that the "victim" who's starving to death supposedly feels no pain, I can't be entirely convinced that even in a vegetative state, one's body doesn't feel thirst and/or hunger pains. Even if this is true, I feel so much compassion for this or any family that I just can't accept this kind of "mercy" killing.

Getting the feel of these parents desperate attempts to hang on and knowing the odds are so against them simply breaks my heart. I know me, and I know I would not give up and would probably do as they are doing. I couldn't bear to say a permanent good-bye to my child.

Damn! I better close now, my eyes are getting teary!


TIS

The more that I watch this, the more convinced I am becoming that this is a real grave injustice! The more I watch this, the more I am convinced, that if tt were my child or sister, they would have me locked up by now!

Side note : Anyone catch the footage of the policeman that arrested those two young children? What a farce! This cop put HANDCUFFS on those two small kids! LOL! What was he afraid that one of the kids would over power him! :rolleyes: What bothered me even more was that this cop patted down and searched this little girl! The kids parents should bring his ass up on charges! A man, a law enforcemnet male, cuffing a little girl and then patting her down! Outrageous!

Where's John Q when you need him!


Don Cardi

Well, I guess they made their point now didn't they.

They used those two kids like any other prop.
and it looks like you took it bait, line and sinker. Those poor officers should not have to be put into this dog and pony show.

Enough with the show and grand standing.

I for one have had enough. Let those who have dragged this out so long, live with what they have done.

I only hope Terri is getting what she really wanted to be done.
And I guess none of us will ever Really know for sure.

any way, If she does pass on, may God have mercy on her and may she Finally have peace in his kingdom.

FS-

With all due respect, as far as those kids and the officers go, it is what it is, and you and I saw it live, with our own eyes! But I'll give you this though, the parents of those kids should NEVER have allowed their chidren to be out in that position in the first place. That in itself was a bit irresponsible on the parent's part, no question. But also those officers did NOT have to pat down those kids bodies, let alone cuff them! C'mon now. But it has turned into a media event, and I don't like that either. A political circus, a media show, it all stinks!!!!! At this point, no matter which side you take, the bottom line is that after 8 days of no feeding tube, no water, we all hope and pray that she does not suffer anymore and that God has mercy on her.


Don Cardi

This whole thing has become a farce, and those scum bag Bush brothers are as much to blame for it as anyone. I didn't see chimp boy leave Crawford to go to Minnesota to console all those victims of the shootings there (Oh, Indians arent part of his base ... never mind).

I don't know, If that is the rules, that you pat down a person when you place them under arrest, then so be it. Age doesn't matter. It is what they are instructed to do in the line of duty.

If not some big shot lawyer would tear them apart if they did something wrong.

If those kids had something on them that could hurt not only an officer but themselves then they must know what they are dealing with. Maybe the kid had a back brace or something, who knows.

Hey, who would have ever thought that a 4 year old would take a gun to day care, but he did. I am not saying that these kids were armed, But I do know that if I was taking charge of two kids I would be making sure of what they had or didn't have while in my charge.

By the way you are right about those parents. They were report as saying that they were very proud of their kids.

At some point I would wonder how much I was doing this because I couldn't let go and was holding on to the illusion that she is going to get better, when it cannot happen.

The court previous decision clearly stated: Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs.


The parents offered her husband the rest of the settlement if he would let them have the custody. And a third party offered him another million (or was it 10 million). He is just not in it for the money and to get rid of her.

It is an awful PRIVATE situation that NEVER should have come to the public limelight. It SHOULD NEVER have come to the political arena. What I'm distressed about is the ridiculous meddling of Congress. This is NOT a legislative issue. It is a judicial issue for the STATE courts, and has been resolved there over and over again. Democrats are just letting Congressional republicans fuck with the separation of powers. I am so unbelievably disappointed in Congressional democrats, but I could see it in '06 "his Democrat voted for her to die!"

Does anybody know how long they were married before she had her heart attack? Since she was only 26 when it happened, am I correct in assuming that it wasn't for very long? Perhaps the husband refuses to relinquish her to her parents because she had had the eating disorder for a long time and he feels that they didn't help her then, why should they have the right to decide her fate now? I'm not saying that's the case, just a theory.

Just got this from my liberal partner in crime, SB.
----
Based on the recent weeks, we've learned some things about the US and its' government.

1) Jeb Bush, George W. Bush, and Tom Delay are all world renowned neurologists.

2) 22 successive court battles that all ended in exactly the same way means there is something wrong with the courts, not the Schindler's
case.

3) Mike is after money which is why he turned down 1 million dollars and 10 million dollars to sign over guardianship.

4) Congress and the State Legislature of Florida has nothing better to do than pry into the private medical affairs of others.

5) Pulling life support is bad in Florida when authorized by the legal next-of-kin, but pulling life support is good in Texas when you run out of money and the mother pleads not to pull the plug on her baby.

6) Medical diagnoses are best performed by watching highly editted videotape made by Randall Terry rather than in person by trained physicians.

7) Minimum wage making nursing assistants are more qualified to diagnose a persistant vegetative state than experienced neurologists.

8) Cerebral spinal fluid is a magical potion that can mimic the entire functions of a missing cerebral cortex.

9) 15 years in the same persistant state is not really enough time to make an accurate diagnosis.

10) A feeding tube that infuses yellow nutritional goop is not really "life support".

11) Jesus was wrong when he said that a man and woman should leave their parents and cleave only to each other.

12) Marriage is the most sacred of all unions, except when it isn't.

13) Interfering in a family's private tragedy is a great reason to cut short a vacation, but getting a memo that warns a known terrorist is
determine to strike inside the US is cause to relax and finish up some R&R.

14) Pro-lifers are really compassionate people which is why they are hoping that Michael Schiavo dies a horrible painful death.

15) The Supreme Court of the United States and the State Supreme Court of Florida mean "Maybe" when they are saying "No!"

16) Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia is a bleeding heart liberal.

17) 7 Supreme Court Justices were appointed by republican presidents, so it's Clinton's fault. ( )

18) A judge who makes rulings based on the law is obviously an atheist, liberal, democratic activist even though he is a conservative, republican, Southern Baptist.

The saddest part of this whole thing? Every one of those things is based on reality. Sad, sad reality.