The last few weeks at my job I've been pressured to pretty much not talk so that I don't offend people. Some of my fellow employees have complained that my language is 'bad' and that I literally offend them. How can one word or phrase make it hard for someone to sleep at night or simply ignore someone?

I was talking to my one boss tonight and she even told me that people could sue me for saying 'bitch' or if I made a joke about someone's ass. She even said that people were complaining about the music I play in the BACK of the store AFTER we close when no customers are even in the store. Does this mean I could sue someone because I don't want to hear my best friend's Metallica CD? How about a co-worker's new Pop CD? My boss told me that those CDs are different because they don't swear. Tough shit. Oops. Whose going to have trouble sleeping tonight because I said that?

I want someone to tell me what part of 'F-U-C-K' makes them uncomfortable? I could understand if it's over used, i.e. 'This f-cking motherf-cker is a f-cking ass,' but what if it's just said once or if it's said on a CD? How is it personally going to offend you?

Why are curse words (I hate that title) any different then regular words? Why would it make President Bush or any other person less intelligent or immature because they decide to use a 'curse word?' I personally could relate to it a lot more. Do you all know how many political activists are ignored or call criminals because they 'curse?' Freedom of speech is one of the freedoms we have. Let's use it.

One of my New Year's Resolutions is to swear less. Does that mean I'm going to stop it completely? Fuck no. You have a better chance of seeing God. Happy New Year. -Pat

I've had this discussion before with members of what "constitutes" freedom of speech. Apparently, some believe that we do not have the right to say whatever we want without consequences (which to me, defeats the notion of freedom of speech). Anyways, to answer your question, we get so offended easliy b/c we are a nation of complainers. We cry, b*tch, and moan b/c we know if we do it enough we'll get what we want. People make us happy to shut us up and it's only getting worse. 1 of the things that pisses me off the most about people (besides people overly complaining) is the lack of politeness that people have. No one says 'Thank you' or 'Please' anymore. It's get outta my way or give me give me give me!

Well Patrick, in a work environment it is only proper to not refer to vocabulary that is known as "curse words". As a paid employee, your job is to serve your customer as best as you can, therefore your character must be somewhat elevated from that of the average person you meet on the street. I know it's tough to deal with people that make life hell for you and others, but you must find a way to control your emotions while you're on the clock. It's just the way the business works.

If you were constantly using foul language around your clients, it could very well make them uncomfortable, which is the last thing you want to do when trying to run a good business. This level of discomfort varies with people, and some of them take so personally that they sue. Think about the differences in the way Vito Corleone and Sonny Corleone conducted themselves in the company of clients. Sonny constantly used bad language, and he never gained the respect of other people the way Vito did. I know this may not be the best example, but just give it a little thought.

Others judge you by HOW you speak. Its one thing to be among close friends and run off at the mouth, but co-workers and other non-intimate people in your life deserve better. If you ever expect to advance above flipping burgers in your career you'd better tone down the street language; it has no place in a business setting.

I'd fire your ass in a New York minute if you played that cursing music in my store (even if it was after business hours). You show some respect to your co-workers, and you'll receive some, too.

What your boss told you is true ; you cannot joke about someone's ass, or constantly use curse words around co-workers and people as these actions can lead up to sexual harrasment complaints!

Yes we are afforded the right of freedom of speech, but that freedom does not allow you to offend other human beings nor does it allow you to stand in the middle of a crowd and yell fire! That freedom of speech is meant to allow one to voice thier feelings and opinions about government issues, topics, laws, etc. but in a non-confrontational or disrespectful way without causing someone to get hurt or causing a riot, disorder, etc. We have rights that many other countries do not have, but we must keep some order of assemblance when we excersize those rights or there would be anarchy!

In the area of common sense and common decency, would you want your 9 year old child to be subject to somenone using bad language around them or having them walk into a store with you and be subject to some song that uses a curse word in every other lyric? I know that I wouldn't go into that store ever again!

