The US Constitution calls for the separation of church and state. My question is this: How come I can go into a government building and see a Cross? A picture of Jesus? The 10 Commandments? The answer is simple. I can see all of these things in government buildings, especially courts, because our courts are violating the US Constitution.

Nobody has the right to put any sort of religion into a government run or owned building. It's outrageous that people can defend this. I have a question for those of you who are alright with the 10 Commandments in a court. Would you be alright if this same court put the Koran in view for everyone to see? The Hebrew Holy book?

Look, I am not offended when I see the 10 Commandments, as I am a Roman Catholic; however, it's against the US Constitution and it can offend people who aren't Christian or don't believe in God. When a government building has ANY religious symbol up, it's almost as if tax dollars are used to promote this religion. It isn't right and it should be stopped. I wish the ACLU good luck in getting every court and government building to take down all religious symbols. -Pat

Did u know that no where in the Constitution is there the words seperation of church and state! It was in a letter written by Jefferson and not in the Constitution.

Yes, the only part I disagree with is having to swear on the Bible, but just seeing something? Meh.

The First Amendment says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

What took u so long to respond? U had to go look it up or something? Where in that does it say seperation of church and state? The founding fathers put that in so there would not be only 1 religion in the U.S. They made it a law not to have just 1. That is what that means. Respecting an establishment of religion, they would respect all religion!

So what if their aren't the words "separation of church and state". The First Amendment guarantees the principle of the separation of church and state by implication, because separating church and state is what allows religious liberty to exist.

Nowhere in the Constitution will you find words like "right to privacy" or even "right to a fair trial." Does this mean that no American citizen has a right to privacy or a fair trial?

The Fifth Amendment provides that no person shall be held for "a capital or otherwise infamous crime" without indictment, be twice put in "jeopardy of life or limb" for the same offense, be compelled to testify against himself, or "be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law." The privilege against self-incrimination has been the center of a great deal of controversy as a result of the growth of Congressional investigations. The phrase "due process of law," which appears in the Fifth Amendment, is also included in the Fourteenth Amendment. As a result there has been much debate as to whether both amendments guarantee the same rights. Those in favor of what is termed fixed due process claim that all the safeguards applied against the federal government should be also applied against the states through the Fourteenth Amendment. The supporters of the concept of flexible due process are only willing to impose those guarantees on the states that "are implicit in the concept of ordered liberty."

The Sixth Amendment guarantees the right of speedy and public trial by an impartial jury in all criminal proceedings, while the Seventh Amendment guarantees the right of trial by jury in almost all common-law suits. Excessive bail, fines and "cruel and unusual" punishment are prohibited by the Eighth Amendment. The Ninth Amendment states that "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." READ UR CONSITuTION

The U.S is thankfully a secular state, Pat, no need to worry or get your panties up in a bunch. I don't know about crosses in public buildings, especially as they are a symbol of Roman Catholicism & this country was founded upon 'Protestant' Christianity; this should answer your question on why a Bible or Christian material & not a Qur'an in court.

The 'Churches' here have no direct or indirect say in political matters (e.g: the Pope has little to no influence in this country's political affairs), or do you think otherwise? Why a Qur'an instead of a Bible in court?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
Do I need to translate?
Congress will not support a government building that consists of any religious symbols.

Not necessarily the churches, but mainly these courts with the 10 Commandments or any other religious symbols. The Qur'an shouldn't be allowed either, but I'm saying this: If these courts wish to have us swear over the Christian Bible or have the 10 Commandments, than why don't they put every single religious symbol of every religion up? With that said, it'd be impossible to do that, so just having these Christian symbols makes those non-Christian uneasy and sometimes offended. -Pat

[/qb][/QUOTE]"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
Do I need to translate?
Congress will not support a government building that consists of any religious symbols. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Read the Bill of Rights. The founding fathers put it in so there would be freedom of religion! They came to this country so there would be freedom of religion. The government will not dispute a persons freedom of worship! Ask one of ur teachers about it. And like u said, why in almost every federal building in the US is there some sort of religious tone to them, whether it is the cross hanging on the wall or the 10 commandments? These buildings were built after the consitituion was written, so I guess all the builders were commiting federal crimes? If it were against the law they would not have been built. Hence it is not in the Bill of Rights!

He is checking to see what Hannity and Colmes say tonight. They are on till 10pm on cable here. So I bet you will see him back on after that show ends. Filled up with new ammo and snide comments. so put on your vests and take a pill for your nerves.

That is exactly what he is doing.

Actually, I've missed the whole show tonight.

Thats right u were watching the Basketball game

I'm gonna go with what DV said earlier about this and disagree with swearing on the Bible, but seriously, if your really going to protest a cross or the Ten Commandments being in a courthouse you have too much free time on your hand. I would not be offended by anything of another religion if it was somewhere. It's just so ridiculous.

Just a little nit-pickery here. THe Ten Commandments were given to Moses, and the whole episode takes place in the Old Testimate, therefore putting the Ten Commandments in a building is exactly like putting something from the Hebrew holy book.

And to extrapolate further, both Christianity and Moslem beliefs stemmed from the Old Testimate, therefore they all make use of the Ten Commandments either directly, as is the case with Christianity, or indirectly like in Moslem religions.

Besides, the statues of the Ten Commandments aren't the government's way of pushing religion. The Ten Commandments were an important step in the creation of modern law, much like Hamurabbi's Code of Laws, which are also in many court rooms.

Finally, the symbol of justice, you know, the blindfolded woman with the scales, comes from Greco-Roman mythology, thus it too is a religious symbol, so where's the protest about that? This is just a misguided attack on Christian religion that doesn't really have a lot of backing in logic.

What do you mean?

I think I know where this is going

I think I know where this is going [/b][/quote]Yeah, me too.

Exactly what I said. Do you think the court can legally display historical documents such as the Declaration of Independence? [/b][/quote]I think any parts of it that include God or anything with religion should be cut out. -Pat

You're in favor of censorship then? I'm surprised.

Censorship on government property when it comes to religion, yes.

What, exactly, is the harm in having something related to religion on government property?

I just can't comprehend how a plaque of the ten commandments or a cross is hurting/oppressing anyone.

It is not, so don't let some ass wipe run you around.
It only becomes a point if the government makes a statement for or against something. It can remain neutral and there is no harm or foul.

We had basically the same discussion around Christmas, when we debated the appropriateness of religious displays in government buildings.

Some of us, myself included, are of the opinion that while they don't "hurt" or "oppress" anyone, they can or may give the appearance of the government sanctioning or favoring one religion over another.

Well said, Plaw.