Pat, take it from the people who've experienced the path of working a job, having a business, and walking the walk of the business world and life itself. A person is judged by how they conduct themselves in a business atmosphere, let alone in everyday life itself, because the way that one conducts themselves in a business atmosphere is usually a reflection of who that person really is in thier everyday life, and the way that a person conducts themselves in general usually indicates the type of upbringing that that person may have had. Do yourself a favor and show some respect in the workplace. Remember it is not your right to work there, but it is a privaledge given to you by the owner of that business.


Don Cardi

Well said. The fact us, free speech should never be a excuse at your place of work. Restraint must be shown.

Pat, you're a younger version of me it's uncanny (hope that doesn't offend you :p . I used to share similar beliefs. But you learn to conduct yourself differently in different situations. If I'm drinking with my mates I can be a fucking crude bastard. If I'm at work I show more decorum, If I didn't I could be disciplined - and rightly so. It's a professional atmosphere and it should remain that way - whether you deal with customers or not.

Listen to the older, wiser members here. Cardi and SC are right.

On a side note, I worked for two years in a massive warehouse driving different kinds of trucks and stuff - very blue collar work. Now that was one place where we could get away with profanities and all kinds of banther.

But why? What makes that music disrespectful and no other music disrespectful? How can some 'curse words' show disrespect? Why can't the ability to curse show freedom of speech or something positive?

I didn't joke about someone's ass. I was just using that as an example, but why can someone sue me just for saying 'fuck?' That's absolutely stupid. If someone is on the same level as me and they just keep busting my balls and telling me to do their work and I'm just like, "Man, fuck off. That's your job." Why is that sexual harassment?

But that's an opinion. It says freedom of speech. It doesn't say for what.

That's the problem. Some of the people I work with are my close friends. -Pat

In defense to Patrick, if the employees are allowed to take turns listening to music, why can't Patrick listen to his own kind? Granted if he was told once to not listen to it b/c it offends people and continued to listen to it, than I could see that being a problem. But if it's just once or twice, why can't people just "tune it out" and not let it bother them. Why do we always have to suffer b/c somebody doesn't agree with something we are doing? Turn the other cheek!

There is a thing called bouderies and parameters! If I am listening to, let's say, a Frank Sinatra song or the Scarface Theme, and you are listening to a song that talks about shooting, killing cops, cursing, saying Mother F**ker, Whores, Bitches, etc, there is quite a difference! Your song has offensive language in it, the others don't! I don't believe that the Boss or the other co-workers are offended by the genre of music that is being listened to, but they are offended by the explisive content of foul language that is being sung! If a Frank Sinatra song had curses and explisive sexual references in it, then his music should be prohibited also in a place of business! Again, it's not the genre of music that is in question here, but the content of lyrics themselves.

Don Cardi

What if he got the "edited" version of the CD or better yet, what if he got something like an iPod? Problem solved right? But again, than Patrick is having to sacrifice. I understand perfectly what you're saying, but my thing is, simply why can't people tune it out? For example, if I'm at work and we're closing with no customers in the store and somebody puts in a country CD, I'd ask them if they would put something else in b/c I hate country, but I'm not going to say it offends me or I'm going to cry to management b/c I don't get what I want. I also need to know from Patrick if this music is played at a moderate level to himself & his friends in the back, or if it's played over some kind of intercom or what?

I let my boss set the volume on the boom box so that I know it's not too loud.

Patrick, what makes the music disrespectful is the content! The Lyrics! Cursing! Degrading of woman! As I said above it's not the genre of the music, but the content itself!

If you curse people around you in the business world, it is considered harrassment. If it is of a sexual nature, than it can be considered sexual harrassment. If you curse people around you, your gonna get your ass fired eventually and maybe even get it kicked in a little!

The freedom of speech right in the constitution is not a matter of opinion. It is specific in nature. Again, we all have the right to freedom of speech, but that does NOT give you the right to run into a crowded movie theater and falsly yell out fire and creat a panic. Parameters, bounderies! If you want to excersize your freedom of speech and walk up to someone and tell them to go F**k themselves, yes, in essence you have that right. But if you did that to me, than I would excerize my right to bear arms and shoot your ass for telling me that! So you see my point, if you don't use common sense and create parameters in regards to our rights and freedoms, than everyone would just excersize thier rights by thier own opinions and there would be anarchy!

Bottom line kid, you work for the boss. The boss owns the business. The boss makes the rules. The boss can tell you to get lost! One day if you own your own compnay or are in charge of one, than if you want to let the employees listen to offensive music, and allow them to curse at each other, etc. that will be your choice. But I promise you that if you run a business in that manner, you won't ever have quality people working for you!

Solution : Wear headphones!


Don Cardi

Your arguement is weak! The Genre of music is not offensive. The content is what is offensive. If that co-workers country music had sexual references in it, curses, foul language, degrading of woman lyrics, than you would have every right to complain. If Patrick listens to Rap music that does NOT contain cursing, degrading lyrics, etc. than I would be the first one to come to his defense and say he has the right to listen to that rap song just like the other guy has the right to listen to his country song! What is so hard for you guys to comprehend! CONTENT is offensive, not the genre or style!

Don Cardi

No I understand what you're saying Don Cardi, but again I will continue to say that if the boss chooses the level of how high or low the music is played, they should take it up with him & not Patrick. Why can't people just tune it out instead of infringing on Patrick's desire to listen to music. Also, would you say that the content of Christian lyrics is or is not offensive?

Hey Patrick! Glad to see you (and your thoughts ) back again.

Different things offend different people, yet certain words, for whatever reason have become "curse" words, as you say, and I imagine will always be offensive to many. It has nothing to do with a "part" of any word, right or wrong, it's simply become vulgar to most people.

I am sure students at my school would probably agree with you Pat, as far as freedom of music goes. However, even here, there are the guidelines of what music can be played, and, fair or not, at any school dance, the vulgarity even in music simply is NOT accepted. I know this is a school, but it applies to other work areas as well I'm sure.

As far as commenting on someone's ass? That's happened as well, with a pissed off father coming to school and actually involving the police over an inappropriate comment.

Hell, I've dealt with parents/students who are real SOB's and you don't think I wanna say "f**k off????? You bet, but I know I won't have a job if I do so.

I too am all for freedom of speech, but let me ask you..Although what happened at your workplace certainly isn't illegal in terms of the law (well, sexual harrassment could be), are you saying that anyone, anywhere should say anything to anybody at anytime and it would all fall under "freedom of speech?" That consideration of others feelings should never be taken into account?

There must be things that, be it words/actions or whatever, would offend you? Everyone is offended by something.

Trust me, as someone who has been in the work froce for a good number of years, there are rules everywhere you work, and like them or not, you need to follow them, if you want to get ahead and earn respect. It really is a part of life. And, having others respect is a real plus.

Why this post took me so long to write, I don't know.


TIS

Let me give you an example. I'm walking down the street in Pennsylvania and I see you and an older lady walking across the street. You see me and yell, "Yo, SC". I walk across the street to say hello and you introduce me to the lady. You say, "SC, this is my mom". I'm flabbergasted that such a young looking woman is your mother and I reply, "You mean this bitch is your mother"????

Are you gonna tell me that you wouldn't be insulted and pissed? Are you gonna tell me that your mother wouldn't be hurt? If that happened to me (and my mother) the guy that said that would be picking up his teeth off the street.

As far as the music at work goes - I believe a boss has the right to set standards as to what employees are allowed to listen to. If you're in an environment like Turi mentioned above (all male) then perhaps your style of music would be allowed. However if you work in a mixed environment I'd ban any cursing whether it was in music or just simple conversation. I've been through this personally; I was an overnight shift supervisor for a large retailer, and I oversaw a crew of 30 men and women stockers. We had a rough crew of guys, many of them young gang members. We allowed them to listen to their own music while they worked as long as it wasn't too loud (safety precaution in case someone made a p.a. announcement). One night one of the guys brought in some rap that contained a lot of cursing and one of the women complained about the language. I had to tell the guy to turn it off. He did so, but complained that others listened to their own kind of music (and he had to hear that). I replied that if he found their music offensive and we couldn't come to some sort of agreement on what was allowed I'd be forced to ban music for everyone. He got the message and I had no further trouble from him.

I think, in a nutshell, its all about being respectful of others. You may like that kind of music, and you may want to blast it while you're at home, but it has no place in a work setting.

The best thing to do Patrick is invest in a portable music device such as an MP3 or Minidisc player. I personally have a Minidisc player & I LOVE it to death! I use it all the time

:rolleyes: I cannot recall ever hearing curse words, lyrics degrading woman, offensive language, etc. in a truly religious song! :rolleyes:

Don Cardi

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if someone does not believe in God and someone is listening to a song that praises His name.

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if someone does not believe in God and someone is listening to a song that praises His name.

What about, "Silent Night, Holy Night"? :p

Now your changing the issue at hand altogether! Vulger lyrics are what was offensive to the boss and the workers at Pat's place of work. That is the issue!
If the music C-O-N-T-E-N-T is not vulgar, does not degrade woman, does not call for killing people, than I couldn't give a rat's behind what type of music it is, be it Rock and Roll, Rap, Disco, Pop, Christian, Hebrew, Greek, Italian, Suahili, Baby Songs, Jazz, etc.!
The style of music should not be offensive to anyone. The content and lyrics, if vulgar, is what makes the song become offensive to people!


Don Cardi

What about, "Silent Night, Holy Night"? :p [/b][/quote]Maybe the new rap version is sung that way!

Silent night my brother, all the hoes in the night, all is crazy man, all is pimpin man!
There are no virgins in this hood! Hoes and 38's so strong and so right!
Cause I'm from New Yak!


Don Cardi

So you're basically saying that only vulgarity offenses people and not religious songs? Oh how I wish that was true, I really do. And by using that example, I was not trying to change the issue. I was simply using it as a reference.

No, the issue at hand here was the music that Patrick was listening to that contained vulgarity! The issue here is not about religious songs! That's another issue.

But being that you now want to talk about religious music let me ask you this: Why do people find the mention of Jesus, Abraham, Mohammed, or Buddah offensive? These same people, not all of them mind you, but most of them are the ones that yell about civil rights, freedom of speech, censorship in music and movies, freedom of choice and then in the same breath find it offensive and scream bloody murder when they hear a religious song in public or a Movie like Passion Of The Christ gets huge press!


Don Cardi

I couldn't agree with you more on this issue! But you still have failed to answer my question. Would you still say that Patrick needed to stop listening to a Christian CD if it offended someone?

I would say that if a Christian song were the issue here, than the boss would have to ban ALL religious music from being played in the workplace and not jut single out a specific religion! So in reality the boss in Pat's place should NOT ban Rap music, or Rock and Roll, what he should ban is ANY music, no matter what style, that contains VULGER language.

Don Cardi

The issue here is not the music as much as it is following the guidelines set by management. It is up to Patrick to fit in with his coworkers and the workplace, not for the workplace to change for Patrick and his wants. The manager must protect all employees and make the workplace fit for all. I guess it is hard to keep the entry level worker happy, so managers may bend a little bit more then in a more professional environment.

It may have been a mistake to let any employee do these things even if there is no customers in the place. After all, other employees still have rights in the workplace, not just the pushy ones.

I think you were lucky to have her take you aside and talk about this. I would bet it will be first warning, second warning and then you are let go. Building a good case for dismissal is key.

I want someone to tell me what part of 'F-U-C-K' makes them uncomfortable? -PAT

If you really don't know the answer to this then maybe you aren't really ready for the business world.

Good Luck in the future. It is a tuff world out there in business and it only gets that much harder if you buck heads with everyone.

Pat and Irish, in short as DC says, boss sets the rules in the work place for the kind of music you can listen to or the way you should handle the clients. You want the paycheck, you stick to your job and follow the rules. Personally while I'm working I don't want to listen to any kind of music. Now if my coworkers listen to some kind of music, I really can't tune out and I get a headache. I ask them to wear headphones and if I'm having a slow day and want to listen to some music I do as well. And if I were you I would not argue with my boss to ask why this and why that.
Pat, if your freedom of speech lets you tell people to F-off then, they as well are free to punch you in face and boss is free to let you go, so it works both ways.
One other thing; your friends at work are your colleagues in the office and they should be treated with the rules and codes required in there.
You are young and I understand the way you feel but I hope you listen to those who have worked a few years more and do not have to learn it the hard way.